2.7 or 3.5

[Simon13]

well if we go buy jimbobs old 2.7 which was DIY built by adam that made 200bhp.

all he had on top of the basic 2.5 route was a cam, cone filter with heatshield,zone 2.7 chip and btb first generation 6 branch.

I recon if it was done well u'd see 190bhp and torque which was what my *cough needs some attention alpina engine is putting out . And that shifted nicely and alot quicker than my old sport without the fuss lol.

[dazleeds]

hmmmm 190 brake

was hoping for a bit more than that tbh

220+would be nice

i suppose 190 as a starting point would be cool but would def like a bit more poke when funds allow

[Simon13]

if u have about 4k Daz then u might get 220bhp, but thats major head work with bigger valves, spikey cam. ITB's tasty manifold custom pistons so u don't need a vernier pulley all sorts of other money munching things. Then all the labour to build it.

Hartge H27 SP 220bhp(was the same as there normal 2.7 but with individual throttle bodies aswell) and racing dynamics made a 2.7 with 218 bhp but not sure if it has itb's. Alpina only managed 210bhp!

U have to build the bottom end up so u can measure accurately how much the block needs taking off the top

[Demlotcrew]

Si i have seen pics of the H27SP engine bay and i dont think it had ITBs.

Looking at the pics it looks like a custom inlet manifold.

[Davenotouring]

So you are seriously telling me a m20 engine is better than the m50? HHHmmmmm

WHEN did I say better?

[Simon13]

oh really? must of really reworked it to get that extra 10bhp though surely

[oze30]

Right.. So decking the block is the way to go.

What would I be expecting with:

decked block, 3325 head/cam/pistons/inlet, and magnex 6 branch, BBTB and the rest as per eta?

And are eurocarparts/gsf good fro internals? or should i shell out for genuine?

[dazleeds]

so i guess ill have to have 190 then

and get saving for the btb manifold then and whatever other boltons can help with power delivery rather than trying to add more

oh well musnt complain as 200bhp on a sport engine cant be sniffed at i guess

[Ant]

you could gain a little more oomph using some total seal rings, not cheap though but very effective.

the 8.8:1 later pistons will give 9.5:1 CR with the stock piston crown to deck clearance and squish, more power will require an additional compression hike but you'll need to be cerful unless you plan to run Ultra/Super whatever unleaded over the stock 95 ish ron.

288/272 cam is strongly advised, BBTB and 6 branch, well its criminal not too.

anymore requires a lot more Ԛ£Ã”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£ 190- 210 bhp could cost anywhere from 1K upwards

a 2.7 is 8% bigger capacity, evan giving 190 bp vs the stock 173( claimed) thats a power gain of 10%, so the efficiency is improved.

[M5pilot]

If someone is going to bother doing a 2.7, for FFS buy some custom lightweight pistons for Ԛ£400 which will give a nice high CR.

Spend Ԛ£500 on a proper head job like that on PLayer6's car, get a 284/272 and you'll see 210+ BHP quite easily.

The Alpina C2, GUG and many other 2.7's give over 210bhp simply because they have been built properly with nice high compression ratio.

Having spoken to many engine builders, they all say one thing- it's all in the pistons.

Sal

[Simon13]

proper headwork is at least Ԛ£500 upto 1k easily!

[M5pilot]

@ Ԛ£500 I'm not even talking about bigger valves. That's just porting the hell out of it and doing all of the bench flow shite on it to make sure it flows better.

To get bigger valves your easily taking Ԛ£1000.

PLayer6's car uses standard valves and still makes insane power.

[Simon13]

matched to inlet and exhaust manifolds too?

[jonb]

If someone is going to bother doing a 2.7, for FFS buy some custom lightweight pistons for Ԛ£400 which will give a nice high CR.

Having spoken to many engine builders, they all say one thing- it's all in the pistons.

Sal

sal

you said something right for once. but you need to stop talking about head jobs, just stick to engines.

pistons make a big difference in torque. but as you said, proper pistons from mahle etc cost around Ԛ£400+(as a side note, a second hand alpina/hartge/properly build 2.7 is worth the doller when you consider it). i proper 2.7 is a fantastic engine.

you can buy a whole 535i engine and manual box for less. encased in a scrap e34.

the m30 conversion is a chore. but if you dont have a nagging partner(as if) and you dont mind getting dirty then this can be done in a short space of time.

pending you have a healthy m30 then you will have a very fast car, but the low end torque is unreal in the light e30 shell all the more so when you consider the m30 isnt really a torquey engine. this conversion will piss on 2.7"s even in standard 210bhp guise. small amounts of tuning will send you up to the 230 bhp + mark.

people talk about handling but this is utter bollocks in the real real world. to be honest none of us are never going to be racing drivers. most of us who like to drive fast want to do it in a straight line. just because someone has drove around castle coombe a few times doesnt mean they are schumacher.

[M5pilot]

Wohoo.....You agreed with me!

Head work makes a difference dude. You know the difference between a budget 2.7 and the likes of the GUG.

M30 conversion is a good one - one I know fuck all about though.

In engine position 3 it is said to retain the standard weight distribution so it could handle just aswell.

fuckit - 2.7 turbo and it will piss on both a 3.5 and 2.7.

[M5pilot]

matched to inlet and exhaust manifolds too?

Inlet manifold matched - inlet manifold also has work at same time.

no idea on the exhaust side, I'm assuming something is done.

I've seen a head at bexleys - ports are massive!

They used this same porting on their own 2.7 which produced 231bhp. That engine in Micheal C's car was well quick at Santapod!

[Andyboy]

When you can go and buy a clean E36 M3 for Ԛ£4500 - a very quick car - you have to question Ԛ£3000 M20 engine builds for old E30's that only worth Ԛ£2000 at most.
The M50 conversion is largely a waste of time and is only worth doing if you have a) a really nice red 316i shell with a fucked engine and b) a 2.5 M50 engine, gearbox and ancilliaries owing you next to nothing. This was how Will's car was built but as something to spend serious dollars on, forget it. The 328i engine isn't that great either. You still need to swap inlet manifolds and othjer stuff to get over 200 bhp and too many of them are just shagged out Nikasil boat anchors. The only engine to use is the 3 litre M54 - 230 bhp standard and because it's a double vanos unit it has got shitloads of torque. You'll pay less considerably than Ԛ£2000 for an engine with the loom (I found one from a smashed 530i Touring for Ԛ£1100)and all the bits and you'll need to get the ECU flashed to sort out the EWS nonsense. An E30 318iS gearbox bolts straight onto the back of it (as does any M40 gearbox) so you DON'T need to swap the diffs.

3.5's are okay but they are now so very old and finding a good M30 is hard work.

2.7's are so yesterday - I can't believe anyone in their right minds is still pissing about with old stuff like this and spending four figure dollar doing it.
If you want to spend Ԛ£3000 on a 2.7 - just sell your 325i and buy one with the words A L P I N A on the bootlid. Easy.

[bottlecapE30]

Andyboy i totaly agree with you but you have to remember that this is an enthusiasts site. People here want to make there cars better or cooler for the sake of doing it and the enjoyment of doing it. I know with my cars price is rarely the first thing that pops into my mind. I bought a 1991 325is with a m30 dropped in for $1500 last year. and spent thousands of dollars on my soon to be supercharged 2.7, i do it because i love the cars and it is great fun. i never think "well this is so yesterday so i won't do it" many of the people that have e30 ownership now are new to these cars. you have to keep in mind a 2.7 or m30 swap is not old news to them.
Just keep in mind this is for fun, i think we all know that the e30 is never going to be the fastest or most economical car out there.

[beardymat]

just fitted a 2.7 in my touring that was built on a budget(with a lot of help from templ8e30 whose 2.7 is properly sorted) used the etta bottom end complete and an etta head with 325 valves fitted, the ports opened out to 325 spec and the oil gallerys drilled out on the previously unused cam journals.also used a 325 cam,inlet,injectors etc

its going for a rolling road remap tommorow but even with the 2.5 map it feels so much stronger than a good 325.should have some power figures for it tommorow if all goes well.

still didnt work out exceptionally cheap as you would be daft not to replace water pump,cam belt,tensioner,plugs,rotor arm and cap,clutch(possibly).not to mention head gasket kit,head bolts,sump gasket,sump,spiggot bearing.plus any head work you have done (was lucky cause i used temples old head which had had most of the work done).oh and oil and filter and coolant and a 2.7 chip.

if i had a bit more money to spend on it i would have had the bottom end recond as its just starting to show a little wear,but for the time being i just wanted to build it to get a feel for the conversion to see if i would be happy with it in my sport (would get the bottom end rebuild for that you see).

you can just stick a 325 head straight on an etta bottom end and you will still get higher comp than a standard post facelift 325.i was going to do this but couldnt find a 325 head at the time.there was a good thread on it but the main posts(from argos) seem to have disapeared which is a shame cause he listed all the pros and cons for different build methods plus expected C/R.

its all down to personal choice,i just wanted a standard look under the bonnet.

might still go 3 ltr (m54?) in the sport though

[Simon13]

Everett is the worlds biggest tight arse!

So who has fitted an M54, bolts to a 318iS gearbox. The gearbox will get munched by that engine and the diff.
How do get over all the electronics aswell i think are the biggest head ache. I'd like one though 231bhp out the box and just about enough for an E30

[TW166Y]

twiggy u are a loser sometimes. I've driven an M50 engined E30 hard and it was one of the better converted cars out here. It was wil318iS old car which i believe is still on the zone now. It was converted by Parkside bmw specialists. The only real gripe with the car was the suspension and exhaust manifold was not the best.

M20 is better low down revs, more torque. M50 is better top end.
Why because 2valve technology is in fact better than 4 valve below 4000rpm. only above this does a 4valve engine strut it's stuff. but as Dave said the extra 20bhp and 5lbs of torque is sweet FA in 2 cars which weigh the same.

If i gave u slap a few times u might come round and fit a 2.8 instead if your going to all the aggro of bodging an M50 in. but i suppose u can't do that for a monkey! lol

can u take tiggers place as zone plank, i think your nearly there anyway

tell you what you cheeky little prick, id really love to see you out and about, slap me? lol mate dont make me fcuking laugh. your just a fcuking numpty who sucks peoples arses and brown noses all the losers on here! go and play with your cock and take your mothers knickers off your face 'n' open your eyes! fcuking tool!

[TW166Y]

just get an eta/324td crank.320 rods, plus a vernier pulley. get the block decked and the bottom of the pistons shaved as the skirts will hit the crank and basically thats it Daz. Some new shells and rings and off u go.

eta/325i blocks are the same.

this is him who knows everything

they aint the same darling!

[Simon13]

truth hurt? must of hit a nerve with all that swearing tigger in the making

i'm out and about all the time, will u be at santa pod i'll look forward to it

i'll race your 4 door shed in my 4 door Ԛ£300 shed? sounds like fun to me

[TW166Y]

So you are seriously telling me a m20 engine is better than the m50? HHHmmmmm

WHEN did I say better?

dave, why spend thousands on an m20 lump to get it to push 200 bhp? all's i said was if you slap an m50 in there, 192 bhp standard add a chip and lighten the flywheel it will go like fcuk, and all for the price of about Ԛ£500.

im not being funny mate or being a cu*nt. ill leave that to your mate simon13.. he's the one who seems to think he can talk to people how he wants. silly little boy

[Andyboy]

Says who? A guy I know has a 2002 Turbo running 300 bhp and runs a 318i (M10) gearbox. It hasn't broken yet! Don't forget Jayson (ChippedUk) who ran a standard 320i box (the same internals as a 318i type 240 box) with a pretty high power 2.7....with NoS!

BMW bearboxes are tougher than you think. Also you could probably run a standard prop as well - another chuck of dollar saved.

As for 2.7's - if you could build it yourself you can build one for about Ԛ£500. I've never paid more than Ԛ£50 for the short engine and never more than Ԛ£60 for a 325i head. I've always bought a complete running 525e for this. The last one was a 98'000 miler with history, Ԛ£62 off Ebay. I sold Ԛ£230 worth of bits off the car which paid for the whole engine build - water pump, head gasket set, sump gasket, belt, head bolts and even skimming the head.

Thus the engine was free and I could have been less of a tight arse and spent Ԛ£300 on a cam! If you're into messing with cars, this is surely the way to do it. For thousands it just makes sense to fit a better, lighter and more powerful engine.

[Simon13]

twiggy it's called common sense, something which is eluding u at the moment. Or are u on a quest to be "different", wow look at his M50! but whats the point to it all. When are u getting a bonnet badge for your turd?

[TW166Y]

truth hurt? must of hit a nerve with all that swearing tigger in the making

i'm out and about all the time, will u be at santa pod i'll look forward to it

i'll race your 4 door shed in my 4 door Ԛ£300 shed? sounds like fun to me

why dont you shut the fcuk up you little tart. go and try to rip someone off again with that 4k price tag loser! fcuk you. you need to be told! your a tool, you stir, you agrue, everything you do, you think is better. your like a little fucking kid man GROW UP EHY?

[Simon13]

how tall are u twiggy? sounds like your a big man

[TW166Y]

twiggy it's called common sense, something which is eluding u at the moment. Or are u on a quest to be "different", wow look at his M50! but whats the point to it all. When are u getting a bonnet badge for your turd?

ill get your mum to buy one for me and suck my 12" shlong while shes at it you freek


and yeh.... WHO'S TRYING TO BE DIFFERENT? ill leave that to people like you, you think they are on a higher pedistool than every fooker else your brainless dick

[TW166Y]

how tall are u twiggy? sounds like your a big man

why's that then? alls im saying is you need to pipe down a bit fella! i might not be that tall, infact im rather happy i dont look like lurch too. but i hit like a fcuking steel train chooooo chooooooo

leave it there now, ive had my say, you have had yours! if you actually take a look at thred you'll realise where all of this came from. you and your mouth, well your fingers

[Andyboy]

FUCKING HELL GUYS!! Ease up!

Simon - the box to really use is the 260 from a really, really early 24v 520i or 525i. They only made them for a couple of months before going to a close ratio direct top 'box which is no good to you without a diff swap. Look outb for a G or early H plater in the breakers as these boxes are very sought after. They look just like the old M20 boxes with the external ribs but have the M40 and M50 bolt pattern for the bellhousing.

Twi66y - you're a bad, bad man!

[Simon13]

so your a midget then with a chip on his shoulder like most short people lol

i'm me, not trying to be different, my car is but not i. Oh but because it's alpina i must think i'm better than everyone how could i forget that?........... i started with a shit box 318i then a 318is, 325i sport, 325i auto and now a C2 aswell. But i'm guessing u didn't know that. I've worked my way up to that car. To be branded a snob by some pisses me off but thats life so i just play on the fact tbh

[TW166Y]

personally i wouldnt call 6ft a midget but there you go simon where has all this come from? do you really think you are allowed to slag people off and there mods and not expect a single comment back?
I wouldnt call you a snob for owning an alpina nor would i call you one, but you are certainly acting like one at the moment! Im far from jelous if thats what you think too. i just dont like it when you, and other people rip in other zoners cars, as you have done with me in the past! ive shut the fcuk up untill now to save this bollox and chatting sh*t on the forum. fact of the matter is, this place is very very "homely" to certain people and if your face dont fit then your a cock yeh?? we are all e30 lovers on here and you amongst other people need to realise that! if i want to buy a Ԛ£400 "TURD" then leave that to me, i just can wait to see the cocky looked on your face when its finished and who knows... maybe ill see a 6k price tag like my mate stevetigger

[TW166Y]

FUCKING HELL GUYS!! Ease up!

Twi66y - you're a bad, bad man!

Nope, not me

[Morat]