coil over conversion kits any good ?

[RichIS]

seen these and wonderd if any 1 has used them or had any thoughts ?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Coilover ... dZViewItem

[Kos]

they look reasonable, its simmilar price to a set of god lowering springs.

give it a go, you coould always sell it back off!!

[jaistanley]

They have the advantage of being able to choose different spring rates and lengths easily from one of the many companies selling springs of this size though (assuming they are standard sized springs that is)

I'm quite interested in these too.....

Jai

[RichIS]

just got this reply from seller:

Yes we can ship to UK no problem. S/H is CAD$109.95 by UPS AIR (company discount rate 40% off applied). We can declare the parts as business sample in low value hopefully can save you the import fees.

The coilover kit can fit with stock shocks and also after market shocks no problem. You will defintely love the coilover kit performance.

so shippings going too be about 52 quid

what are peoples opinions to these instead of say just normal uprated shocks and springs ?

[jaistanley]

I am right in thinking these are weld on threaded platforms right? To convert your strut to coilover a la rally design ones?

Being thick here..

Jai

[eidt]: Yup I was being thick.. These are designed to slide over your struts and it looks like they have grub screws to secure. I'll definately pass on these then. Check out the rally design coilover kits for capris etc.. They look a little more substantial.

[M5pilot]

You can get them and see what they are like.

Personally I think they are shit and wouldn't bother.

If they are rubbish don't complain about it. You have no idea about the spring rates, no idea how adjustable the platforms are or if they are at all upto the job.

If you want coilovers buy the real thing or buy a proper suspension kit.

Sal

[RichIS]

ok i get the idea lol can any one recomend a suspention kit for around 400 as i got a cheque today iv already got some acs anti rollbars to fit too if that changes anything

[TW166Y]

mate dont bother with anything where you have to "weld" on suspension... this could prove very dangerous indeed should something go wrong!

[Gunni]

Rich PM me,, I can´get you the same for ALOT cheaper,.
and I mean ALOT

And I have used EBAY coilovers before in a E30 and they work 100% great, later I upgraded to KW race springs,
I had no issues at all with them

[jaistanley]

I can't see a problem with the proper wled on threaded spring seat kits... After all that's all that companies like H&R will do to original strut bodies to make their coilover kits..They also fit wither adjustable or pre-valved dampers.

OK, I conceed you have to be a half competant welder and have a little common sense! For instance you'd want to strip the strut right down so the heat of the weld doesn't damage your shocks. Also, you'd need to be careful not to warp the strut housing or get weld splatter onto the threads.

If I were to do this I'd fit the spring seats etc from a reputable company such as RalDes which I suspect is what Gunni is talking about, possibly not. Those 'coilovers' shown should be treated with suspision, not neccesarily contempt. They may be very good and allow you to adjust the height and/or fit various other springs. I do have a feeling those rears would squeak and groan around the seat though.

Just my tuppence, sorry if it's gone off topic a little!

Jai

[TW166Y]

and if its not done right BANG!

Thats why you leave it to companies such as H&R etc...

[jaistanley]

I see what you're saying.. Personally I trust myself not to do a dangerous job! I'm not an expert but I am an engineer.

There's no harm in reccomending those without the skills to go to a competant welder.. And always wear safety gear kids

Jai

[w17led]

Gunni pm'd ya

[Gunni]

and if its not done right BANG!

Thats why you leave it to companies such as H&R etc...

what would go wrong or how could the system be installed wrongly?

I have done this about 5 times on E30´s now , and there has never been one issue EVER, 318i, 325i S50 , 325i touring and whatever no problems

you don´t need to cut anything neccassarily, you only need to trim the front perch if you want to lower the car to the max setting,

just because something doesn´t cost a fortune and isn´t made by a brand name doesn´t make it junk!

[w17led]

did you get my pm Gunni?

[TW166Y]

just because something doesn´t cost a fortune and isn´t made by a brand name doesn´t make it junk!

It usually does mate yeh.

why buy a beemer when you can buy a metro? Note, you wouldnt buy a metro because they are cheap and junk

if you think welding suspension up is safe then thats your 2p mate, i personally would never ever do it! But hey thats just me

[Gunni]

there is no welding needed on these conversions

and FYI, H&R, KW and all the other systems ARE welded,
they get a stock housing and cut it , then weld on a tube with threads in them ,
that is what they do,

so in your terms these conversions are better?

[gareth]

i've used the rally design ones before and had no problems. they take a 2.25" standard size motorsport spring which should allow pretty much any spring rate you want...

the rally design ones are a lot cheaper too. they do however not do one for the front.

[Gunni]

did you get my pm Gunni?

yea and replied

[Gunni]

i've used the rally design ones before and had no problems. they take a 2.25" standard size motorsport spring which should allow pretty much any spring rate you want...

the rally design ones are a lot cheaper too. they do however not do one for the front.

where would you get one of those?
I´m always on the hunt for something better or cheaper

[jaistanley]

Rally Design don't do fronts? I thought they didn't do one suitable for our platform-spring-platform rear springs. Then again I don't know, just speculatin atm.

What about using the kit designed for Capri struts. I don't know the diameter of the Capri strut but I have sneaky suspission they fit. Seem to remember someone saying they had used them but the upper (topmount) seat needed changing for another.

Jai

[ed325i]

Ireland engineering do them as well and they weld on.

[gareth]

when i said front, i meant rear!!!!!

the front ones will use a 51mm capri/escort kit. it's the rears that they don't do!

you may have to make up a sleeve to space out the strut if you have the 48(?)mm struts though. however, if you're going coil-over then it would be silly to do anything other than the larger struts.

[jaistanley]

Oooh, they fit.

Might be worth a purchase. I need to get new springs for my engine conversion. I'm fitting an S50B32 (heavy) and currently have H&R -35mm springs for a 318iS. I'm assuming they'll need upgrading? I'm happy with the rear height and rate.

What rate and length springs would be suitable? I want a bit of comfort and compliance, much like the H&R springs I'll be replacing.

So thats £100 I can justify not spending on springs and spending on coilover sollution for the front. Yey, more work. I'll have to get hold of my mates 200A mig too.

Jai

[TW166Y]

there is no welding needed on these conversions

and FYI, H&R, KW and all the other systems ARE welded,
they get a stock housing and cut it , then weld on a tube with threads in them ,
that is what they do,

so in your terms these conversions are better?

when its done professionally mate its a tiny bit different than giving a machanic £50 to weld them up for you yeh.. does that sound so fcukin silly?

major companies have their own reputations at risk, and they are machined, tested and all other kinds of stuff, so in theory its done right! I dont care what you do mate, buy the kit, weld it up... i couldnt care two fcuks, I just hope you trust it

[ed325i]

i've used the rally design ones before and had no problems. they take a 2.25" standard size motorsport spring which should allow pretty much any spring rate you want...

the rally design ones are a lot cheaper too. they do however not do one for the front.

What top mounts did you use?

[M5pilot]

So you guys are going to weld on these platforms, use unknown springs and some unmatched dampers.

I doubt very much you'll take corners as well as good suspension setup would have given you, you'll compromise ride quality aswell.

Even the H&R Coilovers are not that much better than a set of 35mm H&R springs matched with either cup kit shocks or Bilstein dampers.

Choose your route but don't complain afterwards that your car does not handle aswell as others who spent their money a little more wisely.

Not many people get to drive E30's other than their own and hence have no way of telling what suspension kit works best.

I've treid nearly every single type of setup out there now and for the money a H&R Cup kit is bloody hard to beat.

Sal

[TW166Y]

So you guys are going to weld on these platforms, use unknown springs and some unmatched dampers.

I doubt very much you'll take corners as well as good suspension setup would have given you, you'll compromise ride quality aswell.

Even the H&R Coilovers are not that much better than a set of 35mm H&R springs matched with either cup kit shocks or Bilstein dampers.

Choose your route but don't complain afterwards that your car does not handle aswell as others who spent their money a little more wisely.

Not many people get to drive E30's other than their own and hence have no way of telling what suspension kit works best.

I've treid nearly every single type of setup out there now and for the money a H&R Cup kit is bloody hard to beat.

Sal

COUGH COUGH

Couldnt have put it better myself sal well said... 1 thing you dont play around with on a car is suspension... full f*cking stop

[Gunni]

My setup as it was in my mtech II w/s50

Koni shock front
KW shock rear
Custom coilovers KW springs , 475lbs/512lbs front /rear
Treehouse racing E30 M3 spec caster control arm bushings
Rear subframe polyurethane bushings from Ireland Engineering

I have ridden in ALOT of E30´s since ´97 and I did have a Cup kit in that car before,

This is the best setup I have ever felt or tried in a E30,
my friend has a KW coilover system
Camber plates,
K-mac adjustables in the back

And mine was alot better

As with everything off the shelf ,
it´s always cut back a little to suit a bigger crowd.

[ed325i]

Gunni What top mounts did you use? Can you use the BMW ones?
How long where the springs you used?

[Gunni]

I used the stock mounts,

I first used "6 springs that came with the kit and then "5.5 thin wire race springs from KW,

[gareth]

i missed a few questions above.

i bought the kit from rally design www.rallydesign.co.uk

the top mounts i used were ford roller bearing mounts for group 4 bilstien shocks on a MK2 escort (old for rallye sport parts). i haven't tried this setup on a E30 but you'll probably need custom top spring caps turning up and re-use the existing E30 top mounts. the ideal would be to change for camber/castor adjustable ones at the same time though.

regarding getting a decent matched setup, there is no standard kit on the market for a E30 with a heavier lump. if anyones tried a 6 pot E30 with 4 pot springs, you'll see why i want a higher spring rate to go with the extra weight of the M30.

if anyone's woried about welding struts, prep them and take them to a local metal fabricator. they'll be as good at welding as anyone at H&R or similar. it'll cost very little for the peace of mind.

incideantally sal, i know H&R do higher rate springs for the tourer and cab, do you reckon they'll higher rate fronts too? there must be a few people like me who want some.

[jaistanley]

I'm liking this idea more and more.

Suspension companies don't rely on black magic. A suspension system is a simple spring mas damper system, attached to a simple lever arm. For those worried that I haven't asked the gods of motoring to answer my questions whilst sitting in a 5 sided pentogram drinking virgins blood, fear not.

Those who want to be really cute about spring and damper rates should first make sure they have std wheels (unsprung mass), standard tyres (slip angle) and standard KPI (all of the above plus std ride height). Suspension mods are about compromise. Without modelling the system in ADAMS I can't 100% predict the outcome of my mods, and even if I did a computer simulation I'd have wasted loads of time just getting a rough idea and a few graphs. Best thing is to go try it out. 2.25" springs are trés cheap. Driver feel will tell you loads more than equations.

That said:

Does anyone know the std open length and rate of the springs that come with the H&R coilovers?

Gareth: You make a good point about there not being a kit for E30's with heavy engines. Also comparing the rates of lowering springs compared to 2.25" springs is a little complicated too, coilover springs being on axis and std spring seats being off axis. This changes the rising rate of the system.

Do you think Escort topmounts could fit inside E30 turrets with new holes drilled? Would make camber and caster adjustment V Easy and mean you could probably use the Escort spring top-cup.. (bit harsh though). I spose an alternative is new turret tops but I dont think I could be arsed with all the welding or taking my shell too far from standard!

Jai

[gareth]

i reckon you could re-use the E30 top mounts unless you wnat adjustable camber/castor. if it was mine, i'd get steel spring top caps made as the aluminium ones that come with the rally design kits are thick (as they're ali) and reduce the thread engagement on the top of the shock.

one (small) problem will be the shock retainer collars. these won't fit up 2.25" springs so will need the OD turning down a bit.

i personally reckon to be happy i'll need harder front springs and this will eventually lead to a coilover kit on the front to achieve this.

i'll PM sal to see if the H&R stuff can be customised at the front too...

[Andy335Touring]

Just a thought but Alpina used M3 springs that were ment for air conditioned cars on their B6.

Air con weighs about the same as the extra weight of the M30 swap i guess ? M3 springs are going to be firmer and lower than non-M cars ?

The ETK has a recomended price of 140 for the pair inc VAT, not cheap but but not bad either for good quality springs.