E36 M3 3.0

[Theo]

Seem to be a cheap, fast car, are they any good? What is fuel consumption like? Are they easily tuned? Are there known problems associated with the model like there is on the EVO variant?

Opinions please!

[e36boy]

Nothing to do with your question mate, But I know insurance is alot better on the 3.0. I've had quotes on both, Just to see if i could afford the insurance if I ever wanted to buy one. Got quoted just over Ԛ£1000 on the 3.0 and nearly Ԛ£3000 on the 3.2 EVO. Got quotes off confused.

[e30bmlover]

apparently if your not too fussed about bhp figures the 3.0 m power engine is suppost to be the strongest out of the 2. one of the bmw magazines done a buying guide for them. 286bhp isnt that bad outof a 3.0. and there is not an evo varient that i am aware of.

[maxfield]

3.2 supposedly has vanos failure but this is only if the car hasn't been looked after.the 3litres are suppose to be better with vanos. I believe there are to types of 3.0 OBI and OBII. OBI is the earlyer models which is easyer to tune. Erm don't know much else about these

[Theo]

I've also read that they are a stronger unit and more likely to produce factory power, but I was hoping there would be some people on here who have first hand experience of the car. Have a feeling it will be hard to track down an unabused example.

[tim_s]

i have quite a bit of experience of these cos my bro nearly bought one and a mate owned one for a little while. Things that most seem to suffer from (found this when looking for cars) include things like knackered fuel injection (lambda probes, air leaks, TPS, coil failures etc), check for rich running, firing on 5 cyls etc, stumbling on throttle. Tbh all these things are easily fixed.
also many had fairly major oil leaks (esp around head area and oil cooler area-check for damage there). rust issues too (they are 10+ yrs old now). then usual e36 stuff - coupe windows, hair conditioning probs, Z axle bushes, front balljoints etc.
I'm sure there's more i've forgotten. I know that sounds really negative, but I actually think they are damn good cars. Worth being extra vigilent that the engine is strong, no knocking, excessive oil use etc. - as they rev so high and piston speed is so high etc, if not properly maintained the engines can get screwed.

I've not seen a b30 with a knackered VANOS unit, so im guessing its not as common as with the EVOs. 5 spd G/Bs are shared with other E36 models so if that breaks its much cheaper to replace etc too.
hth

[Theo]

Thanks very much for the info Tim, all very interesting to know. Will have to start keeping an eye out for them.

Theo

[M5pilot]

Very well balanced and fairly quick car cars.

Engines can be heavily upgraded to give really insane performance.

I have a customer with a 3.0, he has carbon airbox with AlphaN type setup and some cams - it is so bloody quick!

Sal

[dan_emaps]

M3 EVO's tend to throw vanos units whatever i'm afraid, double vanos is a definate weak point on the EVO, the single vanos on the 3.0 M3 is alot more reliable, which is definately a plus point, also imo the 5 spd box is nicer to use than the 6 speed, and yet another thing, EVO's never make 321bhp, 295bhp would be a good one, anything over that would be very good going. I've seen them run as little as 280. The 3.0s are also guilty of this to a point but are better, 280bhp would be a good one, 300bhp is easily attainable with a decent intake, chip and maybe a good zorst.

The only problem you have is that the latest car your gonna get is 1996.. its hard to find really clean ones these days, ALOT of dogs about im afraid

things to check, rear top mounts, trailing arm bushes, prop mount etc.

the only thing i feel is wise to change is the suspension, these cars arent fantastic in the handling department, certianly roll alot and its likely to be tired on most of the cars you find. Something worth budgeting for (koni adjustables and eibach springs works great for everyday) unless your lucky enough to find one with new suspension anyway

All in all a very good, strong coupe which still has a certain class and is as affordable as ever, alot of performance for your money

Good luck

[paulg390]

Hi, my twopenneth worth.. which pretty much backs up the above comments
I had a 1995 Non EVO for about 2 years. Decided on non EVO for the reasons mentioned above, EVO allegedly has weaker g/box, Vanos problems, insurance IS higher, mpg is worse etc and performance only slightly better. My non EVO ran perfectly for 2 years, 20k miles , but aircon did pack up right at the end. Condenser. I was warned about oil leaks so did check carefully... Sold it to a BMW mechanic who bit my hand off so I presume it was good one. Was about 6 years ago now though... I think if you can get one with FBMWSH that would be the safest...
By contrast a mate bought an EVO (with roughly same mileage and FBMWSH) shortly after me and he had vanos problems, oil leaks, brake calipers needin replacement, rough running and about 5mpg less.....

But as someone already said finding a good one may be a challenge now !

[Theo]

Wow, thanks for the responses, some great information, are there any special options to look out for. Was traction control available on the 3.0?
What are the worthwhile mods on the car, especially with regards to suspension, are Bilstien as good for the E36 as they are for the E30?

[domross]

Sorry for being thick....but wot exactly is the vanos??

[e30bmlover]

VANOS (Variable Nockenwellen Steuerung) is an automobile variable valve timing technology developed by BMW. VANOS varies the duration of the intake valves by moving the fulcrum of the camshaft. BMW also offer "double" VANOS, which operates on the exhaust camshaft as well.
and yes the 3.0 m3 has traction control(you need it!!!)

[dan_emaps]

Does it? I didnt think the 3.0 had traction?

I know the Evo doesnt, although it does have a ecu controlled 'limiter' in 1st, i thought the 3.0 was just an LSD and nothing else though?

I'm questioning myself here now lol!! sure they didnt? same as 95' 328i sports, ASC only came in on late 1995/1996, same time the Evo came out...

[steerfromtherear]

No e36 m3 had traction control that's for a fact not until the e46 was it available afaik (too much money and hassle with the itb's I guess)
Both 3.0 and evo had lsd.

I had a e36 3.0 m3 for a while. Most the usual stuff has been mentioned.
They actually have pretty damn good fuel economy for what they are. I found mine to be more economical than my e36 328 and both my e30 325's. It averaged 28.8 mpg on a 1200mile trip to the ring round it and back again which wasn't exactly a fuel saving experience

The 3.0's are miles cheaper to insure for some unknown reason, evo's are often twice the insurance

Worth noting is the m3 (either of them) can become quite expensive to maintain.
A lot of the parts are m3 specific and often are stealer only parts. For example a e36 front bottom arm costs around Ԛ£20 quid iirc from gsf.
Gsf don't stock m3 arms(no-one does, believe) so main dealer only item at Ԛ£145ish each

If the lambda sensor goes (common mot failure) there are 2 of them and they cost a fortune as well
The list goes on. a lot of people are attracted to the 5k price tag now but if you can't afford the upkeep then the apparent affordability goes out the window.

3.0's are simple to tune to match an evo's power as most evo's don't make their quoted 321bhp normally hovering around the 300-310 mark.
3.0's generally respond well to an induction kit and chip. If you choose the right ones then over 300bhp is normally very acheivable (315 has been seen a few times with just these mods but rr accuracy is a whole other debate) gruppe m replica, or dave f kit for induction, viper chips are generally good but I do know of a viper extreme with a 8100 limit killing one 3.0

Exhausts are pretty good stock so not a lot to be found there.
Fan delete, underdriven pulleys, aircon and secondary air pump delete's all free's up some of the horses wasted before.

I personally wouldn't buy an evo as the advantages of them are far outweighed by the disadvantages. Vanos and smg are far too expensive problems when you own a 7k car.
One thing to remember though is that people talk about the evo not being that much quicker, well first off from stock it is quicker, but beyond that is handles better and stops better due to revised and uprated suspension and brakes.
If you want to better the Vanos suffering evo then these things have to be taken into account.

Hth

[Andyboy]

EVO's never make 321bhp

Yes they do. A well run in Evo on 99 octane fuel set up exactly right (valve clearances, throttle linkage etc) does a solid 315-320 bhp all day long. A slightly wanky example on 95 ron Tesco fuel won't. There's a lot of bullshit about these but I've seen plenty do 315 bhp plus on Noble's dyno.
On this same dyno the best 3.8 M5's do 340 bhp whereas 'off colour 'examples do about 310-320.
BMW do not exaggerate power figures - by law in Germany they are simply not allowed to and when the ADAC power test a car at random and find a power discrepancy of more than 5% the fines are enormous.

[Davenotouring]

So a well-run in EVO running NINETY-NINE octane may make just below the power specified, as you mention, but it's still not the 321bhp quoted! How many nowadays are in great fettle and run 99 octane?! Hmmm. The hands many are in it's unlikely.

Three of my mates had/have these, two are ok, one flies. That is the one putting out close to 320bhp. It pulled convincingly on the others. The others felt like nothing special, which my Civic pretty much sat with! Embarrassing!

[steerfromtherear]

My friend has got a civic v-tech (the proper 160 bhp one, shape after yours) which he has spent some serious money on.

Coilovers, polybushed, engine mods putting him closer to 200bhp than not and that still wouldn't come close to the m3?

[e30bmlover]

My friend has got a civic v-tech (the proper 160 bhp one, shape after yours) which he has spent some serious money on.

Coilovers, polybushed, engine mods putting him closer to 200bhp than not and that still wouldn't come close to the m3?

no mate it wont. i would have thought the e30 m3 would see it off (215bhp) you dont really wonna go raceing against an e36 m3 be it 3.0 or 3.2, just goes to show...... you cant beat bavarian muscle. does your friend feel gutted???? i mean the fact that he has blown all that money on it and it wont beat an m3. he should have saved that money and bought a car that will do the job. my 2p.

[steerfromtherear]

No he doesn't mind he wanted a Civic so that's what he bought. His has spent all his money wisely on proper mods and I bet his Civic could cause a lot of motors (m3's included) some grief on the twisties.

You got to think about the amount of money VW enthusaiasts put into beetles and campers just to make them quick enough to keep up with modern traffic, they could have bought an astra but that's not the point is it.

[dan_emaps]

EVO's never make 321bhp

Yes they do. A well run in Evo on 99 octane fuel set up exactly right (valve clearances, throttle linkage etc) does a solid 315-320 bhp all day long. A slightly wanky example on 95 ron Tesco fuel won't. There's a lot of bullshit about these but I've seen plenty do 315 bhp plus on Noble's dyno.
On this same dyno the best 3.8 M5's do 340 bhp whereas 'off colour 'examples do about 310-320.
BMW do not exaggerate power figures - by law in Germany they are simply not allowed to and when the ADAC power test a car at random and find a power discrepancy of more than 5% the fines are enormous.

Thats great dude but as has been said its still not 321bhp and with our fuel it won't make that power.

However i don't think its an arguable subject due to the fact all these figures are recorded on dyno's.. and we all know how much rolling roads can vary..

But, in my opinion, the e36 m3, evo nor e46 m3 meet the power figures they claim on average.

As for the Civic/m3 thing.. i see no reason why the Civic couldnt hold pace if the cars were moving, 200bhp Civic probably around a ton kerb weight, against a 1.5 ton 300bhp car with higher transmission losses, power to weight would say these cars would be evenly matched in certain circumstances.

[Davenotouring]

My friend has got a civic v-tech (the proper 160 bhp one, shape after yours) which he has spent some serious money on.

Coilovers, polybushed, engine mods putting him closer to 200bhp than not and that still wouldn't come close to the m3?

Maybe he can't drive then chap. Cos the guy I was going against can, if you have seen the videos you'd see that too!

It's not v-tech, it's vtec, v-tech is a childs computer.

[steerfromtherear]

V-tech v-tec it's all the same to me fwd ricers don't interest me much tbh.

Fair enough if you say it is as quick who am I to argue.
I can't see that driver ability is going to make a blind bit of difference though when talking about straight line speed, which we were I think.

If he can drive competently he can drive well enough for a straight speed run.

[Davenotouring]

I'm no ricer, that's like saying 'Fu**ing BMW drivers' as many do. Generalisation.

I like my Civic because it's quick, light, and reliable. I'm not a ricer with neons and shit.

Have you been to Santa Pod or similar? And seen that straight line 'racing' isn't as clear cut as people say.

[steerfromtherear]

No I wasn't having a pop at you personally chap, I don't like fwd anything tbh just not me.
Ricers or otherwise. I meant it as in I am not interested hence why I didn't know the correct terminology for it.

I know what you are saying about the pod as well but it's pretty plain to me if I am sat at 40mph entering a duel carriageway next to my civic driving friend (both of us as lacking in ability as the other lol) and I boot it (in the m3 which I don't own anymore btw) I was patently quicker by a fair shot.

I, like yourself, wasnt not talking hypotheticaly (sp?) I was referencing a particular event.

[Davenotouring]

I understand what you are saying mate, I think you should have a go at driving a well setup track prepped one though! But then not everyone likes the same things and I appreciate that. I love RWD too though!

[steerfromtherear]

That was my point though Dave I would consider my friends Civic to be a well set up one.
He has spent some serious money on proper mods, a spec list to die for I would imagine, not one of them mods has been big speakers or neons either lol.

Still as you say different strokes for different folks. I personally don't know how you could go back to fwd considering you obviously knew what to do with rwd, judging by the sig pic anway.

Since I got into drifting I couldn't contemplate owning fwd again.

[Simon13]

Dave your too nice!

[dan_emaps]

That was my point though Dave I would consider my friends Civic to be a well set up one.
He has spent some serious money on proper mods, a spec list to die for I would imagine, not one of them mods has been big speakers or neons either lol.

Still as you say different strokes for different folks. I personally don't know how you could go back to fwd considering you obviously knew what to do with rwd, judging by the sig pic anway.

Since I got into drifting I couldn't contemplate owning fwd again.

3 words.. lift-off oversteer i've gone FWD then RWD then FWD then RWD again with my most recent cars and have to say i enjoy a good front wheel drive car just as much as a good rear wheel drive. Each have their own ways of entertaining

[steerfromtherear]

Good point my favourite fwd's that I have driven include the pug 106 gti and an Alfa 146 2.0ti both very lively at the rear.

[Davenotouring]

Yes, I have a 106GTi at the moment, it is quite mad.

I love drifting too, as you can see.

Simon13....yes I am lovely.

Here is what can be done in FWD as well as RWD...

[Demlotcrew]

I can confirm that Daves Civic Vtech is very quick and can easily sit with a 3.0 E36 M3.

Andrew

[Davenotouring]

Andy, not you as well! VTEC!! hehe!

At lower speeds this is BTW. And he does pull slightly, in which case Andy yours is definatley on par, seeing as it's a bit quicker than mine. We need to have another play since you've fiddled with yours recently!

[325eye]

Just to support Andy and his statement. Once such rolling road session at John Noble's, was my mate Dave's MZ3. It ran 333hp on the day on 95ron, standard car:







It was the same day i ran my 12 month old Saxo VTR which made 101 hp [should be 100] and Bob Whiffin ran his stock 318is and managed 140 i think. So the rollers were as good as accurate, some M power seems to be better than others

[Demlotcrew]

lol trying to see if you would notice