quicky e36 323 or 325

[appletree]

Right am sure some of you have read my post about putting a 2.8 in an e30 but i was calling round some scrappers and breakers to day and i was looking around Ԛ£1200-Ԛ£1500 for the engine, loom, all ancileries and ECU.

Now te question!

i rang my local and he's got a 323 in and said Ԛ£250 for the whole car? its been in a heavey arse ender but the front is mint?

would there be any thing wrong with putting the 323 in instead? i know its abit less power but its pritty cheap? dont you think?

[appletree]

Any one??? if this would be a good conversion i need to go and put my name on it tomorrow!!

[Chris-W]

I have to say I'd keep the M42.

[tim_s]

323 can be made pretty rapid in the same way as the 2.8, its basically a short stroke 2.8 with crappier fuel pressure, injectors, cams etc iirc. my old man has one with 150k on it, doesnt miss a beat. i like them.

[320Touring]

as chris says, stick with the m42 and spend the cash on that instead

[Turbo-Brown]

Thought the 2.3 was like 170bhp or something?

Might as well just got for a 2.5 M20 if that is the case?

[appletree]

Ya it is.

323-2494cc 24v 171bhp 181lbf.ft 0-60-8sec
325-2494cc 24v 192bhp 181lbf.ft 0-60 8sec
328-2793cc 24v 193bhp 207lbf.ft 0-60 7.2 sec

it just seamed like a cheap way to get the engine it would have the 36 rack aswell??

[tim_s]

the 323 is restricted out of the box, just like the 2.8. It's got plenty of potential with just new manifold, tb and remap. It's not a 2.3, its a 2.5. the 170bhp figure is conservative, the cams and the mapping and the inlet manifold etc all restrict the car. still a good engine.
You could always get that, buy my 330i pistons then get a 330 crank and voila, 3 litres that is assuming its an alusil block you're buying.

[appletree]

Ya:lol:, supose i could

i'am still trying to work out whats the best thing to do i want to know all my options, a conversion would be brilliant but for the amount of Ԛ£Ã”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£ i would spend i coulds do alot with a M42 an still have a realy good motor

what would the price/gains of

BBTB
Proper remap
cams
exhaust

i could also try and go down the throttle body route, like we spoke about tim.

i know even all of the above still would'nt touch a 2.8 but it would be a lot of high revving fun!! its the kick in the arse of the IS power delivery i love most!!

[jmc330i]

If you went for the 323i engine (well whole car) as its cheap enough, you could move upto to the 2.8 engine without too much hassle at a later date as the hard work would already be done.

You would get everything you need, engine, box, loom ECU etc, but also the E36 rack not to mention the E36 front struts - you would be half way to a 5 stud conversion and all for 250 notes

If I wasnt so far from you, Id have the 323i at that price and convert my touring.

[Sharabi]

the 323 is excellent (i'm biased as i own one)
170BHP out the box, but following mods mean lots more power
Modified 325 manifold, (guy off e36coupe forum, usernames Alpina527 not sure if hes on this forum too) - Biggest difference to BHP
BBTB (as above) - car lot smoother with it
PRICES for above i am not 100% but contact him.
Remap (e-maps.co.uk are a company i have heard of) again contact directly
Exhaust - from engine manifold (a 328 one fits straight on circa Ԛ£60/70 from scappers)
Induction Kit - I got mine from Chromeline Design - GruppeM Replica, sorry but cannot rember what price i paid.

Basically a nicely tuned 323 your looking at about 215/220bhp if not a little more.

When mods are done in theory the 323 should be quicker than a 325. Also remeber that the 323 is a newer engine aswell.

HTH

[EndaW]

The 323 will give 175hp on a stock car (should be 170hp but many give more than stock) and can be live mapped to give 190hp no problem.
Change the intake manifold ( alpina527@aol.com ) and your over the 200hp reliable mark.

[tim_s]

Although I agree that there's more power than the 170bhp in there with bolt-ons, I don't see any reason why the M52B25 will outperform the M50B25.
The M50 has wilder cams, higher fuel pressure, bigger injectors etc, the bore /stroke/CR/valve size are the same. on these grounds, i don't reckon doing bolt-ons to a 323 m52 imo won't give you 25/30bhp over an m50, or that the engine has more potential than the m50. I think on rollers that would give a 323 215/220bhp (i.e. optimistic), a standard or lightly tweaked M50 would give similar figures. Basically I think the truth of the matter is you'd need to do some work to the engine itself, not playing with bolt-ons, to get a m52b25 to out-perform an m50b25, as out of the box the m50 is the more performance-oriented engine.

There's also a few gay things they did on the 323 like plastic bits everywhere instead of the alloy you get on the M50 - such as tstat housing, oil filter housing etc. and the diff is far too long (meaning that on the road the 325 will always be faster).

for you though matt i think the biggest advantage of the m52 is prob the weight. I think the M52B25 would be nice in an e30, makes a nice noise, goes well, does well on fuel etc. just use a much shorter diff and an m20 exhaust, and find an m50 inlet manifold and fit that (this is what ian - alpina sells). with the engine out it should be a lot easier to fit. rememeber to budget for a new timing chain too dude while the engine's out.
as for bolt-ons on the m42, i think there's a few poinies in there but not loads. chip is the biggest one, a good one I'm sure can give you 10bhp.
have a good think about it all dude, if you wanted throttle bodies for the m42 i could probably build you a set and help you with MS.

[dan_emaps]

Right, how old is the donar car? remember early 323s suffered from nikisil just the same as early 328s, people are correct in saying that if its a 96 or whatever with 100k that its unlikely to go, but i still wouldnt want one as a tuning base. check to see if the block has been changed.

As has been mostly said by Tim, its a 2.5 with a 2.0 inlet manifold, same as the 328, its not just a m50 with a small manifold on it though, there are other dfferences, but basically the same. I used to work alongside Simon at Emaps so can tell you now that these engines are capable of 215bhp+ with basic mods (bbtb, m50 mani, decent induction, remap) if its a good engine go for it.. i think theres very very little difference bwtween a 325 and a 323 imo.. the m50 has abit more top end poke but the 2.0 manifold improves torque. Case and point would be that 2 friends raced at santa pod on sat, (one has a 325 the other a 323) the m50s best was a 15.3.. m52 15.2.. hardly anything between, with the m52 actually doing better.

Also i've never seen a 323 run 170bhp, infact out of the ones i've seen rolling roaded i havent seen anything under 180...

[appletree]

i dont know about the mileage but the car is an "R" plater

i might have to get another e30 to do this converion to at a later stage and do some bolt on mods to my IS as the more i think about it might be abit too nice to start molesting it! ( i didn't mean that in a big headed way). maybe that would be better? build it for the track so i dont have to worry about insurance and possible reliability issues or the time scale.

my car is going to be off the road during winter which was what gave me the idea to build an engine as it would then just be a case of dropping it in the summer and setting it up but from the people i've spoken to these conversions seam to take alot longer than you think aroun a year, especialy if you want tit to look factory when you finish it.

if i got a 2nd e30 then it wouldn't matter how long it took as i would still be able to have fun driving mine.

and also, alot of power is fun but you wouln't realy be able to use it to its full potental on the road safely, i also need my licence for my job.