Is the E30 Over engineered?

[eldarvanyar]

I often read that the old Mercs are 'over engineered' in the car mags, is this true of the E30 or has quality improved since then?

[zaust]

For the year, very over engineered.

Did you know the E30 was the first production car to have fiber optics .?.

[Dan318-is]

For the year, very over engineered.

Did you know the E30 was the first production car to have fiber optics .?.

where?

[zaust]

For the year, very over engineered.

Did you know the E30 was the first production car to have fiber optics .?.

where?

AAHHH. a quiz with no prize let's see who get's it.

orange curry excluded as im sure you know....

[zaust]

A clue. They did not use them to transmit electrical messages to any part of the car...

[Dan318-is]

A clue. They did not use them to transmit electrical messages to any part of the car...

didnt think so. headlights?

[zaust]

Along the right line..

Think inside.

[FBF]

for lighting switches?

[jonb]

e30 over engineered???

hhhmmm. boot leaks, rust, s.i board problems, dodgy rear suspension, cracked heads, need i go on?

i bet someone is going to say "well not while the car was still in production did that happen". well most of it did actually.

[zaust]

for lighting switches?

AAHHH now which one's ??

[stevenannahouse]

hhhmmm. boot leaks, rust, s.i board problems, dodgy rear suspension, cracked heads, need i go on?

I personally feel that they are over enginered. Rust i feel is an issue on cars that have never been cleaned and looked after correctly. Also i have owned 4 bmw's now and never had problems with electrics..I have also owned several later japaneese model cars and the electrics have been pish poor.

[Richy325iTouring]

heater panel lights

[FBF]

build quality is second to none. maybe beaten only by the w124 mercs.

as for the light switches... hmm guessing at the ones that still work in my car id say front dash rear wiper lights?

or seeing as how its optics itd be safer to assume theyd be in the back of the car somewher?

[zaust]

heater panel lights

Give you that one it's the 3 sliders for the air direction, the tip is lit by the fibers..

[orangecurry]

For the year, very over engineered.

Did you know the E30 was the first production car to have fiber optics .?.

where?

AAHHH. a quiz with no prize let's see who get's it.

orange curry excluded as im sure you know....

but I don't want to be excluded - I want to be like everyone else

[m-dtech]

silly question to ask on a forum where everyone loves there car to pieces !!!!

[appletree]

I,d say they are over engineed and deffinatly for that time period when you compare it to other cars of the same era.

[orangecurry]

I'm confused - it seems to me that some people think 'over-engineered' is bad and others think it is good

my understanding of the phrase, when connected with the E30, is that BMW made the car better than it needed to be, and by doing so earned a positive reputation which has held them in good stead ever since, even though the cars and/or dealerships have gone down hill post E30

therefore over-engineered is a good thing, and that is that main reason why we are all still enjoying a 15-20 year-old car, when it's rivals (bar Merc) have long since been rusting in the scrapyard

[eldarvanyar]

Being over engineered is a great thing. I asked the question because I have heard it said so many times in the motoring press about mercs of the same era. If the engines can go on for 200k miles without a rebuild then the engineering must be good. Rust is always a killer no matter how good the mechanics. At the end of the day you don't see many escorts around of the same age. Lots of Saabs and volvos though with mega mileage. Now they are definitely over engineered.

[ShepsEvo3]

E30's over engineered??? No in my opinion, but I think they are about right. I just wished thay didn't suffer from the old rot issues!!

[Brianmoooore]

I just wished thay didn't suffer from the old rot issues!!

I don't know where you find these rotted E30s. In the last couple of years I've bought, I think, seven E30s, all without seeing them first except for a couple of photos.
Out of these, only one has had rust issues serious enough to place the shell beyond sensible repair.

[ShepsEvo3]

It seems the M3 didn't have the same rust protection program. My mums 318is is a 1990 G reg and has no rust whatsoever. My Europa must have been galvanised as that too never had any. My Evo2 and 3 both had rust issues. I have another 318is which has rust issues, but are not major. You must be lucky! lol

[Jhonno]

any car will rot if not cleaned properly or bear metal from scratches is left unfilled

[DanThe]

The over engineered part to me is the way everything is designed to be worked on, E30's are a lot more thought out than the later E36's IMO

[DRIFTBOY]

I admit not E30 here, but same vintage, my rough old 1988 E34 535i donor car's crankshaft (which is now in the M30 engine in my E30) had covered 186,000 miles when I took the engine apart. I took it to an engineer to be reground. He phoned me up and said "it doesn't need a regrind, there's hardly any measurable wear on it"! He polished the journals and gave it back!

That's quality engineering!

[ShepsEvo3]

Well, the French has sorted out thier rot issues. Shame BMW didn't/hasn't adopted the same program as them.

[DRIFTBOY]

I'd have to agree with the BMW rust thing!

My E30 has rust issues and I hardly ever see an E30 on the road that isn't rusty! But they are getting on a bit I suppose.

There are nice ones but they go for lots of Ԛ£Ã”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£ usually! Rightly so though, great car apart from that.

[mrLEE30]

Personally i am thinkning along the similar lines to orange curry i.e how do you define over engineering?, to me (being an engineer but a elctrical type one) i would say to over engineer something would mean they would make it better for the manufacturer, but worse for a long term customer, as for example an engine designer, my goal is to make the engine as powerful, and fuel efficient as posiible for the least money, and that means the least materials, so i would engineer the engine to use the minimum amount of metal for example with the bore seperation being as small as poss, thus my over engineering will now lead to a weaker engine over time as things wear out. (note i only use the bore seperation as an example, the same could be true for pistons, bearings, water hoses etc etc)

so in my opinion the E30 was under engineered, i.e it had been kept simple and designed not for maximum factory profits but for maximum customer satisfaction by building (and modifying) on proven existing technology, and this is well proven as there seem to be loads still around. (and it was not a pioneering car, trailing arm suspension, straight six (or four!) independant wishbone front suspension, body mounted on a chassis etc nothing that hadn't been around for 20 years on (in some cases) the E21 and even the 02's

lets see how many E46's are still on the road in 15 years time with all their electronics etc, and who would buy a E32 or even an E38 these days (except Geeman )? once things go wrong they cannot be mended only replaced at dealer prices, most parts cannot be swaped on a car of the same year if you found a scrapped one, now that in my opinion is over engineering and its for the factories benefit.

mrlee

[mark_i]

e30 over-engineered? Yes, but isn't that we reason we love 'em.. when kids younger than my 318iS come up to me or strangers leave notes under the windscreen wipers, you know those German dudes twenty years ago made all the right decisions.

[320Touring]

to be honest-overengineered-nope!

that is the minimum build quality i'd expect from a car i bought.

but you can see where BMW spent the extra money- mainly on making bolts that still loosen after 18 years.

[Andyboy]

For the year, very over engineered.

Did you know the E30 was the first production car to have fiber optics .?.

No - the Jaguar XJ6 and XJ12 had fibre optics in 1973 to illuminate switches and the instruments - a European first. General Motors had Fibre Optics in Cadillacs in the sixties but the Americans were always way ahead of everyone else with that sort of thing. Self seeking radios in 1956, electronic automatic gearboxes in 1959 along with turbochargers. BMW were building bubble cars around this time.

[Andyboy]

Over engineered? No way - they were not that well made. The E34 was over engineered however.

[fuzzy]

you think e30 's have rust issues you should have owned a japanese car of the same era.e30's are extremely over engineered in comparison

[Andyboy]

BMW's have not gone downhill either - they have got better and better for rust and other issues. Electrical problems yes (in keeping with everything else). About the only car which has got considerably worse over the last 10 -15 years are Mercedes whose build quality now is about the same as a seventies Ford. I've seen countless rusty 1995-1999 Mercs - in fact when looking at an 8 year old C or E Class it's quicker to count the ones that haven't gone rusty, if you can find one. Add shitty, troublesome petrol engines (Something Mercs have had forever tbh) and lousy trim anf there you have it. In my opinion the Merc myth was just that. The W124 had a terrible reputation after the W123 for electrical problems and they can rot pretty well too. The 'indestructible' tag comes from the old W123 with the silvertop petrol and disels. They were Armageddon proof, never mind bombs and bullets.
In a similar way, the last proper Peugeot was the 504 which was built like a tank.

[Bob_S]

the e30 was BMW's make or break car.. I'm not surprised they stuck with a tried and tested formula and used simplicity, sometimes a step back is two steps forwards