E30 M3 Vs Mercedes 190 Cosworth

[Kos]

there is a guy dont the road from me who got a 190 cossie ( i think it could be an evo) and we always talk cars, might get him to come to ace on monday night !!

he's also got a 190 AMG with a 3.0 under the bonnet !!

[zakh]

have you got any interior pics of your car Cecotto?

here are some of that benz ive seen...

[e30bmlover]

they are very nice cars...all round self levelling...4 doors, comfort etc...i love the M3 but the rear seats are shocking IMO!

dont worry about the rear seats, you dont have to sit in em!

[zakh]

other people might have to! but i see what u mean! lol

[e30bmlover]

zakh........just one thing wrong with the pics you have there.........its an auto!!!

[zakh]

thats the whole point! read my previous posts! i test drove a manual and did not like it at all! to each their own!!!

[e30bmlover]

thats the whole point! read my previous posts! i test drove a manual and did not like it at all! to each their own!!!

alright! dont hit me mate!

[m3ben05]

i posted a pic earlier in the thread mate

[steerfromtherear]

If you buy an Auto Merc Cossie for that sort of money I refuse to talk to you anymore, 100% wrong

Each to their own and all that but wtf.

There was no point starting this thread comparing an e30 m3 against a merc cossie if an auto was even on the agenda. There was never going to be any contest was there?

[maxfield]

when hes driveing her about, does he get many people flash there lights?? out of respect for the car i mean.

No but alot of people look it's very loud and i mean loud

[zakh]

How can you just diss an auto like that???

[steerfromtherear]

I don't just diss an auto like that, I have owned several auto's (never sporting variants of cars mind you)and they are fine.

I personally don't consider an auto anything to be comparable to an e30 m3.
It classes it out in the comparative stakes as it then becomes a completely different car.

If you had said you were the sort of person who was interested in rear leg room and automatics in your initial post I could have said a merc was for you immediately.

An e30 m3 and a manual mercedes cosworth are 2 classic road/track cars which deserve a place in the halls of history. An auto version (imho) doesn't sorry.

[zakh]

have you even driven the auto version!!! bah humbug!!!
i have driven both...and the gearbox on the merc (manual) was not the best!!!

you cannot just diss a car because its an auto...so you may aswell diss the Mercedes Maclaren SLR then...oh yeah, it must be crap

[steerfromtherear]

I do, but to be fair I haven't driven the macmerc so that's just pub talk lol.

I have driven the auto merc cossie (a chap wanted to swap it for my merc w124 300ce auto) and imo it was a perfectly good car it just lost sooooo much of the reason I love the merc cossie.
I refused to swap as you can tell.
The manual is quicker fact, the gearbox is notchy true, but it's the dogleg manual that so many people crave.
Not to mention the exact box that is fitted to the e30m3 of which you fancied.

The admittedly notchy box will take so much abuse and becomes a joy to use after an hour or so of getting used to it. It really works well when used in anger.

[steerfromtherear]

I will give you that for day to day driving an mercedes automatic is a great car, just why buy the only proper track merc and then opt for the relaxed version?

[zakh]

so if i bought an auto (it has amazing spec) can i put a dogleg box in it?

[maxfield]

Yes.

[zakh]

well thing is the auto is the only one with cruise control...the manual does not have it...
i see what your saying...but kickdown on the auto is lovely...and im never going to take it on a track...and for london driving its better i think...

[steerfromtherear]

Mate don't change it because I said so.
If it's what you want then go for it.

I am very enthusiastic about these old cars and my opinion, as much as I have definately put it across here lol, isn't yours.

I see them, and e30 m3's, lancia integrale's, sierra cosworths, audi quattro's etc etc, as cars that were designed for a purpose. Even the best concourse condition model deserves to see the track from time to time to fulfill it's spiritual purpose.

An auto isn't a track car IMO.

If you like I can see if the one I know of is still for sale locally to me. It is 116,000miles but it has 2 owners. 1 being lotus and the other being a local gentleman who has done his upmost to keep it in fantastic condition.

The paperwork with it is interesting due to it's Lotus ties (2 were sold to Lotus one for a famous race driver, whose name I forget, and one for a company director, this is the directors) and the actual physical amount of it.
The condition is the best I have ever seen personally but I can't claim to seeing them all so...
It looks as good as the photo's you have posted and it's manual and £6,000

It is in the south west.

[zakh]

hey man whats the spec of it...thats all important, colour, year etc?

[steerfromtherear]

It's Blue Black as the one you are looking at. It has full black leather in mint condition and it is a 2.3 on a C. 1986.

It seemed to have everything on it including air con which mine didn't.

I can see if it is for sale still but I understand if you don't want a 2.3 some people don't.

[zakh]

thats a lot of money for a c reg...i wouldnt mind seeing some pics and a full list of options...

[maxfield]

http://www.bmwm3world.republika.pl/

Have a look here theres an article on M3 V Cossie V Merc

[steerfromtherear]

To be fair 10grand is steep for a G reg lol. It is all down to condition not number plates at this level really.
If I can find details I will pm it to you Zakh.

Maxfiel that is a great article but a little unfair as they used rhd converted m3.
Their main complaints were traits that would become apparent from this conversion.

They also used an auto merc against its manual counterparts which seems a bit pointless as they were reviwing them as performance cars.

[Rich_W]

Any one who considers a C43 clearly doesnt understand driver involvement.

So speaks another forum keyboard hero who has clearly never driven one!

They're a nice car in much the same way as an E36 M3 is. Talk all you like about 'driver involvement' bollocks but it's a nice quick car that drives very nicely. AMG don't turn out shite as a rule.

Hmmm, well I did work for Mercedes for a while.... And belive me Ive seen brand new 0 mile AMG engines and diffs fail so lets not get silly. Anyway, when I talk of driver involvement. I talk in terms of getting the gear change perfect, the throttle cracked open at just the right moment. Anything Auto is always going to fall down in terms of involvement to a manual. Its those split seconds whilst the TC thinks about things. Exactly how many race cars are autos? But I suppose its all bollocks to you. You just want to waft along in your car listening to the radio. Which I guess is the difference between me and you. (I can drive, (cant drift mind ) you simply sit in a car like people sit on a train)

The Sierra Cosworth is virtually unbreakable. That's why a standard engine will withstand 400 bhp albeit with proper head studs and other bits.

So by Standard you mean modified. "Other bits" presumably means 7:1 CR pistons yes?

270 bhp is nothing for one of these. This is a very, very strong engine. The gearbox, a Borg Warner T5 from the Mustang is also good for 500 bhp. You won't break the diff either.

Yup. But Stg1 is hardly worth bothering when Stg3 is pretty reliable at 330. Its when you go beyond that you need to start thinking about internals. Trany wise the 2wd stuffs pretty strong I grant you. Not so sure on the 4x4 though. Particulary the front diffs. Oh, and are you sure its from the Mustang?

Dodgy handling? I don't think so although you'be undoubthedly driven as many of those as you have C43 Mercs. The Sierra was a good handling car as a standard tin box 1.6L and as a Cosworth is very good indeed and demands something from the driver.

Well nearly every Cossie (Ford) owner Ive ever spoken to has never been overawed by a standard car. Once you start getting Konis or Billys on them you can make them reasonable. But we ARE talking about Standard cars remember.

you cannot just diss a car because its an auto...so you may aswell diss the Mercedes Maclaren SLR then...oh yeah, it must be crap

I can, it is (BTW McLaren ) In fairness the only reason its a Auto is because MB are paying for it. Im sure McLaren would of preferred a manual.


Anyway back to the topic of MB Cossie vs EM30. I don't know very much about the MB. And wouldnt knock anybody for owning a nice one instead of a BMW. Its the shitboxes that drag everything else down.

[78dude]

The guy who goes and buy hin self an MB 190 Evo2 is not the typpical 18 year old lad with a super styled Corsa with more neon light than a Star Wars Space Ship(Sponced by Tesco Finance). We are more talking about a man who is more in the end of 30s who had the Evo as his dream car when he was 20 year old. With his wife, two kids and a house I can make his dream come true and buy a Evo2 for cash from his savings account. That is why I like cars from the 80s!:-)

[Morat]

Well, all F1 cars are auto.... but I wouldn't want an auto myself. Personally, I like the E30 because its involving and fun to drive. They're not fast they ARE fun. A manual gearbox is part of that, for me at least. I can understand why you'd want an auto in London, but for my money ANY car is wasted in London.

I've always liked the shape of the 190s, but I'd still take an E30 touring unless anyone is offering an M3 for a free trial ;)

[Rich_W]

Well, all F1 cars are auto.... but

Not really, like the SMG systems they are manuals with hydraulic control/operation.

Like you I feel its the "lag" on regular Autos that kills the enjoyment/driver involvement "bollocks"

[delboy8000]

How can you just diss an auto like that???

piss off to a merc site you twat ,stop wasting our time,you've not got 10 grand, unlike me a a lot of zoners on here,bye,bye

[Jhonno]

Easy tiger, bit OTT really

[Jon_Bmw]

How can you just diss an auto like that???

piss off to a merc site you twat ,stop wasting our time,you've not got 10 grand, unlike me a a lot of zoners on here,bye,bye

calm it rich boy, unless you give me some of that wonga, then you can spout off all the shit you like and i'll be your best friend too!

[zakh]

Typical BMW drivers got their heads so far up their ass they dont know what day it is...

[zakh]

This is what i used to have before i sold it...Love the 5 series...but became very disillusioned at the snobbery of the dealership and shockingly bad service...I vowed never to buy a new (ish) car again from a $tealer...It was so bad that BMW Gb had to get involved...It was a nice car, but had no real grunt, and the power was lacking too...

The car had every option going...Full sat nav, traffic master, electric seats/steering column/electric glass sunroof, bluetooth phone preparation, tracker, DSP Hi Fi, MParallel's, Climate comfort screen etc...

[Wiggy]

Typical BMW drivers got their heads so far up their ass they dont know what day it is...

Oi, now that's bang out of order. Most people on this thread have been trying to be as helpful as possible and offer advice. You are the one who was showing interest in buying a BMW mate so cop on a bit....Friendly discussions are one thing but making comments like that on a site dedicated to BMW's is either plain stupidity or an attempt to annoy everyone. If someone's having a go, deal with them....but don't make inflammatory sweeping statements.

[zakh]

OK i apologise...but comments from that scottish bloke were well out of order!