So i have my new....

[JAMZ]

Rims
Turbo fitted properly
Leaks sorted
Engine mounts replaced
Oil breather pipe o-rings sorted
Valance cut and meshed for my IC...

Now lets talk Internals...

BLUE SMOKE and lots of it when Cold

Drive it for couple miles and it goes away even under Boost

No unwark sounds from Turbo,no massive amounts of smoke under boost when cold..Oil is clean water is clean... headgasket ok

Checked 1&2 cyliner spark plugs? (nearest bulkhead) and they are light grey on electrodes and black surrounding..not lots of either but its there and 1 has got traces of being wet so very very small..thing is these plugs have done 40-50 miles since we fitted em..

Any ideas?

im really having a bad time with my E30 lately... ups and downs everyday ATM

[fuzzy]

blue smokes either turbo seals,piston rings or valve stem oil seals...neither is good and for it to be happening when cold and off boost it suggests engine internals.the extra pressures involved in turbo set ups put much more stresses on other parts.get a compression test done to check the rings as i think that would be the most expensive.

[JAMZ]

Nope,dont i know it!

going away when warm/hot make any difference to that equation?

[fuzzy]

i just went through it with mine ,thought it was the piston rings got the compression checked and they were all 140 which is seemingly what a low comp engine should be,turned out to be the turbo seals again ,only 3 months after getting them done.my symptoms were blue smoke on overrun and lots when it sat idling for a while,at lights etc and lots on boost.i was told if it smokes constantly its likely to be rings,if its intermitant then its more likely to be valve stem oil seals

[JAMZ]

Hmm...well as soon as its warm it goes wether im driving or sat still on idle...

looks like its going in then to first have a test then to strip it... any ideas on prices involed in any of the above cases?

Either way im missing Gaydon and prolly this yrs Summer...nice

[fuzzy]

sorry mate i have no idea on prices on a bmw engine,i only know that similar problems on a cossie result in BIG bills

[JAMZ]

Is it even worth getting the work done if its rings etc..but then i take the chance on another lump doing the same in 100 miles Etc..

This is where i fall flat on my ass... so lets say some or all the above need sorting,should i take some sort of advantage to all this and get better/bigger bits,2.7 etc..excuse the N00bish pun,my mech knowledge is minimal

[blingsta]

Jamz, seriuosly mate, i hope i dont go thru all this headach when i go turbo soon..

[JAMZ]

TBH m8.. Id get yer engine checked first as much as poss before you go Turbo as the FI setup will amplify any problems you have... ive always had black oily deposits on 3 plugs since i had it... it has done 130k. so i knew i might have these problems but not so fekin soon..not even clocked up 50 miles with this setup..everything is going wrong at once and now im in a dilema... this could cost me £1500 to put right then i still got to get MS or il fek the new bits up too so were talking 2-2.5k to be spent on a car that already owes me 7k and its not a daily drive..

Do i just get another lump? might happen again after 10 miles or 1000 miles...who knows

Do i take advantage and spend a bit more to get more power/reliability?

I know one thing..i aint a happy bunny atm though this was gunna happen even if i didnt go FI..only a matter of time

[fuzzy]

like you say you could get another lump but the same could happen again.if your keeping the car as an ongoing project,and i guess you are then as much as it might hurt the best way is to get what youve got rebuilt in tip top condition to save further problems.ive always been wary about F/I on an engine not designed for it thats one reason i did what i did,even though i still ended up with a few expensive problems.when you do finally sort it all out the satifaction gained out weights the cost

[JAMZ]

Problem is too that i need a conpression test done to help identify the fault... you cant get to my plugs without taking the Turbo off...what a PITA this all is

So just for the test alone i got to get them to work for an hour or 2 to get that off..not even sure that it would have to be on for the test to work and that is going to cause major issues...fu*kin typical!

And that means chaging everything back to stock..

[blingsta]

its costing me £1000 to get a 2.7 built with new shells and bearings etc... then the price of all turboing equipment.. so its costing me in total £2.5-£3k... and for that kinda dosh, im hopeing for both reliability and performance minus headaches!!!!!! fingers crossed..

[JAMZ]

UPDATE:

had the first 2 cyl's compression checked..tis the only 2 i can get to with the manifold on..the first 2 maybe 3 have allways being a bit sooty so thought these would be the best to check anyway and that all checked ok..Didnt have the exact digits on the meter but had the coloured face and numbers etc and both were centre of green stage so they seem ok...

Thing i spotted today was oil dripping from the bottom of the turbo in the centre section...straight away im thinking seals which in turn will cause all this smoke..took the charge pipe off and its was caked in Oil..think ive found the problem...hopefully

Jon..any warranty with this turbo m8 as its only done 20-30 miles tops? ... and why didnt you change the seals when you had the turbo clocked ... any ideas where i can get these?

On a serious note though im a bit more happier than i was yesterday.. though i cant be 100% the rest of the cylinders are ok, 85% sure will do for now... if the turbo is coming off then il be abel to get in there to check em all

[jamesc]

If its not the turbo, it could well be the valve stems, my car used to smoke like a bitch on startup, then it would go away when hot. Over christmas I had the head off and had it skimmed, valve seats re-cut and the stems redone (cost £100), and I fitted new oil seals on the stems. Its now fine and doesn't smoke at all.....

Cheers, James

[JAMZ]

Oils leaking from the turbo m8..seals have had it and its chucking huge amounts of oil down the charge pipes through the IC and into the TB

[Jon_Bmw]

But what you are presuming is that there is not excess oil being pushed through from the stem seals and then residing in the turbo which will then obviously get blown past the seals as there is too much, or just drip out. I think presuming it is the turbo is the easy option, it still could be, but definatly not garenteed. Its just that when it does it when its cold and no extra ploom when you are on boost suggest to me that the seals on the turbo are ok.

I'll answer your PM when i have 5 mins

[Andy335Touring]

What about if the oil return pipe is for some reason not draining the oil away quick enough ? This might force oil past the seals i guess ?

[JAMZ]

But what you are presuming is that there is not excess oil being pushed through from the stem seals and then residing in the turbo which will then obviously get blown past the seals as there is too much, or just drip out. I think presuming it is the turbo is the easy option, it still could be, but definatly not garenteed. Its just that when it does it when its cold and no extra ploom when you are on boost suggest to me that the seals on the turbo are ok.

I'll answer your PM when i have 5 mins

Not sure were get plooms of smoke under such low boost conditions..its all ifs and maybes, most have said valve stem are unlikely here and i really hope there right..John spoke to a few people and there saying any sort of flow even be it small is too much for a turbo and especialy on Idle which it is..wondering if thats the case here,dont forget weve come from an Auto to a Manual here and what was good for you might not be for me...been told on Idle you should see Drip,Drip,Drip and spurts when reving which is enough to coat the Turbine..when i take this drain pipe off i have a flow of oil and not just drips on Idle enough to maybe fill a mug in 30 seconds maybe..Imagine how much id flowing out under boost/pressure

im hoping that this is the cause here..we can only hope, i need you here m8 as soon as you can either way as il need 2 pairs of hands to keep this turbine from spinning when i test the oil feed on idle,that way we can see and at the same time your be able to see all the issues weve talked about...maybe just maybe turning the feed down to a drip might make a difference if no Dmg has been done yet to the seal if indeed this is Turbo related. Another thing i need you for mainly is to tell me that that sound im hearing isnt Det... cuz im running no Boost ATM and ive still got it

Failing that,the turbo will come off so we can check it propelry and at the same time il test the outher cylinders for conpression and if the seals are porked then a repair kit needs to be sorted..if Turbo is Good then i know where else to start looking,either way i need 'aftersales surport' lol

rgds

[JAMZ]

What about if the oil return pipe is for some reason not draining the oil away quick enough ? This might force oil past the seals i guess ?

Its at the bottom where it should be with no restrictions,that ive checked already. Gravity does its job there so dont think that would be an issue

[fuzzy]

i had exactly the same problem with mine.i thought it was the piston rings as id had the turbo seals done 3 months previously.found out purely by chance when the turbo to i/c pipe came loose and popped of and there was oil spraying through it.put on a brand new turbo and everything was cured,absolutely no smoke at all.turns out the old turbos casing was worn causing the seals to fail.the down side was a new turbo cost me £1000 but was offset by finding out my piston rings were fine.i was also told that its a very small amount of oil thats flowing through the return pipe and it would need to be completely blocked to stop the flow.different engine i know but the principles would be similar

[JAMZ]

Yep..its the 'Small amount of oil that flows through the return pipe' im worried about.. mine might a bit too much....

Thing is i aint pointing any fingers here and this setup worked for Jon..whats happened has happened but i think the setup might of just be ok with Jon's auto setup but with my extra RPM's of which are more sustained could of just pushed it that much too far and blown the seal...really am hoping here though

[fuzzy]

i wouldnt think that would cause much of a problem but unfortunately a turbo can go at any time so i probably wouldnt accuse anyone of anything untoward.did you try wiggling the shaft in the centre of the turbo from the air filter end to see if theres any play? there shouldnt be any so that could indicate if the seals are gone if there is. what turbo are you using?

[JAMZ]

Mitsubishi TD04, think its the 13g though not 100%

Havent checked the shaft since ive had major isseus these last 2 days...will do tommorow eve though on my list of 'things to do'

This isnt on bearings like i think yours is so there should be a bit of play as its turning inside a sleeve which in turn is turning to reduse friction as far as im aware but minimal play is expected on this model

As for the seals im not sure on how its setup inside there and where the seals are..would that be an indication then..im not so sure

[fuzzy]

the seals in my garret t34 were basically 2 metal washer type things fitted in a groove on the main shaft.dont know how it will work with yours though

[greg320i]

as its already been stated so dont wish to go over old ground but general cencus is smoke on start up from cold normally points to valve stems,then once engine is warm they seat alot better and seal properly,check the tubbie though,if your using an old turbo perhaps with a decat setup it could be lack of back pressure,causing oil to seap past seals.

[JAMZ]

Lets hope so...and yea symtpons do suggest that...In which case im the unluckiest git in the world..do maybe 50 miles a week if im lucky and its sunny in this car..doens t warrant half the crap im putting up with...Il fix the turbo,refit and go from there...If indeed its not the turbo then the whole setup will be up for sale..il fix whatever the problem is and sell the car too while we still got good weather... or hold and do the same next summer

thks