set me brakes on fire last night! need bigger advice please!

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ed325i
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Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:19 pm

Once you get the 312mm set up you will not want any other set up.
ian332isport
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Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:56 pm

ed325i wrote:Once you get the 312mm set up you will not want any other set up.
Really :wink:
If it aint broke - Modify it...
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Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:21 pm

C33 wrote:If you're getting brake fade for whatever reason, whether it be a soft pedal (fluid boiling) or overheating pads, would it not be wise to address why the existing setup is failing in the first place. Spongy pedal replace the fluid with fresh, preferably Dot5.1, but remeber it will need replacing more often cos its more hydroscopic than Dot4; however that doesnt seem to be the score in the original post.

If the brakeing performance of the brakes is good normally then first off I'd suggest the cheapest route to go would be fresh discs, fresh fluid and some decent pads in whatever your preferred flavour is.

This may be the wrong thing to say to a bloke, but also look at your driving style, I do trackdays at Oulton in my BM, using standard pads (autofactors favourite brand) and discs, last time out I did a 40min session with no fade or overheating at all. The best advice I was ever told for braking was brake once as hard and for as little time as possible for a corner. This gives the brakes as much time as possible to cool for the next braking zone.

If you still find you're cooking the pads, see if you can duct more cool air into the back of the wheel.
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

As I said in my previous post - try better pads and fluid, probably cost you under £130 for decent pads and motul RBF

Then you can move to another setup at a later date if this isnt enough

And the advice about short hard braking is good too
Cheers,
Robin

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keri-WMS
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Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:53 am

hairypete wrote: i wish i had the reddies to just go for your conversion! at the moment i cant go for it, its just that little too much, but at some point soon i will be back in touch.
No Problem! If enough of you guys are running the Tino kit I could offer two reto-fit upgrades.....

1 - Alloy bells with rotors to swap for the TT discs and save some weight...

2 - The other way round: We have a monster 6-pot caliper on the way, I could supply this with the brackets to drop onto existing TT conversions.

We're trying to make everything in the WMS range share as many parts / fitments as possible, so people can mix and match their kits or upgrade in stages (re-using the calipers & bells) from 280mm, to 310mm, then on to 330mm etc as they find the funds available!
ed325i
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Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:29 am

Keri are you going to do any thing for the rear ? I know Ireland engineering do one and I know of one using BMW parts.
ed325i
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Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:43 am

Just been on the Ireland engineering web site and for the front they do 310mm for £606 and 330mm for £659. For the rear they do 310mm for £488.

The price is for discs/cailpers/pads/adapters/pipes the lot.

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keri-WMS
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Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:01 pm

ed325i wrote:Just been on the Ireland engineering web site and for the front they do 310mm for £606 and 330mm for £659. For the rear they do 310mm for £488.

The price is for discs/cailpers/pads/adapters/pipes the lot.
They're based of Ford-USA sliding calipers! He says he used them "because they require less room between the wheel spokes and the rotor so are not as likely the require spacers" - The smaller WMS caliper is low-profile and fits the wheels we've tried without moving the wheel outboard anyway!

If we're playing the price game don't forget to add 15-25kg of shipping from the USA plus 17.5% VAT on the item+shipping when it gets to UK customs. So if the £659 one costs £40 to ship to the UK (at a guess), the total inc VAT is £821.33 plus import duty, admin fees, handling fees etc, if you're slow paying you can even get storage fees and you're not even getting 4-pots! :roll:
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Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:06 pm

ed325i wrote:Keri are you going to do any thing for the rear ? I know Ireland engineering do one and I know of one using BMW parts.
Not yet, we'll be looking into that at some point but there are over 50 kits waiting to be prototyped at the moment so we're pretty busy right now.

I can say for sure though that the first rear one will be going on a certain White 3.5 M Touring!
ed325i
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Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:56 am

If we're playing the price game
Its not me coming on here trying to sell my brake kits and make money from the zone.
keri-WMS
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Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:18 am

ed325i wrote:
If we're playing the price game
Its not me coming on here trying to sell my brake kits and make money from the zone.
Er, first thing - the zone shop gets a percentage of any WMS kits sold here... :roll:

Second thing - we all need to make a living and I would have thought developing performance parts for E30 guys would be a GOOD thing for me to spend my time doing! If I wan't an enthusiast myself I could get rich selling insurance, but where's the fun in that?

In my view the E30 is not catered for as well as it should be (compared to the Cossie/Scooby/RS Turbo/Lancer/Skyline brigade) and that's part of the WMS philosophy - to produce SERIOUS kit for the more dedicated enthusiasts and their cars rather than the rich kids who've never turned a spanner to whatever they drive.
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hairypete
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Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:25 am

oh dear, handbags at dawn, well keri i am grateful for you popping up and showing me what you do, i do agree that there just isnt the market out there for performance bits for such a classic bmw. i mean series 1 and 2 escort turbo's have masses of tuners to go to, the same for a lot of the other old school brigade, but our bmw's do seem to be a little overlooked by tuners. i know there are a few, but no where near the ford pug and vauxhall boys.

so thankyou for taking the time to make us some extra goodies to buy and i will be after you in the near future for pretty much everything i can! just as soon as my wallett allows me to!

thanks again,
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i am soooo not a bloody noob!!!!
ed325i
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Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:13 am

Er, first thing - the zone shop gets a percentage of any WMS kits sold here...
Where are they in the shop ?

For me to spend that sort of money I would want prof that they are any good.

There are people making alot of so called performance parts for cars that look good but turn out to be crap. You would say they are good you are making money from them.

How many people are there running your set up on a e30 I would like to here what they say, it would be even better if they have been in a car with the Tino set up as well or other set ups.
keri-WMS
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Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:36 am

ed325i wrote:Where are they in the shop ?
See: http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... highlight=
M5pilot wrote:Keri @ WMS will be dealing direct with Zoners from now to keep things a little more simple.

Sal
There are several people here, gareth has them on his 335i Touring, C33 has them on his TVR racecar, Slarty_Bartfast has them on his track car (if he's fitted them yet) - and there might be people who've bought them on ebay (obviously I don't know their usernames if so).
hairypete wrote:so thankyou for taking the time to make us some extra goodies to buy and i will be after you in the near future for pretty much everything i can! just as soon as my wallett allows me to!
No problem mate, good luck with the rest of your project! :D
ed325i
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Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:19 pm

Here is another option use corrado discs with RX7 cailpers.

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Brenner5
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Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:22 pm

what is exactly involved in the rx7/corrado conversion?

any adapters?

whats that other bar that connects to the shocker?

how much better braking peformance?

is that 280 mm discs?
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ed325i
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Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:21 am

As far as I make out you just have to make some adapters up.
That bar is the anti roll drop link.
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Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:11 pm

anyone on the zone have this rx7/corrado setup ?

i can source the calipers easily so this may be a good setup for me but adapters will be a big issue..
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ed325i
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Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:32 pm

Check this link out for more info >> http://www.e30tech.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28334
Brenner5
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Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:55 pm

ed325i wrote:Check this link out for more info >> http://www.e30tech.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28334
ah nice one mate, alot of info there and quite a bit of work to get this setup running properly..
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Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:12 pm

i'm amazed that everyone is still squabbling about this!

what would happen if AP sold a 280mm 4 pot kit with EBC pads for £700? nobody would question it! less people would be able to afford it but the performance would be the same.

has anyne else on here (other than me and ian in his chim racer) tried them? if, as i've just read, someone has actually compared these to the Tino setup i'd be interested to hear about it and compare experiences.

something that should not be overlooked is that the substantially heavier 312mm setup WILL adversely affect handling in exactly the same way as heavy wheels/tyres will.

it's horses for courses again really, if handling is less of an issue than the quest for 'bigger' brakes will lead to the tino setup, though 15" BBS's are out of the question afaik. the WMS setup is 'smaller' but will have a more balance brake bias and fit inside 15" BBS's for the purists here.

i will be testing the next generation of WMS kit as soon as it's finished and will again report on the actual findings from a purely engineering/performance viewpoint. i am genuinely and personally interested in the comparison between setups and would like to hear from anyone who has 'actually' (rather than "heard from a mate of a mate") compared both, and also the others out ther like AP etc. my personal experience includes standard OE bmw kit, standard BMW calipers with mintex M1144's on ATE disks and the WMS kit with both EBC greens and reds. needless to say with 'my' driving style and heavy/fast 335i tourer, the WMS stuff is by far the best yet.
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ed325i
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Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:49 pm

what would happen if AP sold a 280mm 4 pot kit with EBC pads for £700? nobody would question it! less people would be able to afford it but the performance would be the same.
There are alot of people on here who havent got the money to spend on there car but want better brakes this is where the Tino kit comes in.

Yes it would be good to put diffrent brake kits to the test.

On e30tech.com they are not to keen on 4 pots because they can use a bigger pad with sliding calipers and they take up less room behind the wheel.
ed325i
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Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:51 pm

the WMS stuff is by far the best yet
What other kits have you tried ?
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Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:18 pm

it's all hidden within the paragraph you quoted! :D
gareth wrote:my personal experience includes standard OE bmw kit, standard BMW calipers with mintex M1144's on ATE disks and the WMS kit with both EBC greens and reds. needless to say with 'my' driving style and heavy/fast 335i tourer, the WMS stuff is by far the best yet.
regarding space, the 312mm kit might take up less space behind the wheel but the 280mm WMS kit still fits in both 15" BBS's and 16" alpinas (no others tried as yet). 4 pots do suffer from being larger than sliding calipers but as i'm purely interested in performance, i don't want sliders. they are the best example of 'value engineering' in caliper design but that is compromising performance for price. sliders are less efficient, cause uneven pad wear and allow less thermal energy to be transmitted away.

when comparing costs and value should we be comparing new bmw calipers to the WMS kit? used 15 year old wms calipers with new disks would be cheaper than an all-new bmw setup. why upgrade to parts that are nearing the end of their design life?


the smaller pad does have advantages too but this has been covered soooo many times before.
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