Starting my M30 swap into an E30

[brent_strong]

So, the current plan is to take an E34 M30 and a Getrag from an E30 M3 and put it into the 325i that I bought last week. As of today, I have a mostly stock 1987 325i. In it currently is a Sparco EvoII seat (fat kid edition) and over the next few days or weeks, I'll be installing the passenger's side EvoII or Pro2000 seat and a harness bar for the Sparco 5 point harnesses that I have to go in the car.

After that, I'll be tackling the M30 swap. Right now, I only have the transmission in my possession, but hopefully will be picking up the M30 from a 1990 535i on Sunday.

Here are a few random photos of some good German parts my friend and I have around his garage. Hopefully I'll be able to find some photos of my car soon and post those as well. I intend to keep this as a project log and a simple helping hand or source of information for people looking to do a similar swap.

The car on the left is mine. My friend owns the E30 on the right and is making it into an ice racer and winter beater. It survived last winter with some body damage but great mechanical integrity.



My very tired M20. Yes, that is a cone filter on the AFM. No, I didn't put it there, it came on the car.



Here are the 3 Getrag transmissions we had around. A 280 from an M5, my 265 from an E30 M3, and a 260 from a 325is.



Bellhousing comparison, since it was a bit of a debate if the M3 265 (stamped a 262) would fit on an M30.

Getrag 280 (bolts to an S38, M30 and probably others)


Getrag 265 (same pattern as the 280)


Getrag 260 (small 6 pattern for the M20)



260, 265, 280



S38b36 on the stand, the valve cover from the S38 and the 280, 265, 260 again.





So, this is the start. I need to source a lot more parts and do tons of work to get things going, but these are the first steps!

[rosscoe]

looks like fun m8,good luck wi it

[brent_strong]

Well, I went to get the engine on Sunday and have started to pull it apart to check it's health and replace maintenance parts. I live in Rochester, NY and the engine was ~350 miles away in Brooklyn, NY. We traveled there to pick up my engine and then, about 10 miles away, pick up another E30 for a friend of mine and trailer it back. Driving a trailer through New York City was VERY interesting and quite stressful, but it all turned out fine.

This is the road the shop was on which I bought me engine from. It must be the only dirt road in Brooklyn. Quite a shady area - I think the shop was actually a chop shop for stolen cars.


Crammed into the back of my friend's Jeep. I was surprised at how easily the engine went in and came out; I was expecting to have to work much harder to transport it.


On the stand, ready to be torn into.




Comparison of the M20 and M30 exhaust manifolds. The port size difference is huge, as is the simple physical size difference in the manifolds. It should be much easier to make power with the M30.




A mop of wiring. I'm hoping to eliminate most or all of this by using a Megasquirt ECU and GM sensors. I was surprised at how many unused wires there were in the harness. The harness seemed to have been prewired for a lot of features/functions/sensors not present on the M30.


Exhaust manifolds came right off, even with the rusty hardware. I'll be ordering all new hardware from Pelican to replace the weather worn stock equipment.


3.5L of goodness!


That is all for now. I may strip more off of the engine today if I have the time. I'm hoping to be able to get the head off of the block soon so I can inspect the bores and decide if I need to do a bottom end rebuild or if I can just replace the head gasket and put it back together.

[gareth]

that looks like a very dodgy area!!!

throwing the M30 in the back of your mates nice shiny jeep looks risky!!! did you damage anything?

i bought a vauxhall (GM) van for £50 (about $75 i think) to get me about for the few weeks i was doing the conversion and to move bits about. no worries about breaking anything!


the E32 735i donor car only cost me £100 ($150 ish) with 100k on the clock!


i've got a load of pics here should you wanna have a rummage. beware, some cheesy poses in there!!!
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v382/ ... i%20donor/
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v382/ ... onversion/

[brent_strong]

I'm taking a look at the photos now. The M30 actually sat quite well in the Jeep. We laid it on the exhaust side and wedged it in with some wood bits to keep it from shifting. We had no problems with it moving at all during the trip. Of course, we also were towing a trailer, so the vehicle was not accelerating or stopping quickly.

[Andy335Touring]

Whilst you have it apart gasket match the exhaust manifold, you will find a lip of 1-2 mm to grind off on most of the ports, free mods are the best ones

[gareth]

it's best to have a slightly larger bore on the manifold to create an anti-reversal effect.

no sure how much though...

[Andy335Touring]

it's best to have a slightly larger bore on the manifold to create an anti-reversal effect.

no sure how much though...

M10man says 1-2mm i think, but i'm just happy to get rid of the lip TBH

[brent_strong]

I have the engine apart now. It is in relatively poor shape. Looks like I'll be doing a full rebuild. The good news is that the bore look great; even the crosshatching is intact. The bad news is that at least 3 of the 6 cylinders have pistons with completely shot rings. The head seems to be ok, but since it is off, I will have it cleaned and reassembled, possibly with new valve guides and such.

I need to decide on a route for the bottom end. I'm thinking I will go with some strong rods and a set of pistons to bring compression to 8.5:1. Possibly will overbore slightly as well.

All in all, it was a bittersweet day. The project is getting expensive, but should come out better in the end.

[LKTe30]

are you using a m30b34 or b35

if you are using the m30b35 the stock CR should be 9:1

I am also currently doing a full rebuild on a m30b35 and probably going to get custom pistons made to go up to 10.5:1 which i think the stock rods will be able to handle with probably a .5 overbore. Then getting all the head work done P/P, 284 cam. dual valve springs, etc.

glad to see someone else doing a whole rebuild that I can reference while I am doing mine

keep up the good work

[brent_strong]

I'm using a b35. When I rebuild, I plan to drop the CR a bit to accommodate some boost in the near future. The rough plan as of now is to swap it NA, get the bugs worked out with the Megasquirt setup and the swap in general and then start on the turbo setup.

Do you have a project thread as well? I'd be interested to see what you've been doing.

[brent_strong]

Ok, so here are the photos that I promised last night.

First order of business was getting the intake manifold off.


Pulling the head bolts. How oiled are they supposed to be? They seemed to be sitting in a pool of oil. I was always under the impression that you only want to lightly oil head bolts...


She's ready to come off. The moment of truth that will let me know if I need a full rebuild or not.


...and it's apart. The rings seem pretty loose when I tap the pistons with a hammer, but the bores are in very good condition. I think my best bet is a full bottom end rebuild, providing there are no spun bearings that gouged up the crank.

So, now I need to start researching what I want to rebuild the engine with and sourcing more parts.

[Bat-Fink]

Cool project mate.

[LKTe30]

I don't have a thread yet b/c I havent got much done besides research and having bought an already disassembled engine and gathering a few parts. But once I start I will make a thread.

If only you had started this a month ago I had some low comp pistons for this engine I could have sold you since I decided to go high comp n/a.

[Andy335Touring]

Pulling the head bolts. How oiled are they supposed to be? They seemed to be sitting in a pool of oil. I was always under the impression that you only want to lightly oil head bolts...

Thats normal, when you reasemble lightly oil the threads(like you said) and also oil the bolt head and washer.

Coinsidentaly(sp?) i've just put my head back on today and (partly) re-fitted the engine to the car, i hope to be back on the road soon !

Gear box bolted up but no engine mounts yet as it started raining and the light was running out

[gareth]

do you reckon it'll be ready for santa pod?

mine is likely to be running but arrive on a tailer!

[brent_strong]

Looks great! I'm so jealous!!

[Andy335Touring]

do you reckon it'll be ready for santa pod?

If nothing go's wrong i should be there, touch wood !

Looks great! I'm so jealous!!

Cheers dude, sorry for the mini hi-jack of your thread.

[brent_strong]

No problem, it gives me more motivation to get things back together. I've been doing research all day today about upgraded components for the M30.

[DRIFTBOY]

When I put mine together I had my head ported and skimmed (not to raise compression but just to make sure it was flat, so bare minimum taken off) and the inlet manifold matched to the ports. After 186000 miles the crank didn't even need regrinding! so just had the journals polished.
The bloke who did the work charged me £350 for that lot which I was pleased with and he had it done in the time he said he would!
I fitted a Schrick camshaft too, might be worth you thinking along those lines for power - as well as other mods too!?

[brent_strong]

Well, I'm not dead! Just been busy with schoolwork here and there hasn't been a whole lot going on with the E30 or the M30.

Been slow with updates because the progress has been slow. I've been talking a lot with Pat Philpot about what I should do for a bottom end (he owns Big Red, 650ish hp 535i). Looks like over the winter I'll be sending the engine down to him to have some of his custom pistons put in at 8.2:1 compression.

Looking into rod options now. I have access to a set of S38b36 rods that I may use if they're stronger and will fit, but I haven't figured that out. I still need to pull the oil pan off and check out my crank and then compare the rods to the S38 ones.

Last week, I ordered a set of the E30.de mounts from Timo. Other than that, I'm watching the chassis get slowly worse from an electrical standpoint, but that's ok since I don't drive it much. I want to tear into the main body harness connector on the driver's side and see if that is the cause of all my issues. Currently I have no working gauges, the blower motor has stopped working and occasionally half of the brake/tail lights won't work. Brick wall

I'm also worried that the headgasket may have gone on the M20 in the car now. Overheated enough to smoke recently when it was idling for ~15 minutes and I'm nearly sure that the accessory fan comes on. #4 is still not hitting and occasionally the ignition fully (or mostly) cuts out. I find it funny, actually. I don't have the time or the desire to look into those issues though, since I don't need the car for reliable transportation and I don't plan on spending any money fixing the M20.

[Andy335Touring]

Been slow with updates because the progress has been slow. I've been talking a lot with Pat Philpot about what I should do for a bottom end (he owns Big Red, 650ish hp 535i). Looks like over the winter I'll be sending the engine down to him to have some of his custom pistons put in at 8.2:1 compression.

Looking into rod options now. I have access to a set of S38b36 rods that I may use if they're stronger and will fit, but I haven't figured that out. I still need to pull the oil pan off and check out my crank and then compare the rods to the S38 ones.

Are you going for a high boost/power set up ?

So i've been told it's revs that will kill rods more than boost(to a point). I think i've read that Alpina used M5 rods in their higher reving N/A B10 engine but not in the twin turbo B10 motor ?

M5 rods are supossed to be longer so you will have to factor this into the design of your pistons.

[brent_strong]

Goals are 400-450whp on a daily driveable setup - pump gas, no hassles. Maybe 500-550whp if I go all out. I just thought that if the S38b36 rods were an upgrade, I'd put them in since they're just sitting around. From what I hear, the stock M30 rods would be ok for my goals.

[brent_strong]

So, I made some very minor progress now that I've finished my finals here at school. I took apart the bottom end, removing everything but the crankshaft. The crank and bores look to be in great condition, which is a relief!



Looks to be some significant side loading on the skirt. I see why people would be interested in going with a longer rod with this engine.


...and our collection of random engines. Starting from the bottom (with the red rags), going clockwise - M30b35, imported JDM STi 2.0L engine, Porsche 944 Turbo engine, S38b36


Well, this is it until I find someone to source internals and assemble the engine. Ideally, I'll get Pat Philpot to do it, but if that falls through, I'll source the parts myself and have a local machine shop do the machining while I do the assembly. We shall see, but the project is still under way!

[Andy335Touring]

Looks to be some significant side loading on the skirt. I see why people would be interested in going with a longer rod with this engine.

The ones i took out of my cracked block had similar wear on them, i think it's normal ?

[brent_strong]

As far as I can tell (and from what I have heard), yes, that is normal. I'd guess it would be a cause for concern in a low mileage engine, but I believe mine had well over 150k miles on it. I suspect that poor rings may have accelerated the wear on my piston, but I'm unsure of that.