First M3...

[TheKaiser]

Ok, I need to have an M3 in my life but my funds are currently limited, in an Ideal world this would be an E30 but I can't seem to find any that cheaply (don't mind if I have to do a bit of work on it as I'm not too oposed to bodywork) Why are the later E36's so much cheaper and which is the better car?

[E30BeemerLad]

I've not had or driven either, but the sensible man in me says that a £4.5K E30 M3 will be a possible money pit unless you are very lucky. Bodywork is pretty much along the lines of the common E30 rust traps, i.e. arches- inner & outer, front scuttle, sunroof etc etc. I think with the E30 M3 the real liability is the engine, if it hasn't been looked after.

I would say the E36 is more of a "car" than the E30, which is a bit more raw and of course LHD only.

Depends what you want really. But the cheap E36 M3's will also be cheap for a reason

End of the day, neither are a cheap day out if the engine is in rude health. So do your homework and take somebody who knows M cars with you.

[Geeman]

End of the day, neither are a cheap day out if the engine is in rude health

You mean bad health. Get with the street talk dude... rude = good. When will you learn?

What's your budget? This will be an influencing factor in deciding which M3 to go for. £5.5 - 6k is probably the lowest you'll get a decent E30 for that won't need too much doing to it.

[TheKaiser]

It will probably be about that when I finally get the money raised I've just about finished building my last car (1970 type3 if any of you have heard of that!) but that went about £8k over budget!. What are the panels like for an M£ I'm guessing most of them area pain to find, not too bothered about fabbing new parts for it but it takes time and money! I take it mechanical spares aren't easy to come by either?

[m3ben05]

Well iv driven all 3 versions of the M3 and without a doubt the e30 is the best. Its not the quickest by any means but in terms of sheer enjoyment the e30 wins hands down.

If your budget can stretch to 6.5-7k you should get a tidy example.

It really does depend on what you want the car for, if its an every day driver your after the e36 will be a better car but if its a toy you want you cant go wrong with the e30.

As far as panels go, nothing is the same as the standard e30 so they can be expensive as can servicing and maintenance.

You get what you pay for, e30's are more expensive than e36's for a reason!

HTH

[MikeeMiracle]

Interesting responces, I was always told the E36 is a poor relation and the worst of the M3's. I was expecting similar responces to this thread.

[jpboost]

all the m3 panels are available new from bmw. and quite reasonable. e.g. front wings are about £150.
cheap m3's are normally cheap for a reason. more often than not it's bodywork.
You can get most of the mechanical parts cheap enough. even gearboxes and engines aren't all that expensive. (std s14 engines regularly change hands for around 1-1.5k)
If you're good at bodywork, there are cheap rusty ones about, but be prepared to really get stuck in.

but with either e30 or e36, you are buying a car that was motorsport derived, and top of the 3 series ladder. Just because they are cheap to buythey are not cheap to run. The servicing and runnign of an 10 (or 20) year old m3 is as high as it was when it was new. In fact is probably higher as everything is worn.

I do very little miles in my m3 (e30) but I do spend a lot of money on it. I wouldn't change it for the world though. so I suppose there is my answer to the e30/e36 question. Althogh my g/f wishes I had a more 'modern car'.

FWIW my e30 m3 was (very) cheap. But it cost me several grand to get it 'right' and back on the road. and that's with me doing all the labour, welding etc included.

[TheKaiser]

I've had a look on German Ebay as there seems to be more suff on there, I will have to pop up to a meet sometime to have a look at some of you guys E30s, I'm not oppose to LHD or impractical cars so that wouldn't be a problem even on a daily!

[m3ben05]

The e36 is a very under rated car as a daily driver IMO, iv driven an e36 M3 GT for several hours and its a perfect comprimise between performance and comfort.

Personally i wouldnt have one because the e30 M3 ticks all the boxes for me. Iv used mine almost as a daily driver for 2 years now, its not perfect due to the power band being above 4k but thats a small price to pay for the smile it puts on my face whenever i drive it

[H35-IAN]

yup id agree with ben there the e36 m3 is seriously underated ....

infact im going to buy one myself as a daily driver soon over the next 2 months.

[TheKaiser]

Cool, thanks for all your opinions guys, it's always good to talk to people that have had to live with the cars fo a while! Where do you have meets normally? Thought I saw something about the ace somewhere?

[maxfield]

Ace cafe theres sometimes one at lakeside shopping centre in thurrock

[m3ben05]

Check your PM

[TheKaiser]

Cheers M3 ben, I'm not a million miles away from Lakeside or the Ace, I've been down there for the Executioners (Hot rod) nights before. was that all you lot in performance bmw this month?

[c76jon]

my advice....................fwiw is buy the absolute best e30 m3 you can stretch to

they are money pits without doubt and in the long run you will look back and wish you had spent more on a better car

parts are expensive no matter what has been said

leads 150 quid
dizzy cap rotor arm over hundred quid
fan 150 quid ish etc etc

the parts that cost are often the ones not looked at upon initial inspection and purchase but soon add up once getting the car right begins

the bonnet is the same as a normal e30 if i remember correctly

biggest killer nowadays is rust without a doubt

cars can look fairly decent at first glance but pure horror stories do lurk under fuse boxes and kits

take your time and look at plenty

and i will add i dont agree with the statement about the s14

its bullet proof treated right.

john

[Gunni]

S14´s are great,
mine´s at 258k kmh´s
with only a bottom end refresh

[Frenchy]

Had an E36 M3 ...........OK........ but not bowled over with it and found parts to be stupid ran a 944 TurboS and bits were much cheaper and a much better car to boot.

[m3ben05]

The S14 is a bulletproof engine as long as its been looked after. There are plenty around with 200k miles on that are still going strong.

[Geeman]

I agree with Jon. Parts for the S14 will catch you by suprise. They are at least double the price of parts for the M20 for example. I managed to get a set of custom leads made for mine for £60, and a Volvo 740 Turbo distributor cap is exactly the same as the S14 item, only half the price!

[Geeman]

bloody double post!

[TheKaiser]

Blimey, never realised the parts were so dear! you get what you pay for though I suppose...

[m3ben05]

To give you an idea, the rebuild on my s14 engine will cost £1900 in parts alone. If you had to pay for labour you would be looking at a 3k bill.

[Demlotcrew]

Gee, the Volvo cap works but its not the same, it has vent holes at the sides which let condensation into the cap where as the S14 cap is solid.

Andrew

[Geeman]

Andrew... never noticed any difference on my 320iS. Maybe the previous owner had also used a Volvo item!

Can you not cover the vent holes to prevent this from happening...?

[Demlotcrew]

You can but BMW made an improvement to the later style caps for better ignition so i would rather go for the Gen BMW units or you can get them a little less at a Bosch centre. (but they never have it in stock)

Andrew

[AC_S]

looks like a RUDE example for good value.
no associaition with seller, click the link 13th car down:

http://www.norfolkperformance.co.uk/search.cfm

[Geeman]

Looks like a tidy example. Liking the 7 series rims...

[jpboost]

got a set of those 7 series rims on mine. I prefer them without the centrecaps though.,

[Falkster]

Does have a strange back seat though!!!

[tannerman8807]

Yeh I had a set of these on a E28 535 looked the dogs though I was running mitchelin at £220 each ouch!

[Rich_W]

Looks a bit monkey that one. Dodgy wheels, dodgy seats and a dodgy rear badge position. No hostory either? handbrake looks buggered too.

Not for that money.

Anyhow, back to the subject of E36 vs E30.

Best way I can think of is to ask yourself. What do you plan to do with the car? If its use as a road car and use it to commute or go shopping but then drive it fast. Then the the 36 is the better car for that. The power is more easy going, its a modern looking shape so still looks good despite its near 20 year old design! Im a big fan if the early cars 3.0 and theres a bundle of tuning options that wont get you spat on if you choose to fit a Turbo or Super Charger. Whereas heavy modifying (turbo etc) of a EM30 is a) still considered a bit of sacriledge and b) harder to do as there's less people doing conversions.

However, if you prefer to go round corners fast and dont really plan on using it every day. (I did plan on that but Im still using it as a daily driver ) But more for a weekend blat/trackdays on some B roads then definetly consider the E30. But be aware that run back to back with a 36 it will feel slow. I suppose its probably a more involving drive, in the sense that when you get to know it it can flatter you. Kind of a case of if you make the effort it makes you feel like you've achieved something. And thats something I really love about it.

But try not to fall into the trap of a "Cheap M3" as theres no such thing. Any decent M3 will:

i) cost a fair bit to buy.
ii) Will not be cheap to buy parts for (generally though some things surprise me with their cheapness) There seems to be a M3 Tax on lots of stuff that really is no different to bits on lower spec cars.
iii) And will drink lots of fuel and be expensive to insure (for some reason lots of companies dont touch M3s at all)

I would suggest if you cant buy a good example of either, and keep on top of the running costs that you dont buy one at all. As they tend to be money pits.

[Demlotcrew]

I get 34.7mpg out of mines. I daily drive it and never get tired or think that the E36 ///M is better looking, in fact i bet more people will notice a nice E30 M3 than a E36 M3!!! FACT

Andrew

[m3ben05]

Definately, even the best e36 m3's just blend in with the traffic. The amount of attention the e30 M3 gets is amazing for such a car. I could understand if it was a 30k supercar but for a relatively cheap old german car its amazing!

[TheKaiser]

I saw one last night on the A130, was gorgeous, tried top keep up with it to look but Polo power wasn't enough ! Seemed to be fast car night last night, 2 Skylines, Sierra Cossie and the M3 in space of five minutes! Plus a mint series 1 RS turbo and a new Focus ST