Mini Supercharger on a 318is

[Pharaoh]

Hi
I was pondering to see if you could fit a supercharger off a Mini on to a 318is?
If so how easy would it be?
And what sort of power gains?

Thanks

[jagtech2002]

uuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SCOTT325SE]

i think someone has been over this before. i think the conclusion was that you could, but that it would be a total ball-ache!

[Turbo-Brown]

Yeah, there's a huge thread about it in this section somewhere, can't remember what conclusions we reached though. Ignore the bit at the end where people are going on about not getting free 'chargers though

[benjy]

The supercharger for the mini is too small for the is. For a start the mini is only a 1600 and doesnt run much boost so if you increase the engines capacity the charger will actually be delivering less boost. The best way is to get a charger from a bigger capacity engine, this will then be able to make more boost for the same revolutions. There is a book by Corky Bell, yes its his real name!!, its is very informative but does contain typo/printing errors with the math!!

[Pharaoh]

arhh

i am currently scouring the forum for the thread about superchargers..

i only ask cus today on the way to work i was passed by this missile of an e36 tourer in my wing mirror i could see a front mounted intercooler then it passed me at like 94 in a 40 when i caught up at traffic it said 328i on the back. so now i want some more power.. must say the tourer sounded fantastic tho...

i Want one... GRRRRRRRR

[Pharaoh]

What bout putting this on think it would look cool man... LOL

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/rover-v8-supercha ... dZViewItem

[maxfield]

Turbo is probably a better route more power aswell

[benjy]

depends on how you want your power...........

[maxfield]

Good point but ive read there are alot more complications in supercharging

[benjy]

as much as in addin a turbo, depends how you go about it

[maxfield]

Do a search i'm sure there are threads i think lentec has bolted a supercharger on.

[Pharaoh]

ok then next question then i saw the post about the guy fitting the throttle bodies to the m42 engine. What bodies are they???

[maxfield]

Individuale throttle bodies you on about they were from an M3 not sure whether 46/48mm most probably 46

[Pharaoh]

do they have to be off an M3 or could you use anyones like ones off a Motorbike.. 48mm ?

[benjy]

the guys name is tim s, do a search....its a long thread but worth the read!!!

[stuartgallafant]

i got a spare iS (M42) engine stripped down at work. i've also got a supercharger from a MINI Cooper S at work. i been planning this and thinking about it for a long time, and i reckon it is worth it.

for a start, the Cooper S is run at 2 bar boost (may be run at 4, but im sure its 2!). the 'charger, however, is capable of running something like 14 bar. with the right pulley setup, you can increase the speed of the 'charger, which will allow more air to enter it, meaning more air enters the engine, etc, etc...

a higher compression ratio will also be needed, to maximise compression. like tim_s has done regarding his crank conversion and throttle bodies, doing this may also benefit the conversion, but its a case of how much time/money/wanting to do it...

at the moment, these are all just plans. i've got most of the stuff needed, but now i'll be seeking more information to help me complete this. im fully aware that most of the engines parts will have to be uprated, such as rings, bearings, bolts, gaskets, the list goes on... not forgetting to mention the cooling aspect!

obviously the engine will definately benefit from a MAF conversion, and full live remap, but those things are pretty much taken care of too. thinking about maybe using the M44 fuel/ignition setup, as this more advanced to the M42

like i said, i will be needing more information/help/motivation from you guys, as well as your views and opinions (be gentle!!), so feel free to help me out. think i'd better start my own thread actually, rather than hi-jacking Pharoah's thread! (sorry dude, my bad!)

[dark_sounds]

go stu! show em how its done!

then do mine! lol

[Ant]

cooper S is 2 bar , surely not dude thats 30psi almost

[maxfield]

I'm not F/I or anything buts thats hell of alot

[stuartgallafant]

cooper S is 2 bar , surely not dude thats 30psi almost

sorry aint, my bad again. the super chargers start at 5psi and work up to 14psi

check these links out

http://www.capa.com.au/eaton_m45data.htm

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/to ... 0&f=66&h=0

found out some pretty good info on here too

[benjy]

as i said.......at 5psi on 1600cc, youll have to turn the charger faster to make 5 psi to feed 1800cc..........this is why i said get a bigger charger than the mini one unless of corse your going to run a mild setup?

[tim_s]

couple of things. firstly my ITBs are 50mm.
the 2.1 conversion wasn't just a longer crank, its got a much bigger bore. i'm running 86.6 x 88 so the engine is very nearly square, it revs to 7,150 at the mo, i need to make a few changes before i go higher (oil baffle mainly). The CR is just under 11:1. with my restrictionless intake, big ITBs and big cams soon to come and flowed head I should have some impressive figures.
The m42 engine really deserves some love. its smaller and lighter than the S14, cheaper to run, sits further back in the engine bay, has oil squirters for the pistons (only the sport evo has these iirc), hyd lifters etc and good sized inl and exh valves for good power while maintaining torque. rant over, now get modding guys.

as for superchargers, you guys never heard of DASC?! imo the only way to go if SCing. i agree with the comments on here, the m45 s/c is too small. imo if you're serious about SC, the DASC has to be the way forward - i know its a lot of money, but their manifold etc is sex, and they now do a version for the e36, whereas before you had to be brave with an e36 one and mod all the bits. its a nice bolt-on reliable near 200bhp conversion, I'm sure there's potential for a few more horsies with some trickery too.

[Pharaoh]

Ok But back to my last question could i fit any make or model bodies to my car
like

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SUSUKI-GSXR-750-T ... dZViewItem

with some moding of course?

but would they fit..?

[Pal318is]

couple of things. firstly my ITBs are 50mm.
the 2.1 conversion wasn't just a longer crank, its got a much bigger bore. i'm running 86.6 x 88 so the engine is very nearly square, it revs to 7,150 at the mo, i need to make a few changes before i go higher (oil baffle mainly). The CR is just under 11:1. with my restrictionless intake, big ITBs and big cams soon to come and flowed head I should have some impressive figures.
The m42 engine really deserves some love. its smaller and lighter than the S14, cheaper to run, sits further back in the engine bay, has oil squirters for the pistons (only the sport evo has these iirc), hyd lifters etc and good sized inl and exh valves for good power while maintaining torque. rant over, now get modding guys.

as for superchargers, you guys never heard of DASC?! imo the only way to go if SCing. i agree with the comments on here, the m45 s/c is too small. imo if you're serious about SC, the DASC has to be the way forward - i know its a lot of money, but their manifold etc is sex, and they now do a version for the e36, whereas before you had to be brave with an e36 one and mod all the bits. its a nice bolt-on reliable near 200bhp conversion, I'm sure there's potential for a few more horsies with some trickery too.

Who the blouse is DASC tim?? Sounds interesting though...Search Engine time me thinks..

Pal

[tim_s]

Ok But back to my last question could i fit any make or model bodies to my car
like

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SUSUKI-GSXR-750-T ... dZViewItem

with some moding of course?

but would they fit..?

Yeah of course you could! Think its been done before. main obstacle would be sorting out the fuelling, I run megasquirt on mine, I don't think you'd get away with motronic with any amount of tweaking/bodging.

Who the blouse is DASC tim?? Sounds interesting though...Search Engine time me thinks..

Pal

http://www.downingatlanta.com/da_superc ... fo_new.htm

[Motorhole]

cooper S is 2 bar , surely not dude thats 30psi almost

sorry aint, my bad again. the super chargers start at 5psi and work up to 14psi

check these links out

http://www.capa.com.au/eaton_m45data.htm

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/to ... 0&f=66&h=0

found out some pretty good info on here too

Yep I was gonna say 14 Bar would be a HELL of a lot of boost!! 30Psi is about 2 bar I think...

[Pharaoh]

Cool so the megasquirt system is it a piggyback ECU or something else?
and how long did it take to fit... ?

[tim_s]

megasquirt is standalone ECU with open source software and a strong community developing both the hardware and software side of things.
Ant is the guru on here, and a true hero. helped me a lot with my install. its a pretty good system - you get a hell of a lot for your money, but you have to accept that it needs a bit more arsing around with as a result as its not as well packaged as more expensive systems.
its certainly not the only option, though, and I'm still not 100% as to whether its the best option. I'm beginning to like it, but it was quite a steep learning curve getting it working. Something like the perfect power piggybacks which would allow you to run a MAP or MAF sensor instead of the AFM may suit your needs and be a bit more straightforward. what i like about piggybacks like that (with a fairly simple ECU like ours) is that you are basing your tweaking on the standard motronic map which has had many thousands of hours of development into it and runs great, rather than starting from scratch as you have to with the megasquirt.

the advantage of megasquirt to me is that you can choose whether to run alpha-n/MAP/MAF whatever, choose any injectors you like etc, and ultimately its not a bodge - with a piggyback you're always fooling the existing ECU, and while i think this is fine for small adjustments, it could get tricky when the engine is substantially changed. little things like being able to just switch injectors for some larger ones, and being able to tweak the cranking pulsewidths for my bigger engine (the motronic was needing a lot of turning over to fire the bigger engine) are advantages of MS.

basically MS is a lot more work, allows you more control etc, but you have to start from scratch rather than starting with really good fuel and timing maps etc.

[mattay]

off subject but im savin up to supercharge my redtop an its a good mod if dun right an in the long run i thinks it better that a turbo but that just me i like to be diff

[stuartgallafant]

tim, you are a legend!!

[Pharaoh]

That is one hell of a bit of information Tim thanks mate.
As i am not going as mad as you on the engine tuning prob just the Throttle bodies and zorst.
I will look at a piggyback as i am not that tech minded to start from scratch.. But i will be using your guide on fitting them religiously.

[WillG]

sorry aint, my bad again. the super chargers start at 5psi and work up to 14psi

yeah thats just under 1bar, dont think you would get alot less cylinder filling on the IS compared to copper engine, I agree with maxfield about turbo being an easier option, hard part has to be finding a manifold with turbo but it shouldnt be that hard as its 4 cylinder, i think ant made one from one side of a M3 manifold. Its got to be eaiser then mounting supercharger and sorting pulleys out tho, probly easier to upgrade with turbo aswell

[stuartgallafant]

you get ridiculous cooling issues with turbo's though. and turbo lag

[Ant]

you get ridiculous cooling issues with turbo's though. and turbo lag

maybe on a badly thought out setup but mine runs @ 1/3 temp normally under full boost and will sit @ 1/2 all day long in traffic, and thats with a viscous fan dude.

As for lag, well, a correctly sized turbo and a decent map would see that as a thing of the past, the more you put in @ the planning stage, the easier the execution, and the end result will always be more than a sum of its parts.

I used M50 manifold runners on a custom M40 flange to do the 318iT, works rather well

Lets have a turbo iS soon guys.... and no piggyback wrongness