Bloody Swirls!!

[Jos]

Ok I have a lot of swirling on my car paint (Lachs silver) so it's the clearcoat that needs work.

There were a couple of monster scratches so I worked them out with G3, really suprised how well it worked! Now the issue is the swirls, I went over the bonnet with G3 lightly in an updown/sideside motion to clear the swirls out, then used Turtle Wax Swirl remover (much less abrasive, u can feel the difference) in a gentle swirl motion to clear the deeper updown lines made by the G3, then did another light rub with the Swirl remover in an updown fashion.

I can see the swirl pattern change with each pass, changed to updown then swirl then updown again... but... IT'S STILL THERE..

How the hell do I get rid of them? or is this just not possible by hand/with cheapish products. I tried using Gold Glass which is to my understanding a Polish/Wax rather than a wax to take the last of it out, but I can't seem to get rid of them..

Am I being too picky? Is there something I should be doing different? Or do I just need more patience and better stuff? Would G10 or proper finishing polish be the best option?

Will post some pics up when I get a chance, there isn't enough light to show it up at the moment. Looks great in light sun lol, then looks like it was washed with wirewool in sunlight

[c76jon]

pics will help me to see what id recommend as they speak 1000000000 words

what are you using to apply product and what are you using to remove product??

are you sing the g3 dry or on water soaked panel??

no you are not being too picky

you can achieve whatever you want.dont just settle for something you are not happy with

pics will help

john

[Jos]

Thanks for the pointers jon, always the man in the know. I will wait until dark I think to get the photos, it shows up really well under streetlighting and camera flash.

G3 is going on by have with a soft damp cloth onto slightly damp panel and coming off with those rolls of cloth u buy that leave dust everywhere, have also tried the electric polisher thing with a sheepskin? mitt on it.

I can't use the polisher with the turtlewax, I think its had it tbh, it's a real bollocks to get off even by hand.

I think the swirl remover is too abrasive, might see if I can get some finishing polish.

I am being a little picky, the paint on the car is very tired and 17 years worth of stonechips on it, the car is going for respray later in the year anyway (Techno Violet touring ftw!) so I don't want to use £Â£s of products on the paint. Good practice though

edit: just tried the camera on uberflash, still too much ambient light, will wait a while.

[c76jon]

theres major problems right there

those polishers with sheepskin nutsack hair on them are shite and that will be putting marks into laquer surface withoutr a doubt

the damp cloth thing and the rolls of whatever are also putting marks into your paint as you try to remove them

go to halfords

buy some MEGUIARS microfibre cloth.do not buy pound land wank stuff.buy some meguiars

its not the best in the world but its very good and it will massively massively reduce damage being caused

use these to remove product

for application

i recommend microfibre applicator pads but i dont think halfords do them

you are better to either use one of the microfibre cloths or some sponge applicators that halfords do do i think


believe me this is where most of your problems lie

fire the turtlae wax as far as humanly possible....stick with g3 for now.keep panel wet and work evenly make sure you are not trapping debris under cloth as this will introduce swirls.

say do third of bonnet at a time

when you have done that wash it off with clean water and dry it (with microfibre!!!!! or you will scratch again)

look at surface.keep working that surface til you are happy .

when you are move on to next panel

then put goldclass stuff on and remove with m/f

you will see a massive difference

i know you may be a little downheartened as you have put so much effort in so do say a wing with g3.be happy with it and just put some goldclass on and take a look.if this works this will give drive to do the rest as you know you will achieve really good finish

hth

john

[Jos]

Cheers for the tips jon, I had a suspicion that the cloths and stuff were part of the problem, I just had a chat with a guy that details Limos and wedding cars and he said pretty much the same thing. The other thing apparently is the laquer softens over the years making it very easy to mark.

He lent me a small quantity of stuff called Orbit finisher polish to try and it has improved things fantasically! It's now very hard to see any swirls or scoring in the area I have done, I will reserve real judgment until later when I can see it under streetlight.

The turtlewax has been burned in a bucket.. burns well with 0.5l of diesel/petrol mix in it along with some of the rags.

Is there any type of pad I can get for the polisher that I can use or are they best just avoided at this point and do it by hand? <my arms are hanging out of me>

There is a supplier to the trade I know of near me, he supplies almost all the valeters and car showrooms over here so will be breaking his door down on Monday morning, he should have most of the microfibre cloths there, will be disappointed if he's being outstocked by Halfrauds!

Regarding hand application techniques (oo-er missus!) to remove swirls should I be working in an updown/sideside motion for all the polish levels (G3 and finisher) then a swirl motion to apply the wax?
Infact I suppose on that it should be updown/sideside for bits that are swirled and swirl for bits like the A and C pillar which have been washed updown (against the grain as it were)

Thanks for all the help and support, yes its disheartening, think you are doing a nice job then it all goes to shit, ah well, learning curves..

[c76jon]

learnnig curves indeed!!! you will get there

rule of thumb i use

what ever way the wind will go over panel as you drive is the way you want to move cloth if that makes sense

any circular motion runs risk of putting more swirls in

i dont know about pad without seeing what polisher to be fair so pic would help

that laquer thing about it softening......not to my knowledge


18 year old laquer on mine

dark macau blue and a bitch as far as showing any kind of mark and using right kit no problems

patience is the key and soon as you work out what works for you it will all be a walk in the park

john

[Jos]

lol busy day, bought: 6 microfibre cloths, 2 applicators, 1l G3, 5l finishing polish and a lambswool mitt. Spent most of the morning working the fu*king huge scratches out then attacked it with the finisher polish, then waxed with Gold Class. It's about 500% better than it was, swirls are still there in direct sunlight but looks superb imo in all other light, arms have ran out of steam so not doing anymore to it, the paint is fubar anyway.






As u can see the swirls are still visible in bright sunlight but as they were visible in dull light before its a fairly impressive improvement, I did no swirling motions on any of the coats.. and they are still there lol, might be out of clearcoat before I get rid of them!!

[Dan318-is]

Dude that is exactly what is on basically every panel of my car! and i want rid of them!

is g3 just for scratches?

sorry if the questions have been asked before but im just starting to get in to all this polishing malarkie!

[billgatese30]

yeah dan, g3 is a medium/fine cutting compund designed to remove oxidisation and swirls

[Dan318-is]

chrikey. il need some of that then. i vaguely remember mr blacklaws mentioning it to me last nite!

im going to mint up each panel one at a time, swirl marks and scratches are bastards!

[billgatese30]

true, they are a pain in the arse, it will take time but god damn it will be worth the work

[Dan318-is]

iv only just taken an interest in it to be honest, im usually so busy fixing the other problems but the car is beginning to piece itself together. i invested in some meguirs paint cleaner/polish which works out nicely after a wash wish some warm water, but i think g3 is next to remove some of the major blemishes.

whats best for swirls did you say, baring in mind i no NOTHING about cleaning products cloths etc?!

[billgatese30]

depends on how bad they are, you could get a bottle of zaino zpc if they aren't too bad, or you could go for the g3, which i think is much more abrasive

someone who knows what they are on about would have to have a look to determine the best product, or alternativley wait for someone like jon to make another apperance on this thread and then badger him untill he gives in and offers to do it for you......although that might not work :lol:ask him anyway as he is far more knowledgeable than me on the subject and i'm sure he will point you in the right direction

[Dan318-is]

iv used tones of "anti swirl" meguirs stuff which doesnt seem to do the job. i mite have to use g3 for the bird poo too that the guy b4 hasnt cleaned off

think il invest in a bottle of g3 to start; what do i use to put on / take off?

[hammoj28]

Yeah i have heaps of thee swirls and cobwebby scratches. Have a bottle of g3 in my shed. How do you use it properly as i know its bloody strong stuf.

[Jos]

Sorry only just come back to here, G3 is pretty brutal yes, you can feel the abrasive in it. I used a damp microfibre polish applicator to put it on and a microfibre cloth to take it off again. All motions were along the length of the car, front/back for application and removal.

I have redone the roof and bonnet again since those shot and it has improved it again. I am using stuff called Orbit Car Polish from a valeting supplier over here which I have heard good reports about. It's just a very very mild cutting compound with some other stuff mixed in. Stinks to high heaven but it seems very good for removing very light scratches which the G3 will leave in it's wake. Tbh I don't think you can remove all cobwebs/swirls by hand, I think your arm would fall off long before you managed it. If you are serious about trying it by hand, stick to 1 panel at a time and work it until you are happy. But after an hour of doing the roof on the touring I could hardly hold onto the cloth..

The Megs antiswirl stuff is probably similar to the Orbit stuff I am using and won't be abrasive enough to take the deeper swirls out.

[FBF]

personally i would use G10 and a polishing sponge rather than buy hand. less aggressive but also faster. keep wet, dont let the panel get too hoot or you pay the price. i only use G3 after a 1500 grit rub down on new paint. im suprised you are getting any results by hand..

[Jos]

Agreed, machine polish would be a lot better. Hand polishing can improve things but you could probably shot putt for the Olympics before you could match a machine polish. But you can get improvements by hand, it's just very hard work. I had a fairly massive scratch/mark in the roof that I thought wouldn't come out, I can't even tell where it was now so the G3 does do something.

If it stops raining and the sun comes out I will rephoto the same area on the roof.

[geo1400]

I'm nearly finised project MOTand the next think is the bodywork. I've got a tech 2 kit which was painted on the cheap... and looks it!! It looks ok where the paint has actually stuck but its flaking off in places. Anyway gonna touch that up (don't want to spend loads on respray) and start polishing.

My prob is the car has picked up a couple of deep scratches while up on axle stands. I was gonna use t-cut or G3 but how would I do it, work on the scratches only or the whole panel?

Cheers Geo1400

[tomtomiS]

as a rule of thumb, if u can feel the groove in the scratch with ur finger nail then it wont polish out but u can take the edge off by machine polishing. yes its brutal, but then u ARE removing an amount of laquer/ paint. but done properly and not by some idiot who says they can mop when they cant. if u spend plenty of time, dont rush, keep the polisher moving and the paint wet u will be fine. ive seen valeters who have had steam coming off the paint! as long as u use a decent compound like g3 and g10 u will get good results. microfibre is the best cloth u can use. if u can get hold of it, autosmart do good polishes which help stop the swirls coming back as do meguars and autoglym. by the way, use a hard sponge to start with, progressing to a softer pad when ur nearly done, follow that u with a waffle pad to apply plenty of machine glaze to keep swirls at bay. this stuff helps blend the paint back and can help hide a bad paint job. all decent body shops use this stuff after repairs to protect the paint so they can supply the stuff i presume