E36 Advice

Discuss Non-E30 BMW's in here - No selling!

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m3ben05
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Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:08 am

Very good advice guys demlot/geeman - woman that like you for the car you drive are not worth the effort. Base your car choice on what you want and sod everyone else :D
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Chris-W
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Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:09 am

Find someone who'll stick with you despite the car you have.
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Dominitry
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Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:31 am

She is sticking with me lol, shes not the reason boys i was just pointing out she likes e36's better than e30's.
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Chris-W
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Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:33 am

Sorry - just so used to your relationship-advice-seeking posts :)
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Dominitry
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Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:35 am

Oh theyre not relationship advice posts they just slags lol, different now, i dunno what to do, sport grr.
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Chris-W
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Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:36 am

I bought and E36 on Saturday. It's only been here for 3Âa days and already I hate having it around.

Not saying they're bad. I just have a prejudiced hatred for them.
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hammoj28
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Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:05 pm

Hmm, just keep the sport. Its different and individual. Everyone and their mums got an e36 now!
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Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:24 pm

lol - My mum's had two E36's... both of them Evo's... an Estoril Blue 4-door and a Dakar Yellow Coupe. Both amazing cars... anything less is not worth having (apart from a nice 328i Sport).

Get an E34 525i Sport or something... a bit of character!
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Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:14 pm

Nooooo cant do big cars lol, if only i could have both :(

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mazit
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Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:08 pm

Dunx wrote:E36 is the way forward dude ;)
at least someone is on the right track.
Dude as someone said you will still have issues with leaving the car, if your going to buy one which is the natural progression then you'll get a half decent one which means you will worry about it being scratched etc.

I have had 2 e30's and now got a E36 318is coupe no mods but still looks clean and engine is healthy. Compared to some that I have seen this is nothing speceial but I think its great and love her to bits :drive:
Thinking about it you may be better of looking at a site which has more E36 members something like http://www.bimmerowner.co.uk
For Sale £1200 ono E36 coupe 318is alloys, beige leather Interior, m Tech rear spoiler, M3 Steering wheel, gear knob.
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treble_c
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Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:29 am

Mate i got rid of my e30 325i for an e36 328i only because some tw4t wrote my e30 off. I loved it to bits and had spent about £4000 on it, not including the car itself. HOWEVER, when i got in the e36 its a completely different animal, its quicker, obviously, but doesn't FEEL as if its as quick as it really is as it does in the e30 as the e36 has a better build quality 80mph feels like 80 mph in the e30 and as a result is much more fun to drive, you get real steering feedback from it more so than the e36. The e36 however handles a lot better and i'm sorry if being a newbie on here again will upset people with my views but thats just the way it is. I'm sorry but the e36's rear z axle is far better than the e30's trailng arm set up - but so it should be - it is after all a newer design.THe e30's looks are old skool kewl, its a timeless shape, and a look thats in fashion at the moment as its boxy retro, yet the e36's lines were a mammoth leap forward in sleekness and aerodynamics, and a clean mtech kitted one looks still pretty much up to date
Speaking from experience were i have owned and STILL DO OWN both types i'd say its different strokes for different folks, the e30 is a classic shaped, more driver involved car and a lot of fun but thats not to say the e36 is bland. Its a rewarding car to drive thats very capable indeed and a good looker to boot. Oh and running and repair costs nedd not be compared as they are very much the same, the only real difference i've noticed is that my MPG around town was roughly the same in the 328 as the 325 yet on a motorway run the 328's MPG is far superior, getting to aroung 35-37mpg at a steady 80-90mph.

Hope that helps mate, i'd just say don't let your heart rule your head :wink:
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mazit
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Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:07 am

Treble_c, that's quite a write up,do you work for a car magazine or something very enjoyable and interesting read top gear may havea job for ya dude.
For Sale £1200 ono E36 coupe 318is alloys, beige leather Interior, m Tech rear spoiler, M3 Steering wheel, gear knob.
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treble_c
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Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:55 pm

ha ha no dude, i don't write for anyone, and tbh i thought my writing skills were a bit limited to say the least but thanks.
Back on topic my views still stand though, the only afterthought i'd hasten to add is i'm finding the e36 is becoming the new e30, and likewise the e30 is becoming the new e21 in terms of parts and aftermarket items. If you're looking to venture away from std, LOOKS wise, or are trying to find bits at a breakers yard, the e30 can be increasingly difficult to find bits for - food for thought.
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mazit
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Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:40 pm

Hmmm classics are like that. Just need to look up the specilaist breakers, there is one which is good where I got a drive shaft from the name escapesme but canlook 4 it ifany one needs it
For Sale £1200 ono E36 coupe 318is alloys, beige leather Interior, m Tech rear spoiler, M3 Steering wheel, gear knob.
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treble_c
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Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:04 am

Totally disagree on the "flimsy" tag there bud, we're talking about a BMW, not a fiat punto, you can't say its strong AND flimsy in the same sentence, its a complete contradiction.
E36's are well screwed together, even moreso than the E30. FACT.
It would be unfair of me to say that the E36 was a better built car than the new E90 wouldn't it? Why, because as technology and manufacturing processes evolve, they get better. The e36 could be described ( and was described) by some as being bland and not as invoving as the e30, but this is just a harsh reality of how cars are now, and were beginning to then, become more safety focused, and therefore seem to "cocoon" the driver away from the so called dangers of being really involved in the driving, and therefore blunt the feel of knowing exactly how your car is behaving by every little bump and camber on the road, which you could do in the e30. This can be misinterpreted into making you think the car is pure shite, and another run of the mill sheep wagon for the masses to drive. Take my point here though, the e30 being seen as the daddy as you put it is only what we concieve at this moment in time, because its from the time we had grown or were growing up. When i got my e30 325i in 1998 i thought it was the dogs cock and so did everyone else, i got my e36 in 2004 and thought that was too, and so did everyone else. Got another e30 2 months ago and told everyone and the only reason people gave a toss was because i said i was tracking it and they commented on how it would be good fun.
People forget you see mate, and in another 5 years, no one will care unless its a 330ci e46 you've got, the it'll be you've gotta have the 335i turbo e92 ( All barring the M cars of course as these will always be sought after
).

Fact is, your dad probably saw the 2002 as the daddy, or the batmobile CSL, whereas they do nothing for me. Okay i know they were great cars in their time and can appreciate them for what they are today, but they don't exactly blow my hair back in todays terms.

An enthusiast will always have the model thats close to their hearts for whatever reason, and proclaim how good it is compared to the rest of the watered down toss on sale today, but the true facts are as cars get newer, as a rule of thumb they get better at what they are designed to do. Take the M3 for example, the e30 is iconic. The ORIGINAL AND BEST M3, yep its a great car alright, and will embarass a lot of machinery on the track, but look at the e36 m3 in terms of WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO..............GO FAST AROUND A TRACK. It would slay the e30 m3, nevermind about all this loss of driver feedback crap, it does what it does, better than its predecessor. The e46 m3 would whoop the e36's arse and so on. ///M engineers look at the finished article and say "job done there fella's, its better than the last one" and thats ALL they have to do to prove its successful. Remember the streetka that Tiff beat the e30 M3 with around a track? Embarrasing wasn't it, but i know neither you or i would have a streetka hairdresser wagon as a track day car 'cos it could beat an e30 m3 on a few tracks. The point of the last sentence is to prove to people how far car technology has come in the last 15-20 years, so its folly to dismiss something as inferior just because we like a certain cars characteristics better. OK so its not all about how fast something is that makes it good or bad or better or worse, but comparing BMW's of same model but different generation and declaring how one is pure cack because we own the other is not strictly fair is it?? I know i'm probably preaching to the wrong crowd here as this is an e30 site, but i'm just trying to say that its better to not be so blinkered sometimes because of what we possess. Yes the E30 does have a classic shape and we all love them, but don't be suprised when you tell your kids in 20 years time how great they are and they don't share your enthusiasm because they'd rather you bought an RSSTGTIphantombunnyhopperturbo, because THATS the new retro car to have, and anything built before 2018 is just a waste of space.

Phew, just my £6.86's worth :D
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treble_c
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Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:44 pm

Thanks mate, thought i was going to get flamed here for my comments, especially as a newbie, when all i really wanna do is try and make people see the bigger picture. PLease don't undervalue a model or car because you see the model you own as a direct comparison/evolution of the model you have, and therefore become very protecrive. Trying to stay on topic its all about offering SOUND advice with regards to the question being asked........i.e are e36's any good? Answer, well err, yes mate.
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Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:32 pm

Hmmm, iv been in a few e36's and i would say my e30 318 IS feels much better on corners than any of them. Not keen on the e36, one bit. Infact iv heard bmw car magazines stating that it has much better build quality and handles better than the newer yet "sloppier" e36. Sorry, but thats just my input. The e30 is a better car in my opinion and many others.

The e36 is also much heavier. The e30 models will out accelerate all of the e36 rivals. Such as the e30 318IS is nearly a second faster 0-60 than the e36 318IS.

Another thing is that total bmw magazine states that the e30 was the car that cemented bmw's success. Does that mean nothing?

My mate drives an e36 325tds, ok its a nice looking car but hes well jealous of my e30 and im pretty sure hes gonna get one soon.

The e36 in my opinion is a car for the masses. There are so many of them popping up everywhere. I would say that the e30 is a proper drivers car and much more individual with better looks, better handling and performance. Ok the base model 318/316i are not great but cars, but the 318IS, 320 IS 325 sport and M3 are amazing. Dont even get me started on e30 m3's vs e36 M3s.

If someone wants an e36 then they can have one. im not bothered. I like the e30 more and think its a better car.

Im not trying to flame anyone here either. Just my input. :D
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treble_c
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Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:33 am

THe e36 325tds is hardly a fair comparison though is it? i mean its probably a saloon version with a less than inspiring motor in it, and also being the saloon version will have the std diesel suspension which was hrrdly made for barreling it around in, unlike your 318is. take the e36 325i coupe for example compared to an e30 325i coupe, which being the e36 coupe will have at LEAST the m tech tuned suspension, which came as standard on all coupes, so no unfair comparisons here, just boggo factory spec ( the sports came with the even better full mtech/bilstein avus pack remember, so we cannot compare the std suspension to the e30's bilstein setup, as this would be comparable to the above stated avus pack). The e36 is quicker both in a straight line and point to point, so your statement of the e30 range being quicker than its e36 comparables is untrue. As said in my previous reply, the e36's z axle as revealed in the z1 is by far a superior design to that of the trailing arm set up in the e30, so the handling argument is out of the window too. Its not just percieved by me either, yes i own both types of 3 series so i think my opinion is valid, just sitting as a passenger in one, or having a go of someone elses and being a little tentative incase you wrap it up isn't good enough i think, as this can blur your perception whereas having a real good hoon around in both which are your own gives a fairer comparison,but the hard facts speak for themselves, the e36 is quicker in every aspect, like for like types. I think if i drove a dirty derv 325tds, i'd be jealous of a revvy, nice looking e30 318is too. I've sasid b4 that the e30 is a better drivers car in terms of feedback etc, read my posts, i'm not biased, but saying an e30 is better built than an e36 defies belief. Yes the early e36's that were built in belgium were dogged with build problems, and these are the models the motoring press would have been quoting on, however, once the e30 was phased out, the e36 was then built in germany and was built as it was intended. i.e solidly, and any thoughts of dodgy quality went out of the window.By the way,the e36 318is has a 10.2secs 0-60 and the e30 has a 9.9, so not a lot in it, and certainly not the over a second quoted by yourself, in fact look across all the range and see the e36 beats the e30 in NEARLY ALL 0-60 sprints and top speeds, contrary to your statement. In fact, the only e30 which is quicker than its e36 counterpart is the 318is, the model which you have quoted, and the late e30 316i which has a slower top speed but is 0.3 of a second quicker to 60 in a dazzling 12 seconds dead.....woo hoo.As for the m3 comparisons, i'll agree the e36 FEELS watered down compared to the e30, but i've already conceded this point for the whole of the range in terms of driver feedback/experience. However, check out how quick, and i mean truly around bends and in a straight line quick, the e36 m3 is compared to the e30 m3 and you'll witness the later car absolutely cream the older one around a track and on a drag strip. Look at test times for both cars around the nordschliefe, hard facts my friend showing the e36 to be the quicker car, which is what it was designed to be. Check out later press views on the e36 compared to the e30 and you'll see that my views are backed up. As PBMW write "....improved chassis.......Early cars dogged by quality problems......criticised for not being as involved as its predecessor. Better on the limit handling and road holding than the e30......"

And all from a mag that should both know its onions about BMW's (as thats what they write about solely) and not be biased as it reports on all models. :wink:

My post isn't designed to aggravate anyone mate but i'm trying to point to facts and figures here, aswell as an opinion. Its all well and good saying that you prefer one to the other just because, or for reasons backed up as fact, thats fair point, but stating things that are untrue like speed, handling etc is another case that cements my point of enthusiasts looking at everything to do with their pride and joy through rose tinted specs. If you like the e30 better then thats fair dincum, each to their own and the worlds a better place for it. But choose the car that suits you for what your needs and expectations are. I'd hate to point out to someone how good a car is because of my own opinions, only to find that this isn't really the case, and i've told someone a few white lies, to then find that they're dissapointed with their new whip as its not really as fast/chuckable/involved etc etc delete as appropriate as i'd made it out to be
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Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:57 am

O.k maybe its not a good comparison with the whole 325tds thing. But the fact is that even bmw magzines have stated that the handling is better and more positive makes me think that its true.

Firstly on acceleration. Taken from Total BMW mag:

E30 316: 10.1
E36 316: 13.1

E30 318i: 10
E36 318i: 11.5

E30 318IS:9.3(pretty sure its faster tho)
E36 318IS:10.2

E30 325 sport:7.9
E36 325:8

Sorry but that to me seems like the majority of the e30's are faster 0-60 than the e36's to me.


The article i read tested all the M3's ever built and they chose the E30 out of them. Also, the e30 M3 is known as i drivers car and a better machine. Ok, i know for a fact that it is slightly slower than the e36 on acceleration but it is meant to out perform it in the twisties. The e30 M3 was ahead of its time when it was built and bmw really went to pot with it. Basically a race car on the road. it also took touring car by storm and is qouted to be the best touring car ever built. It is also one of the most rewarding cars to drive or so i have been told a million times over. I can see why too. In my opinion the e30 m3 deserves far more respect and is a better car. but thats me.

Im not trying to aggrivate anyone and i know you aren't either. I dont see why i stated untrue as the figures(taken from the latest total bmw mag) above show. Therefore my point is right. The majority of e30's do out perform the e36's in acceleration.

I totally agree with you that the world is a better place for people having different opinions.
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treble_c
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Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:01 am

Fair play mate but heres the PBMW figures, e30 first then e36, 0-60 then top whack
316i: 12.0 109.............12.3 117

318i: 11.5 115.............11.3 123

318is: 9.9 126............10.2 132

320i: 10.4 123.............9.9 133

325i: 8.3 135.............8.0 144

m3: 6.7 146............6.0 162

m3 evo sport: 6.2 154

m3 evo: 5.5 155

All taken from the latest PBMW mag,

incedentally hammo, its nice to have a civil debate with someone who has a difference of opinion with you, yet doesn't see their arse if you don't agree with them so nice one mate. I guess we'll agree to disagree about those times eh? But seriously mate, i know the e36 328i is quoted at 7.3 to 60 in the later mags and yet 6.4 to 60 in the early mags, and autocar did a 6. odd to 60 with all the pro timing gear in their mag on the then new road test. Also the 8.3 quoted for the e30 325i was quoted as 7.2 in the early mags (and i've seen as low as a 6.9 for std in one particular feature, yet that said 7.2 in the stats near the back of the mag in the same issue, go figure???),and also the e36 325i quoted at 7.0 for the 0-60 dash, so i guess they can't decide for themselves. Owning both the two five and two eight, i'd say they're both quicker than the now quoted times so maybe we'll have to get up to santa pod hey, what do you reckon? RRRAAAAAAARRRRR!!!!!! :wink:

And yep, the e30 m3 is the better car in terms of the driving experience it offers IMO, although the e36 m3 is the quicker car, the relatively poorer driver feedback means the e30 is hailed as the ulltimate m3, probably rightly so, only now with the e46 m3 has BMW done itself justice with involving the driver again, yet thats not what i'm saying dude. I'm meerly stating the quicker of the 2 cars, and from the ///M engineers point that this was the main goal of the e36 m3, to be quicker in all aspects, and yes it was achieved , but the essence of the e30 was lost and i agree this was poor. Just because the e36 was quicker, did not make it a better car from a drivers point of view, however on paper, and certainly around a track it WAS the better performer, and that is generally the view of most people as to what makes it the better car - rightly or wrongly. As for the rest of the e36 range though mate, remember the m3 has a totally different suspension geometry setup from all other e30's and i think the e30 range - m3 apart - gives a lot away in the handling dept to the newer car. Thats why the e30 m3 is so different to the rest of the range suspension wise, it HAD to be to make it the touring car force it was, the std setup was simply not good enough, whereas look at the e36 m3, apart from a few tweaks with eccentric bushes for castor differences and camber plates, its basically the same as the rest of the e36 range goemetrically speaking as the e36's supension was already "all new". Remember, the e30's suspension is essentially based on the e21's and look how old that is
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Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:33 am

treble_c & hammoj28


good to see a nice clean debate! Both submit good and well reasoned points, and I think it comes down to this...

The e30 (especially on this forum) is viewed as a "classic" but still usable everyday car. Certainly it has its shortcomings with regards to spec/ handling etc, but as a first or second car for a young driver its still streets ahead of the citroen saxo's, pug 106, ford escort that drivers could afford.

It is an easy car to modify and maintain, supported by a large band of suppliers and enthusiasts. Also, the majority of examples are not bangers, due to the "thinning out" of cars when they went through their "chav" stage.

The e36 is now in that stage, with many a tired 4door 316i plastered with sunstrip and lexus lights. In time, the e36 will thin out to leave a selection of well looked after and desirable models.

On the point of performance, hammoj28 posted the 0-60 times and treble_c the top speeds- ask yourself this, which are you more likely to use on a daily basis? the e30 is lighter in design due to the less advanced mechanicals/construction used in it, so is faster like for like (interesting to note that the e36 325i needs the 191hp to get to within .1 of a second of the m20....)

Certainly, the e36 did provide a lot of advancement with regards to the engines/ suspension design, but overall, I feel the package lost something...

The e36 is a more competent package all round in terms of "fresh out the packet", as treble_c points out, an e36 evo would cane an e30 evo round a track in the hands of a FAIRLY competent driver.

However, as an Experience, in terms of feeling and enjoyment, the e30 walks it, you feel part of the car. If I had to do 500 miles a day, and had a choice between an e30 325i with comfort cloth seats and an e36 with air con, full leather etc, I'd still take the e30, beause I'd enjoy every mile of that journey.

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Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:34 am

Well you see i dont agree, i really dont think that the E36 ultimately a better handling car than the E30. The only advantages it has is better mid corner balance, and i really dont think the E36 Evo would 'Cane' a E30 evo, have you ever seen the BTG times for both cars on the Ring? No i dont think any of you have.

Andrew
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Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:23 pm

I have heard of e30 m3's putting out better lap times than e36 m3's just because of the way it handles.

The difference between the e30 m3 and the e36 is that the e30 m3 is a homologated race car for the road(therefore its going to be a better driver package) whereas the e36 m3 isn't that different as other e36 models. Ie is shares more parts, if you see what im trying to say?lol.
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Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:40 pm

Ex e30 owner speak:

I loved driving my e30, I liked the driving position the way it seemed close to the deck, there was no body roll, but it wasn't overly harsh on your backside. Its all very well talking about which is the better handling car, but you can't make a decent comparison on uk roads or dare i say it tesco car parks. :o

The e36 was produced for, what, 9 years? Do you think they'd have really carried on producing them if it really was a bad car. The e36 is the safer car, airbags and probably better crumple zones, hence it put on weight, as well as being physically bigger.

So whilst the e36 may take some of the driver involvement out, things like TC, it was built for a changing market. It wasn't built in mind to handle 10 x better than every other coupe/saloon, it was built to give a safer smoother drive.

At the end of the day, as JonB would say, e36's carpets don't smell of wet dog all the time. Not smashing the e30, love them to bits(especially after seeing a nice tech1 today) but it had its flaws and advantages:

Engine
gearbox
no electric aids
and that was it

And for me that made a very enjoyable car to drive, as well as looking in my opinion better than the e36.

The engines also advanced quite a lot(6 pots) finally gaining a 24v head rather than a lazy 12v, so i think they improved on the e30, except for 2 things, driver involvement and looks.


Would i have a an e30 or and e36...

e30 everytime, better looking car, pushes the right buttons for ME.
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treble_c
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Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:58 am

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7:43 --- Porsche 996 911 GT3 RS, factory test driver Walter Rohrl, MOTOR Magazine
7:43.5 - Lamborghini Murcielago (Autocar magazine, 2002)
7:44 --- Pagani Zonda C12S (07/2003)
7:45 --- Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 (12/2000)
7:46 --- Porsche 996 GT2
7:46 --- SHK Porsche 993 GT2, 652 PS (1999)
7:47 --- Porsche 996 GT3 RS, 381PS (996) (2004)
7:49 --- Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
7:50 --- BMW E46 M3 CSL (08/2003)
7:50 --- Blitz Supra, 750 PS, Herbert SchÃÂarg (1997)
7:50 --- Honda RC30, Helmut Daehne (1993)
7:50 --- Lamborghini Murcielago (06/2002)
7:52 --- Gemballa Porsche 911 Le Mans (1995)
7:52 --- Lamborghini Gallardo E-Gear (12/2003)
7:52 --- Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren (06/2004)
7:54 --- Porsche GT3 (996) (2003)
7:55 --- Caterham R500 Superlight (2002)
7:56 --- Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale (02/2004)
7:56 --- Porsche 996 Turbo
7:56 --- Honda NSX-R - Motoharu Kurosawa, Best MOTORing
7:56 --- Chevrolet Corvette CE Z06 >>> link
7:56 --- Chevrolet Corvette C6 (tested by Dave Hill)
7:57 --- Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo, 600 PS, racing suspension
7:59 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Performance Chassis) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:02 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Sport PASM setting) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:03 --- Porsche 996 GT3 (1999)
8:04 --- Lamborghini Diablo GT (07/2000)
8:05 --- Ferrari 575M Maranello F1 (12/2002)
8:05 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Normal PASM setting)(Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:06 --- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG
8:06 --- Caterham 7 Superlight R, Robert Nearn
8:06 --- Subaru Impreza Sti spec C - Motoharu Kurosawa, Best MOTORing
8:07 --- Ferrari 550 Maranello (06/1998)
8:09 --- Honda NSX-R 3.2 (08/2002)
8:09 --- Ferrari 360 Modena (10/1999)
8:09 --- Lamborghini Diablo SV (no ABS?)
8:10 --- Chrysler Viper GTS, 411PS, UK-Spec, no ABS (10/1997)
8:10 --- Donkervoort D8 180R
8:11 --- Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX (video here)
8:12 --- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG (04/2002)
8:12 --- Porsche 993 Turbo
8:13 --- Lotus Esprit Sport 350, 354 PS (05/1999)
8:13 --- Dodge Viper SRT-10, 506 PS (10/2004)
8:13 --- BMW M5 (E60) (12/2004)
8:15 --- Ruf 911 CTR 2, 520 PS
8:15*-- Holden GTS (2000), *estimated
8:15 --- Porsche 911 Carrera 2 (997) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:16 --- AC-Schnitzer E36 M3 CLS II, 350 PS (11/1997)
8:16 --- AC Schnitzer Z4 V8 Topster (01/2005)
8:17 --- Aston Martin Vanquish (2003)
8:17 --- Porsche 996 C2
8:18 --- BMW Z8, 400 PS (08/2000)
8:18 --- Chevrolet Corvette Z05 Commemorative Edition, 344 PS (09/2003)
8:18 --- Ferrari F355 (06/1997)
8:20 --- Audi RS6 (2002)
8:22 --- BMW E46 M3 (12/2000)
8:22 --- BMW M Coupe, 321 PS (10/1998)
8:22 --- Mercedes-Benz C55 (07/2004)
8:23 --- Aston Martin DB7 GT (2003)
8:23 --- Porsche 996 Carrera 4
8:24 --- Subaru Impreza WRX STi (2004)
8:25 --- Audi RS4 375 HP
8:25 --- Callaway C12
8:25 --- Mitsubishi Carisma GT Evo VI (11/1999)
8:25 --- Mitsubishi Carisma GT Evo VII (11/2002)
8:26 --- Mercedes Benz SLK 32 AMG (05/2001)
8:26 --- Nissan 350Z (2003)
8:28 --- BMW M5, 400 PS(also confirmed by Motor Commodore magazine, 2000)
8:28 --- Nissan Skyline GTR, 277 PS
8:28 --- Porsche 993 Carrera 2
8:29 --- Mercedes Benz CLK 55 AMG (05/2000)
8:29 --- Audi S4 4.2 Avant (11/2003)
8:30 --- Maserati Coupé Cambiocorsa (10/2002)
8:31 --- Ferrari F355 GTS, 380 PS
8:32 --- BMW M Roadster, 321 PS (09/1997)
8:32 --- BMW Z4 3.0 SMG (05/2003)
8:32 --- Porsche Boxster S
8:32 --- Volkswagen Golf R32
8:34 --- Acura NSX, 276 PS
8:34 --- BMW Z3 Coupé 3.0i, 231 PS (04/2001)
8:35 --- BMW M3 Coupe, 321 PS
8:35 --- Brabus-Mercedes Benz C V8 Sportcoupé (02/2002)
8:35 --- BMW 130i >>> Link
8:36 --- BMW E36 M3 EVO, 321 PS
8:36 --- Alpina-BMW B3 3.3 Coupé (07/1999)
8:37 --- Maserati 3200GT (2002)
8:37 --- Mercedes Benz C32 AMG (09/2001)
8:37 --- Nissan Skyline GTR V-Spec, 350 PS
8:37 --- Subaru Impreza GT Turbo
8:37 --- Honda NSX 3.0 (07/1991)
8:38 --- Honda NSX 3.2 (08/1997)
8:38 --- Mercedes Benz SL500 (12/2001)
8:38 --- Porsche 996 Carrera, 296 PS
8:38 --- Brabus-Mercedes Benz CLK 5.8 (12/1998)
8:39 --- Honda S2000 (01/2000)
8:39 --- Morgan Aero 8 (04/2003)
8:40 --- Holden GTS, on an in and out lap (2000)
8:40 --- Chevrolet Corvette C5 Targa Automatic (07/1997)
8:41 --- Aston Martin DB7 (1999)
8:41 --- Audi S3, 210 PS (06/1999)
8:42 --- Audi S4, 265 PS (08/1998)
8:42 --- Lotus Exige (11/2000)
8:43 --- Honda Integra Type R (12/2000)
8:44 --- Chevrolet Corvette C5
8:45 --- Chevrolet Corvette, 339 PS, automatic
8:46 --- Porsche 993 Carrera S, 285 PS
8:47 --- Honda Civic Type-R, 200 PS (11/2001)
8:49 --- Jaguar XKR Coupe (07/1998)
8:49 --- Renault Clio Sport V6
8:49 --- Audi TT 1.8T quattro Coupé, 225 PS (11/1998)
8:50* -- Mercedes Benz E55 AMG (2000)
8:51 --- Mercedes Benz C43 AMG (02/1998)
8:52 --- Mercedes Benz CLK 430
8:58 --- Lotus Esprit Turbo SE (07/1991)
9:09 --- Volkswagen Golf V6 4Motion


So you see demlot, I HAVE actual test times around the nordschleife, and you'll see the e36 me putting in 2 respectable times of 8:34 and 8:36, both higher than the E30 which was my point. I'm not here to try and bullshit my way through with false claims mate, you'll always get found out on a forum. However, an interesting point by 320touring there, well made made and very valid, especially about the chavtastic mods going around on a lot of them now - makes me a bit embarrassed to own an e36 - :cry: but i rember the same mods doing the rounds on this site a few years back by the misguided ones :D . Anyway, just to check i'm not bullshitting you about the times, you can check them out here.

http://forums.streetfire.net/showthread.php?t=1359.

Sure there are a couple of modded cars but not the ones we're interested in for this debate, and all are marked in red for that purpose on the site anyway.

4 pages and not a dummy thrown out of the pram in anger, well done lads, i'm made up i came back :D
Demlotcrew
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Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:20 am

:D

New record for the E30 M3

driver: Sascha Salzer (Alpenrod)
vehicle: BMW M3
laptime: 8.32 Min. (= 146,3 km/h) Full lap.
Date: 05.08.2006

This is not BTG (would be 8.22) and he was running a stock car with 7j*15 wheels! Stock brakes, stock suspension. A factory car.

And you made 8.36 in a Evo ??? I dont see two respectable times, only 8.36

Andrew
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orangecurry
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Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:44 am

Demlotcrew wrote:Well you see i dont agree, i really dont think that the E36 ultimately a better handling car than the E30. The only advantages it has is better mid corner balance, and i really dont think the E36 Evo would 'Cane' a E30 evo, have you ever seen the BTG times for both cars on the Ring? No i dont think any of you have.

Andrew
just my 10p - obviously we have to be careful not to lump in the E30 M3 with the E30 for general handling - it's a different car isn't it, as has been said here

as treble_c rightly said, normal E30 trailing arm rear suspension is old world, and not in the same league as the E36 - I don't like the E36 (at all), but I'm sure the rear suspension is much better, and therefore the E36 will handle better.

If anyone jumps in and says that their modified E30 handles better than an E36, I shall have to shoot them. :D
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treble_c
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Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:55 pm

Touche Andrew, although if you look at the times posted by myself through the website link, you'll see that the driver used is the same for virtually the whole of the list, and also as more important point of fact, he's not a race driver smashing the models previous lap record, but a journalist for a car mag. This was why it was posted, to try and make it look fair as in, the same driver used for virtually all lap times.I'm sure if salzer was given the chance in the e36, he'd beat the e30's time, but its all opinions until someone can gather some hard evidence is it not, so well done mate :)
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Sharabi
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Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:19 pm

e36 is a great car, i have owened one for almost 3 years. but it all depends on what you want.
I know co-own two e30's (stripped 316 & Modded 318is) and to be fair i much prefer my e36 most of the time. It is better build, more spacious, more comfortable, looks great when clean, and looks much better than some of the new cars out there.

For me the E30 is a completely different animal. Its not that nice looking as std unless it came with mtech Kit. I find the recaro interior uncomfortable, and the switches and such i find poor.

However driving them i love them, the e30 is not a fast car, but its a Fun car, hence why the two e30's are track cars.

i'm still very shocked as to how biased a lot of people on this forum are with regard to e36's. I'm a member of a very big e36 forum, and on there they appreciate the e30, esspecially ones that have been tastefully modded.

end of the day, were all BMW Drivers, we like what we like, who cares what model the cars are so long as the driver is happy.

anyway Back on topic, the 328i sport is a great car.
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treble_c
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Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:23 pm

http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewTh ... 3&bottom=0

I think you may see an 8:20 lap here by the e36 m3, test by auto car too so no fancy race drivers, quoted at the std spec of 320bhp, i don't think autocar do modded tests, tested in 1997, i make that 12 seconds quicker than the e30 m3 lap record with race pro driver. :wink:

All in good fun so lets not turn it nasty, i'm pointing out how fast something is here, NOT how good it is. Have a trawl through my previous replies before jumping down my throat, i've already put forwards the argument for the e30, christ, i've just bought another, so i'm not biased toward or against any model here
hammoj28
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Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:51 pm

Yeah, its all a bit of fun really. Basically in my eyes the perfect bmw is an e30 with an e36 engine.:D Bigpimpin's touring is the fastest car iv ever been in and i love it! It would probably beat an e36 m3 therefore has used the best of both worlds. Hope you agree.
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