E30 M3 Vs Mercedes 190 Cosworth

[zakh]

Hi guys,

My first post!!! been browsing for a while and love the enthusiasm on here!

Here is my question...whats the better car, the E30 M3 or the MB 190 Cosworth?

Would love to hear opinions, experiences etc!

Cheers

Zak

[iDreamBeemer]

M3 any day of the week... it was the superior car in its day and the same applies now.

[zakh]

Ive been doing research into this as im thinking of buying one or the other...

The 190 it seems beat the M3 in all the DTM touring championships...The M3 at the time was £30K, the 190 was £40k...

Im not a fan of the dog leg gearbox...Is it as bad as they say it is? Although ive been told that the manual gearbox on the MB is far worse...

[m3ben05]

The proper comparison would be to the 190 evo 2 and yes, they are better cars than the M3

The standard M3 is a way better car than the 190 cosworth, it was proved when they were both new and its still true today.

Why the interest, are you thinking of buying one?

On a side note, i talked to someone who owns an evo 2 dtm and he says the M3 dtm is a better car to drive but was not as fast in a streigth line.

[alan325i]

M3 all the way, looks nicer, faster and holds the road better.

[zakh]

Im thinking of buying one...
I have seen a 190E 2.5-16, on a G plate 1990...

With the following options:

Completely standard - NO MODS
1990
Blue/Black Metallic
Full Service History and ALL receipts from Day 1
Electric Seats
Heated Seats
Air Con (Blows Cold)
Cruise Control
SLS Self Levelling Suspension (Working)
Illuminated Sun Visors
Full Recaro Leather Interior Including two rear bucket seats
Rear Headrests


I have driven an E30 M3, and they are good...but i found dont have the same grunt...
Also im going to see another M3 this week...We'll see how that goes...!!!

[hubble]

I'd go for Mercedes. Don't get me wrong the M3 is a true classic, but I feel the Mercedes is just that little bit more. It will be a tough decision to make

[zakh]

Tell me about it! I just love the Interiors of the Mercs...so SOLID...and those seats are to die for!!!
DECISIONS DECISIONS!!!

[m3ben05]

What sort of price range are you looking at? The e190's are usually a lot cheaper to buy than the M3's so im guessing you are looking at quite a cheap M3?

If so you may have driven a dog that needs work - dont judge them all, some are way better than others. ou should definately drive another one.

[zakh]

The 190 that im looking is going for 10k...so its not exactly cheap!!!

[m3ben05]

My mistake

[zakh]

hehe...thats ok, you were not to know!
i wish i could buy both!!! lol

[AC_S]

thats huge money for a 190, (providing its not the big winged EvoII)
it must be bloody mint, also have a desire
to own a 190 but i feel the M3 is a more fun place to be
any pics or links to the 190 u had a look at

[zakh]

i can post some pics on here...its a private sale through the mercedes owners club...
yep its pretty much mint...

[AC_S]

nice one

[Project_E30]

RHD vs LHD

[m3ben05]

I would gladly trade my M3 for an evoII merc but i they are worth double the amount easily! Great cars tho

[zakh]

[/img]

[AC_S]

schwing
like the de badging, what a sleeper

[m3ben05]

Looks in great condition mate!

I just dont think they look as special as the M3's. Iv never driven the merc so i cant comment there but going by looks i know which i would rather own.

Its always been my understanding that they werent great on handling but had slightly more low down torque which made them feel quicker than the M3.

[zakh]

Apparently it was debadged from the factory...i did a VIN check and it turns out to be true...

Yep its not bad nick at all...Like any car you can get some real dogs...and this one is standard and everything works...even has the original brochure...

One thing that concerns me about the M3 is rust...How many BHP does an M3 have? How much CC?

[m3ben05]

early cars had 200bhp
late cars had 215bhp
Evo 1's had 215bhp
Evo 2's had 220bhp
Evo sports had 238bhp
cecotto's had 215bhp

All were 2.3 except the evo sport which was 2.5. There were also some other editions made by other companies (schnitzer, hartge, alpina)

Rust is not a major problem as long as the cars been looked after.

[zakh]

sounds good...the 190 has 210BHP...whats the build like on these cars, can it even compare to the over engineering of the Mercedes in this era?

[Herrity]

There's a MB 190 2.5 in our household which is for sale I haven't driven an M3 in anger so to speak but I have drove one and my opinion is the merc is a better more comfortable cruiser and every day user but the M3 is better around corners, as I said I wasn't allowed to drive the bmw hard but it did feel better through a few lanes around mine, my merc had £2,300 spent on it in mercedes Liverpool getting the complete rear hydraulic suspension system renewed and the M3 felt better in the corners how gutted was I !

[zakh]

Were you running with standard tyre size and rims?
What spec is the MB you have?

[steerfromtherear]

I have owned the MB 2.3 16v (Cossie) for 2 years and absolutely loved it. It was quick and responsive and imo handled expectionally well for an old car of it's size.
I would say it handled better than most if not all of the big cars I have owned. coming between the e36 m3 and the 325i sport in terms of how it felt to drive (closer to the e30 for power mind)

It is the one car that I would buy another one of and often find myself looking through the ads at them. There is a good merc190 forum if you search hard enough to ask questions about them and 190revolution as well iirc.

Bad points for me would be often rust under the kits rear arches etc,
expensive to mantain (probably no more so than an e30 m3 mind lol)
rattly engines as standard,
sls is gay imo especially if you want to uprate your suspension,
seats, as much as they last for ever, offer as much grip as a ptfe coated greased up slippy thing.

2.3's have 186/7 bhp and 2.5's have 195bhp. These figures may not be exactly to the number but the 2.5's certainly don't have 220bhp as standard.

I think evo 1's had 225 and evo 2's had 245.

I can't compare to the e30 m3 as I haven't had the pleasure but I would say it would be closer comparing the 325i sport.
It is around about as quick (the 2.3 at any rate) handles as well but in a more comfortable and refined manner.
It probably doesn't feel quite as in touch with the road as an e30 but the feel is just right to inspire confidence in what it can do and where it's limits are.

Just my 2 cents

[zakh]

just did a bit more reading...the 2.5-16 has 204bhp on tap...
I think Martin Brundell once commented that the 190 had the best handling chassis of its time...

Schumacher loves it too...I dont see many if any 2.5-16's on the road...but have seen a few E30 M3's...

just dont want to follow the crowd as it were! Its nice 2 b different!

[steerfromtherear]

Right the 2.3's are 187 the 2.5's were 196 until sept 1990 when they become 204. I knew I knew it just had to be reminded.

Still believe the 2.3 with only 187 bhp was a fast car. It would stomp a 4x4 saff coss (unmodded) and keep up with some fast motors.

[steerfromtherear]

http://www.mercedes190.co.uk/

Good site for 190's

[pentoman]

The 190E 2.3/2.5-16 came out before the M3 and is partly responsible for the E30 m3's existence... so you owe it to yourselves to read the interesting story about how it came into existence :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes_190
(scroll down that page)



The gearbox is the same getrag box in 190E and e30 m3, although the Mercedes could be had with an automatic which is not terribly popular but I don't imagine is all that bad for cruising.

I own the Mercedes 2.5-16, but before buying it had briefly driven a super condition 1990 e30 m3. I can't remember it so well now but they do feel very similar. The BMW has better feel and seems to wrap around you more, feeling more like the sports car that it is. I didn't take the BMW to its limits, but can tell you that the Mercedes is fantastic at its.

The engines/performance feel very similar - both unrefined 4-cylinders that don't sound great at low engine speeds!

Unsurprisingly the Mercedes is a better everyday car, more refined, much nicer inside, plus obviously it is a four-door saloon, whilst the BMW removes that and adds extra handling/feel/general sportiness. In spite of this though, the basic feel to the cars is very similar and fairly unique (you know what I'm talking about), and really it's a choice of whether you want to trade a little sportiness for practicality with the Mercedes, or want an uncompromised driving machine in the BMW.

Give us a wave if you see me out there E30ers!

[Frenchy]

Drove a 2.3 cosworth merc of a mates and not impressed at all though the larger engined one may be better i think the Merc looks better but is not an out and out performance car that the M3 is the Merc also needs some nice AMG alloys to make it a looker.
Personally would go for the M3.

[Simon]

I know which I think looks the best!!

[Rich_W]

Doesn't £10k also buy a C43 AMG? It definitely buys a very nice E36 M3 - both of which are faster than an old E30 M3 if that's what you want. The C43 is a quick car and the V8 does sound good.

£10'000 also buys a very, very nice 3 door Cosworth which is still a superb thing - a simple and safe upgrade to 270 bhp and it will eat an E30 M3 and shit it out again..........excellent handling, German build and mechanically very strong. Plus a black one looks every bit as butch as an M3.

i was with you right up to the "excellent handling" and "mechanically very strong"

I like 3drs. But their greatness is 95% down to the engine. Not the Ghia spec nasty interior (recaros aside) or their dodgy handling.

Any one who considers a C43 clearly doesnt understand driver involvement.

Anyway back OT. I think these photos are good

[zakh]

The BMW looks good, but come on the Merc is so classy...4 door auto bahn stormer...
They are both good...but like any old car condition is paramount...
and you pay for what you get...

id never buy a c43...total shite...