Starting Problems after engine rebuild!

[QuiKie]

to cut an extremely long story short, my engine wont start.
Its fueling ok, plus all plugs sparking well, all cables and obvious things checked. Makes the odd chuck as if its about too go but then just goes back to whining over and over..

Also is the firing order on all sports the same????

[DRIFTBOY]

I had that problem with my M30 engine - took ages cranking it but eventually it went.

I've also had problems with flooding - spark at the plugs when tested but too wet to fire - and it's easy to get the fuel pipes on the wrong way round - pressurises the system - beware taking them off it can spray quite violently if they have been put on the wrong way round!

[320Touring]

I had that problem with my M30 engine - took ages cranking it but eventually it went.

I've also had problems with flooding - spark at the plugs when tested but too wet to fire - and it's easy to get the fuel pipes on the wrong way round - pressurises the system - beware taking them off it can spray quite violently if they have been put on the wrong way round!

if you remove the fuel pump fuse it should de pressureise the system..

[DRIFTBOY]

Aaah!

That would save being temporarily blinded by petrol in the eyes like I did!

[320Touring]

Aaah!

That would save being temporarily blinded by petrol in the eyes like I did!

lol! hindsight is always 20/20, nevermind, eh.

[QuiKie]

got the fuel pipes on the right way, also there is a bit of a drone which has developed, it feels like i have been cranking it for ever... soon i will be looking a new starter!!

I did make a boob at the start, the head was not torqued down and the water came up through the head bolts and entered the cylinders, i got the majority of the water out and kept drying the spark plugs but now they have turned a black suity colour at the tips really frustrating me now!!!!

[DRIFTBOY]

Could the plugs have got oil on them then? Hence the black? Are they new plugs?
If you haven't already I'd change the oil a bit quick too then, could have got water in the oil with a loose head! I'm not laughing by the way, I've done dafter things than that!
How did you get the water out, plugs out and crank the engine?

[QuiKie]

Could the plugs have got oil on them then? Hence the black? Are they new plugs?

The plugs were basically new anyway, they have developed this black stuff while trying to get it going.. I took them out every so often an give them a clean, oil was changed aswell but would this even have made a difference too it starting anyway??

How did you get the water out, plugs out and crank the engine?

Yeah!

[DRIFTBOY]

Water in oil shouldn't affect starting, just didn't want you to ruin the rebuilt engine once it does go!
Oh, and firing order should all be the same, 1 5 3 6 2 4.

I can't think why the plugs would be black before it's fired up though!?

I'll ponder on that one.

[QuiKie]

they were not black when i started?????

silly question, but as you look onto the dist where the leads connect, is that the order in which they will be appear, as in the top plug is 1 etc??

[QuiKie]

how can i upload a pic? Ill show you the order i have them connected..

[DRIFTBOY]

I know more about M30 than M20 engines (not everything though - just trying to help from what knowledge I do have), but that is not the case for the M30!
It seems a bit random because of how the distributor cap is constructed!

Have you got a multi-meter to test continuity of the eletrical connectors?
That will tell you what pin inside the cap relates to what h.t. lead plug on the outside.

[QuiKie]

have a multi meter yeah!
what way do i go about doing that, which connection is the first in line... im baffeled

[DRIFTBOY]

I only know how to upload a pic using www.photobucket.com
Easy to sign on to!

Then on 'img', paste the photo link in then click on 'img' again.

[QuiKie]

[DRIFTBOY]

Your'e lucky my girlfriend has gone out with the girls tonight and I've got time to talk cars on the net all night!
Ok.
Using the timing marks on the crank pulley, find tdc.
With the distributor cap off the rotor arm should point almost to no.1 terminal in the cap - although it could be 180 degrees out if it is at tdc on the exhaust stroke so you have two chances of getting it right!
Using the mulitmeter to find what order the leads go on (engine turns clockwise looking from the front) then arrange the leads in order from no.1.
I hope I'm helping here and not confusing!

[DRIFTBOY]

My M30 engine (might well be the same set up only bigger) is:

O _______ 2

O ________4

O ________6

O ________ Coil

O ________3

O ________1

O ________5

Could be worth a go!

[QuiKie]

lol
can make sense of the first part
but either way i have the leads connected up wrong??
my firing order with the way i have them connected up at present is 1, 4, 6, 2, 5, 3 am i right in saying that?

[DRIFTBOY]

No, it won't be 1 4 6 2 5 3 , the caps dont go in a logical order from the outside! I think your's is at 6 2 4 1 5 3.
I think you are just 180 degrees out mate, an easy mistake! Can cause popping and banging back up through the inlet too!
I'm willing to be corrected on this but I'd give it a go.

[QuiKie]

YOUR A FECKING GENIUS!!!! its popping back through the inlet/afm lol so my timing is 180 out?

[DRIFTBOY]

Could well be!

I've done that many times, looking at the position of the rockers (means taking the cam cover off) will tell you if the engine is on the exhaust or compression stroke when piston no.1 is at tdc.

Easier to change the leads round and try that first though!

[QuiKie]

will try the leads first but i defo think your right about being 180 out, i just copied the leads off mates sport and app they are all the same and i did have a bit of bother with the timing to begin with, i was told as i had taken so much off the head that the original timing marks would be no good to me anyway as i was altering the compression of the engine??tis a bit of a ballix tho as it means more stripping again rather than putting more back on the car!
Thanks a heap tho matey, at least this gives me something to work on now, I loose the rag very easy when it comes too this car as I have never really had it running as well as i want it too, in the 3 odd years of having its been off the road for around 2 of them and in between times its changed hands but I like a fool went running back for it haha maybe this time it will run as well as it looks

[QuiKie]

that would also explain why the spark plugs were getting all suited up too?

[DRIFTBOY]

No probs, I hope it is as simple as that, for your sake!
I would think you'd have to take a huge amount off the head to worry about compression and timing though! Didn't think it was possible to adjust ignition timing on these engines anyway. It isn't on the M30.
Skimming the head can cause problems with timing belts and camshaft timing but only in quite extreme circumstances!
Still not too sure sure about the black plugs though. Might be something that is beyond my knowledge that!

[Brianmoooore]

It's cam timing that is changed by head skimming, not ignition timing.
Ignition timing can only be changed by an add on ignition processor (sometimes used on LPG conversions), or by modifying the bracket the holds the crank position sensor.

[QuiKie]

quite alot was taken off the head as all the work was done then a minor crack was discovered which was v`d out an welded, the head then required skimming again..

[DRIFTBOY]

Did you get it going?

[rob320is]

hi im a spanner by trade and if you gettin fuel and spark ,it should run if timings ok. must either be valve timing or ignition timing problem ,or are the injectors being pulsed , you know you getting fuel to the rail ,but are they squirting ? my Ԛ£Ã”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£ on valve timing another thought did you adjust the valve clearances?

[QuiKie]

not running well at all, first of all it was blowing blue smoke out of the back then tried the other leads setup still running dog rough and had to be kept on rev to keep er going but no blue smoke that time. and the cam timing is ok as far am i am told....

all th injectors were working grand and i got them all ultra sonic? cleaned

[QuiKie]

[reggid]

It's cam timing that is changed by head skimming, not ignition timing.
Ignition timing can only be changed by an add on ignition processor (sometimes used on LPG conversions), or by modifying the bracket the holds the crank position sensor.

how does modifying the bracket alter ignition timing?

[Brianmoooore]

how does modifying the bracket alter ignition timing?

In exactly the same way as rotating the distributor did on old engines with points in their distributors.

[Dan318-is]

It's cam timing that is changed by head skimming, not ignition timing.
Ignition timing can only be changed by an add on ignition processor (sometimes used on LPG conversions), or by modifying the bracket the holds the crank position sensor.

Is this the same for M20s? so if the timing was ot be retarted the crank sensor would have to face downwards more?

[QuiKie]

any fresh ideas>??????