Fritzs Bits vs Cheapo vs BTB

[Foomanchu]

Hi I've posted a few times with regards to a good exhaust setup..
I had dead straight standard and had no worries with it but it's 16 yrs old and dead now... I tried asking before but no real joy so plummed for a Quicksilver system, BIG BAD mistake.
Now I need to get something sharpish...
Do I go for

1, Fritzs Bits Full System and Manifold ?

2, Cheapo GSF/Standard for the time being ?

3, Wait potentally a long time for a BTB setup ?

I think I know what I should do but the valued opinion of others will help..
I'm not to bothered about big power gains as it's an Auto 325i Cab.


Thanks

Lui

[pnd]

In response to your earlier post I told you my experience of the fritz's bits manifold. It does give extra power more than 1 bhp on the two cars Ive seen it fitted to however there were problems with the quality of manufacture on mine Ive had the gasket off and refitted several times and eventually had to have the manifold machined flat. (before you ask the guy that fitted it was a former head mechanic for a well known bmw dealer) Also I'm not very impresseed by the way fritz's bits say the manifold and downpipe will fit pre and post facelift cars which it wont without altering and I'm also not impressed with the way they keep saying the manifold alone gives 10% extra power i.e 15-17 brake on a 325i. I bought it because it was the only system I was aware of at the time its okay but for a bit more the btb gives a lot more.

[Foomanchu]

I agree the selling of the system it is a bit pushy and maybe trying to be a bit flexible on the truth side 20 bhp is what was quoted an in all honesty I know it doesn't happen like that but first and foremost it's the quality I'm looking for along with ease of fitting I just want a fit and forget system that ticks the right boxes and it seems that maybe the Fritzs bits falls a little short ? would you agree ?
Do you have any photo's and what car is your system on ?

Thanks

Lui

[miniblob]

Well BTB are not cheap but i'm well happy with mine!! It is loud though!!

Click here for pics/vid's

Quality looks good too and i've only heard good things about them!!

[dazleeds]

i used to have a frits manifold

mine fitted both pre and post face without probs

as for power well the car felt a little better but i wouldnt imagine it added anywhere near 20bhp

seemed to run a little smoother and pull a little better but with hindsight if i get another it will be the btb and nothing else unless it can back up any gain figures with solid proof

[Foomanchu]

ok so what do you have now ?

The BTB setup does look very nice..
What sort of money does a complete setup come in at if you don't mind me asking...

I need the system in under 2 weeks as I'm driving it to Italy I did try this about 8 weeks ago which may have given me a fighting chance of a BTB but the Mayhem of the Quicksilver has messed me up in the time scale..

Lui

[dazleeds]

just standard on my at the moment

couldnt be bothered fitting it too the sport
and needed some cash at the time

[miniblob]

Can't honestly remember the price - Sal (m5pilot) is the man to ask just pm him or contact him through the zone shop and i'm sure he'll tell you the price, and he'll know how long they'll take to deliver!!

[pnd]

Just a point the manifold fits both cars its the downpipe that doesn't. The fritz's system sounds well and does give genuine if modest gains. I have had a sport and a standard car with this manifold it made more difference on the sport but was mated to an original bmw system on the other car Ive joined it to a cheap bosal exhaust. Quality is fine now their on.

[Simon13]

anything else is a waste of time eh?

[pacerpete]

I hear Fritz do a good system for a massey 135 !

[oguz327]

Apart from Racing dynamics which are rare as hens teeth, then there realy is no contest, BTB all the way.
I am well pleased with mine, more power and it sounds fantastic, so addictive.

Highly recomend BTB, worth the wait.

[Rosc0PColtrane]

I hear Fritz do a good system for a massey 135 !

Hand rolled over a Cider barrel no less.

"bleddy baaahhssssttteeerrrdddsss" speed! hand polished with corn, fitted with bailer twine!!!

[M5pilot]

I may have one manifold spare coming at the end of this week if your interested.

The Fritz is a waste of space and they bullshit over the phone about the gains. We saw 1 bhp on the GUG with huge low end losses.

Karan then changed to the Racing Dynamics and it made quite a big gain over the Fritz.

Racing Dynamics is not worth discussing as an option as it simply isnt available unless Simon13 is getting rid of his which is just not going to happen. Even Tyson couldn't get it off him!

The BTB is something that we E30 owners are lucky to have. BTB really had to be convinced to make it and spend all that money developing it. It is by far the best manifold out there in terms of it's build, fitment, noise and power gains. It is on the wish list of so many people.

Miniblob has the BTB single pipe exhaust system also fitted, it is extremely expensive @ Ԛ£710.

Me personally - I would buy a BTB manifold and add either the Sebring exhaust or the Boysen system Andy has mentioned above. Even the standard BMW system is very good.

he BTB will fit flawlessly to a 3 piece setup. The noise is porn.

The cost of the single BTB I have coming in is Ԛ£685 + postage, the new batch coming towards the end of Oct'06 is going to be Ԛ£695 + Postage.

It is not worth paying Ԛ£400-Ԛ£600 to the likes of Fritz (Larini manifold) and certainly not the rubbish Quicksilver item which is an extremely poor copy of an Alpina manifold which will not fit for shit. The internals of the collectors are anightmare and the system actually shows a power loss (other than the one I had which was modified extensively).

Now that I have outright mentioned that there is one BTB avaialble for this week I know the phone is going to ring - foomanchu has first refusal up until tommorrow evening.

Sal

[Ziggy]

Racing Dynamics is not worth discussing as an option as it simply isnt available unless Simon13 is getting rid of his which is just not going to happen. Even Tyson couldn't get it off him!

If anyone wants to make me a silly offer, you can top the bill in the showcase fight with Simon13 for mine!

[M5pilot]

I forgot you had one.

Sal

[E30BeemerLad]

save your pennies boys and put the money towards another engine rather than miniscule gains from the M20 boat anchor with bolt ons.

Agreed, cars like the Gug etc are/ were quick bits of kit by all account, but how much pony spent really to get 210+ bhp. Ԛ£3-Ԛ£5K? puhhhhlease!

Not knocking the BTB etc if that's your cup of tea, but Ԛ£ per BHP I don't think the gains are worth the cost

[M5pilot]

Gains per Ԛ£Ã”šÃ‚£ are rather shite on NA engines accross the board though.

Your missing the point on the BTB - your only looking at it from the "peak BHP" point of view.

What about the noise and the change in the way the power is delivered? Does that not have a value?

Do people not spend Ԛ£500 on their exhausts just to change the noise and get 1-2 bhp power gains?

Cams get fitted all the time to the M20 and it makes a signifcant difference as to how the car drives.

It's not all about peak BHP.

Sal

[Foomanchu]

Hi Sal

I have only just checked this thread again !!

I have just paid for the Fritzs Bits setup It turns up in the morning if it doesn't well it goes back, if it turns up and isn't as promised well it goes back. And I will call you but what exhaust can you offer me to make it match up well all for 1k thats as much as I'm willing to pay..

Thanks

Lui

[--alpina--]

Hi foomanchu, frits exhaust is good BUT only for the E21 setups as they deigned on that car then modified to the downpipe shape for the E30... what i did was i ordered the 6 branch manifold and went straight to LONGLIFE stainless steel exhaust makers, this way u definetly gonna get BHP out of your car... and also you can design the pipe work of the exhaust for your car the way u want it , as mine is totally different design to the standard ... as it has 2 boxes on either side a pipe from the middle box goes over the rear subframe to each box insteat of the oneside version.. if you guys understand how the E21 is you know what i mean, and with the Longlife setup with frits manni, YES its a good power gains but with frits complete, i would wonna smell it or touch it... a few people experiance there workmanship and was told they got ripped left right and center for conversions, so id keep away from them its what i was told anyway.. but they sound like good people..

Keep the 6 branch manni, and send back the rest and go for a stainless steel custom made setup.... choose your sound also.. which is cool.



Sweet.

[Jhonno]

Hi Sal

I have only just checked this thread again !!

I have just paid for the Fritzs Bits setup

Thanks

Lui

Shame , the BTB one is much superior

Beemerlad - its been shown for 1k you can get at least 190bhp from the m20, with a sexual noise and great driveability.. An engine conversion with the extra hassle isnt worth it if thats how far you are intending to go

[Cabrio]

There are other items available that you have not considered..

Did you not see the Stainless tubular manifold The E30 Centre had at Gaydon...

It fits the RHD cars and is polished stainless...dont know figures at this time for rolling road etc but will fit onto standard twin middle box or supersprint system etc...which has not been considered as they dont do a manifold as yet but sure they will.

So alternatives exist, they may give different noises and different performance figures but the design cannot differ so drastically to give or lose 10hp..but sure someone may say differently.

The E30 Centre downpipes/manifold is currently Ԛ£450 and the middle and back boxes are on the way...will be interesting to see and test...which is what I plan to do...seen quality and it is excellent and price is good verses percieved competition...may we worth direct test some day

[Simon13]

cabrio can we see pic's is this the guy who comes to ace cafe now and then? I've seen some shocking crap come out of some blokes mouth. Claiming he was showing me a RHD alpina manifold. It was a magnex copy! chancer

u don't need to spend 3k to get a good 2.7. 2.7 is the most reliable fun u will have in an E30 and the easiest route which is proven 100%. Good for lazt drivers and fast driving they do most things well!

[Foomanchu]

Well in between all the other issues people like to rant about on this thread
I have taken delievery of my new Manifold and Exhaust and I must just say first impressions of it look very promising the view of the garage and myself. It's going to be fitted tomorrow then off for it's MOT retest it needed rear brake pipes replaced and headlight alignment sorted so then it's to me for a good bedding in and a 1100 mile drive to Italy 1 week there then visit a friend in Monaco then my Auntie in Cannes then back home via the RING....

I will let you know my true opinions once fitted thanks to everyone with a positive input..

Lui

[Simon13]

we were all trying to help u, if u don't want to listen to hard won advise then there isn't alot we can do is there?

[Foomanchu]

Well I listened to the advise of people who had experienced the FB setup as that seemed to be my only genuine option that would arrive sharpish and nobody seemed to be dissapointed with it.
I understand the BTB is proven to be a more acomplished and polished product but as I pointed out early on I just can't wait that long for the BTB ( I know Sal now has one avaliable) and because something is good doesn't make another bad ! Pure outright power wasn't my only consideration.


Any how.

I have an M3 to spend money on for some extra power and performance.

Lui

[tomson]

Id be interested to know your opinion once its all on mate as ive not heard anything good about FB's tbh, but thats not to say they arent!

Im currently waiting on my BTB to be delivered for my 2.7 build

Tom

[Foomanchu]

Well it's all fitted and on.

I was told it was a pleasure to fit with no issues at all..
I like the look of everything on it, it's very similar to the orginal in tail pipe and back box but with 65mm twin slash.

Now the sound oh dear do I like that, slightly increased in normal driving but just a little prod and things change and once 3.5k comes in well it really sounds good a slight warble and then a sort of deep scream/howl

And in manual (bear in mind I have an auto) holding on to the gears is something I just can't stop doing, and then there are the tunnels...

I like and will recomend this little setup..
I know from other's genuine and honest opinions that the BTB is by all accounts awesome but I now know it is wrong to say the Fritzs Bits system is crap or of poor quality.

Oh and the power may be up ? it may be down ? it doesn't feel any different in all honesty but it sounds about 100bhp more at least..

Thanks

Lui

[Cabrio]

Fair play...you are right that people can only criticise something to which they have personal experience but rumours do get around about different things and sometimes its unfair..and unjustified...glad to hear you are happy...proves there are other options...and there are more available again and sure more to follow to test the market and possibly make things more affordable for all

Congrats

[Foomanchu]

Cheers

[M5pilot]

My opinion of this manifold has still not changed having experienced it on my own car and also seeing what it does on the dyno....twice.

If your going to do something do it properly. This FB has no design behind it other than it's designed to fit.....just about.

Ԛ£500 is alot of money to pay for something that takes away low end torque and does nothing for power.

if you think your FB sounds good, you should check out the cheaper BTB manifold which costs Ԛ£450 - that's a real noise!

Anyway, you've got it now even though you had the chance to buy a piece of art for not much more.

Please do not recommend it just because you have parted with your hard earned money - recommend something for what it is - in this case not alot.

Don't take offense to anything I say, I'm just expressing my opinion based on the facts others and myself have witnessed with this overpriced product.

Seeing as so many people find the BTB2 so expensive I may bring back the BTB1 as it's alot cheaper and still adds a proven 7-9 bhp without any low end losses.
If it stops being buying rubbish then it's worth it.
Sal

[jmc330i]

Glad you got it sorted and youre happy with it, thats what its all about after all

Seeing as so many people find the BTB2 so expensive I may bring back the BTB1 as it's alot cheaper and still adds a proven 7-9 bhp without any low end losses.

Other than the price, whats the difference between the BTB1 & 2? How come theres a difference in the BHP gains?