Can ANYBODY solve this bizarre problem?!?!?!???

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BochumBass
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Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:10 pm

I'll try and keep this as brief as I can, but there's quite a lot of background to this one so sorry if it gets long-winded...ANY help would be much appreciated.

Right, here goes...BMW 316i, 1990 M40 engine - when I picked the car up about 3 months ago the seller said it had a dodgy idle but he'd set the mixture and got it right. It was ok for a while but one night I filled the tank up and as soon as I started the engine the idle went insane, straight upto about 1200 and then down to 500ish, repeatedly...I drove off and everytime I came to idle it did the same (drove ok though, but not perfect, bit of a miss-fire). AFter 5 mins or so it started stalling every time I stopped to idle, but started up again ok and this continued till I got home.

Next day, car wouldn't start. A week or so later I called my regular mechanic out and he sent an auto-electrician, who said the car was over-fueling, changed the blue temp sender and put new plugs on, got it running and took it in too have a good look at. 1 week later, car was running but still had same idle problem.

I then took it to my usual mechanic, who cleaned the ICV up, which made a huge difference, and as he was going on holiday told me to try and get hold of a good AFM as the one on the car was knackered (turning the screw was having no effect so it couldn't be adjusted, and he reckoned it was running too slow). I got a working AFm (cheers Chris). put it on and all seemed well. The idle speed was way too fast (1300 ish), which I was going to leave until my mechanic got back from his hol as I didn't want to mess around with the screw myself.

Anyway, went out in the car a few times, all's well (apart from high idle with a slight missfire which I hoped might be down to the idle speed).
I've just been to put some petrol in the car again and IT'S ALL GONE DAFT AGAIN! Same idle problem as before, all over the place and very nearly (but not quite) stalling at idle (and when changing down in the lower gears).

Has anybody got any idea what's going on because I'm at my wits end and will be torching the b@stard thing soon!!!! :x

(I hope this all makes sense, I'm fuming but trying to type coherently!)
BochumBass
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Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:12 pm

To sumarise, it all goes wrong when I put petrol in!
Ant
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Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:22 pm

when you remove the filler cap, is there a hiss of pressure rushing into the tank dude ?
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BochumBass
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Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:57 pm

I've just been and checked, there wasn't any sound at all when I removed then cap...
Speedtouch
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Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:06 pm

Could be worth disconnecting the battery for a while to reset the ECU...
///M aurice
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Bob_S
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Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:13 pm

sounds like there is no pressure in the system hence the missing.
or the fuel pump could be on it's way out, does it hum a lot from behind the drivers seat?
Bollocks to this 24v scrap!
BochumBass
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Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:22 pm

It did cross my mind to dis-connect the battery, so I've done that...how long should I leave it before I re-connect and try again?


Bob_S...there is a pretty constant whining/humming sound, sometimes more of a "pulseing" sort of hum. I've not been able to work out where it's coming from though, it was one of the things on the list to sort out once the current problem gets solved! It's pretty loud though...once i've put the battery back on I'll try and see if it's coming from the fuel pump (if the car starts!)
Speedtouch
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Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:24 pm

Dunno, around an hour or so should be enough, or you could leave it overnight if you've no urgent need to use the car.
///M aurice
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BochumBass
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Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:01 pm

Right...update, I've just re-connected the battery (only left it 45 mins or so but was eager to see if the whining noise was coming from the fuel pump area)...
The car started but wasn't running well at all, spluttering and popping at a very weak sounding 600-700 rpm. There is a definate constant whining/humming sound coming from the fuel pump area, and not from anywhere near the engine (which is how it sounds when driving). I also opened the filler cap again after stopping the engine and still no hiss.

Does this sound like the fuel pump is basically frigged? Is there any explanation why this happens when I fill the tank even though it was running fine before?

Thanks for the responses so far, any further help is much appreciated!
Speedtouch
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Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:11 pm

You didn't put diesel in by accident did you?! Could be a blocked fuel tank breather, assuming it runs OK with an emptier tank. Certainly sounds like it's overfuelling otherwise - maybe you need to replace the relay that drives the fuel pump...
///M aurice
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Speedtouch
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Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:13 pm

I just thought - try running it then undoing the fuel cap to see if it makes any difference to the running!
///M aurice
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BochumBass
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Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:20 pm

Ok, I'll try that tomorrow...and it defo wasn't diesel!!!

As for the fuel tank breather...it does run better with an emptier tank, it's filling the tank that has started the trouble off both times...cleaning the ICV seemed to sort it last time, and it's been fine since until tonight when i put fuel in...what's puzzling me is that why would cleaning the ICV cure something (well, improve it) that is caused by filling the petrol tank? :cry:
Speedtouch
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Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:24 pm

Perhaps for some reason the extra weight of a full tank of fuel is forcing its way to the engine at too high a pressure, causing flooding?

Could be that your fuel filter is due for replacement - if it's clogged you could be getting fuel surges.
///M aurice
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BochumBass
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Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:31 pm

Sounds reasonable to me...I could try syphoning/pumping some fuel out and see if there is any change.


Would it be possible for the fuel pump to struggle more with a large amount of petrol in the tank..? There is a definate constant whine from that area but maybe the addition of fuel sends it a bit daft? (clutching at straws now!)
BochumBass
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Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:35 pm

I think I might have (with help from the above responses!) traced this problem to the fuel pump, I've just got home from work so went to start the car after it's been sat snice last night.

It started 1st time and the revs went up to 1500 but dropped down to a spluttery 600/700 straight away. I could hear a definate loud whirr from the fuel pump, so I whacked the cover under the rear seat a couple of times and the revs picked upto a steady 1300ish. The constant whirr became more of a quick pulse.

I then took the car round the block and it drove ok (i bit hesitant in lower revs but ok past 2K or so) but when I stopped and idled the dodgy idle and loud whirr gradually returned. After about 5 mins I got back home and the idle was shocking (spluttering and jumping between 500/1000) and whacking the pump cover had no effect.

Does this basically sound like a fooooked pump, or is there anything else in that area that whines/whirrs?
And is it known for a worn out pump to struggle more with a new load of fresh petrol?

Any help would again, be great...I don't want to fork out for a new pump if it's likely to be something else! :mad:
Speedtouch
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Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:45 pm

You could try cleaning the electrical connections to the pump (with emery paper/contact cleaner spray), also looking at the fuel pump relay and fuse while you're at it.

Also try taking the cover off and whacking the pump itself next time!
///M aurice
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JohnH
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Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:46 pm

I'd change the fuel filter first - then the fuel pump (esp if you can borrow one to try). They're fairly easy and cheap-ish to rule out.
BochumBass
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Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:57 pm

320iSE wrote:You could try cleaning the electrical connections to the pump (with emery paper/contact cleaner spray), also looking at the fuel pump relay and fuse while you're at it.

Also try taking the cover off and whacking the pump itself next time!
I would have whacked the pump but didn't have a screwdriver handy to get the cover off...so the cover got it :D
I've checked the fuse, that's ok but I havn't checked the relay. Next job...then the filter...

Cheers lads
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