getting bass from the boot into the car?

[ackerley]

Hi all, Im trying to get the most from my subs and on looking at the ice section in the how to guides and read this:

The rear deck of an e30 saloon can be cut away virtually to your heart's content. Don't cut away the rear seat back though - it's structural.

Does anyone know how much I can cut out and from where (Im assuming the rear deck is the parcell shelf)

or any other ideas would be great.

cheers

[ed325i]

you can port the subs thru the arm rest.

ED

[Patm3]

I know this is going to sound crazy, but to solve my problem i bought two Kicker L5 square subs and put them in a box i call a coffin and placed them in my boot, using a directed 1100d amp to power them is more than enough bass, and power, and the bass notes are deep enough and flow through the car nicely,without have to cut anything and there is no rattle, when i had my two pioneer 12" 1000 watt subs the rattle was unbelievable, and caused by the higher frequency of bass note.

[kingcruizer]

hello mate, sound trouble eh! you can knock out the pannel behind the arm rest but thats your lot, wouldnt recomend cutting any of the shelf away as it is structual

[ackerley]

Ive already took out the ski hatch panel ,that did make a bit of difference.

Im a bit confused about what I read in the how 2 ice guide, that said you could cut out the rear deck. Is this not the parcel shelf?

[placey]

the rear deck is indeed the parcel shelf. if you examine it it has (at least on the later face lift saloons) two thick strengthening bars that run back to front across its top face. these then travel down the rear seat back (in an 'x' shape if memory serves.) it is these bars that provide the main strength for that area of the car. the rest of those panels is simple 1.6mm sheet steel and this can be cut away virtually to your heart's content without losing a great deal of strength.

the reality about this is threefold:

- you'll never remove metal without losing some strength. basic physics. take a look at what's there and consider what you'll rely on if ever you're shunted in the rear quater panel area or involved in a roll over incident and the rest can be removed.

- there's a lot of horror stories and scare mongering about cutting away this area of saloon cars e.g. i cut some speaker holes and my car was written off because of it etc etc. mostly they are urban myth but there are probably some fools out there that have cut away vitals and come a cropper because of it. if you're in doubt take advise from a structurally clued up person that you trust.

- it can all be cut away if you want - just be sure to give some strength back. i cut away my strengthening support bars across my rear deck but only after i'd welded in strengthening steel around that area but not where i wanted my subs and mids to be. if i'm involved in an incident that puts strain on that area of my vehicle i'm confident it has at least as much strength as when it came from the factory. take into account the metal sub frames and enclosure it now has fitted and it has a great deal more strength for sure.

that area of the car is not examined for normal mot purposes.

paul

[ackerley]

thanks very much for the info

[cliffybabe]

more subs more bass, maybe a 15inch the boot

[dark_sounds]

more subs more bass, maybe a 15inch the boot

pain in the arse to getg a 15 in there.. because :
a) size of box required, especially ported. loosing at around 4.1cuft internal exc port and sub displacement, up to 4.7 cuft thugh oinly wityh 12"

b) a 15" wont sit upright, has to be put on a slant.

stick to 12s

or have a port coming through the top speaker holes, get some air into the cabin. or through the ski hatch, though have sub facing into ski hatch and portsd through the spekaer holes, thats what i intend on doing

[cliffybabe]

more subs more bass, maybe a 15inch the boot

pain in the arse to getg a 15 in there.. because :
a) size of box required, especially ported. loosing at around 4.1cuft internal exc port and sub displacement, up to 4.7 cuft thugh oinly wityh 12"

b) a 15" wont sit upright, has to be put on a slant.

stick to 12s

or have a port coming through the top speaker holes, get some air into the cabin. or through the ski hatch, though have sub facing into ski hatch and portsd through the spekaer holes, thats what i intend on doing

or if ur going 2x12's dual voice like i got in the boot of the merc, what ya recon ali

[SHAZ325iSPORT]

dark_sounds Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:20 pm Post subject:

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cliffybabe wrote:
more subs more bass, maybe a 15inch the boot

pain in the arse to getg a 15 in there.. because :
a) size of box required, especially ported. loosing at around 4.1cuft internal exc port and sub displacement, up to 4.7 cuft thugh oinly wityh 12"

b) a 15" wont sit upright, has to be put on a slant.

stick to 12s

or have a port coming through the top speaker holes, get some air into the cabin. or through the ski hatch, though have sub facing into ski hatch and portsd through the spekaer holes, thats what i intend on doing



dark sounds who said you cant put a 15" in a e30,i have 2 15" kicker L7's,still got some room left

[domross]

Slightly off topic ,but i've got a similar set-up to bajandaan,put in by the previous owner....it works great but the 'coffin' is made from MDF which weighs an absolute ton...anyone any ideas of an alternative to the MDF???...I would think it needs to be strong but not flex particularly much or its going to rattle like a b/stard every time the base kicks in....

[mark320i]

my mates brothers 2.5 had a custom box fitting three 12" subs facing into the car, they were rockfords and holy fuck! kicking out 144db i actually wanted to get out after a couple of minutes. lol, but i love the sound ofn 15's.

[ad318i]

get a touring!!

[cliffybabe]

get a touring!!

[dark_sounds]

dark_sounds Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:20 pm Post subject:

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cliffybabe wrote:
more subs more bass, maybe a 15inch the boot

pain in the arse to getg a 15 in there.. because :
a) size of box required, especially ported. loosing at around 4.1cuft internal exc port and sub displacement, up to 4.7 cuft thugh oinly wityh 12"

b) a 15" wont sit upright, has to be put on a slant.

stick to 12s

or have a port coming through the top speaker holes, get some air into the cabin. or through the ski hatch, though have sub facing into ski hatch and portsd through the spekaer holes, thats what i intend on doing



dark sounds who said you cant put a 15" in a e30,i have 2 15" kicker L7's,still got some room left

they on a slanted box and sealed correct?

using the standard off the shelf boxes?

thats all very well but id bet my life you could get more bass from just the one in a proper enclosure

when building your own enclosure, slants are very annoying. hence much easier to stick to 12s.

also if building a proper ported box,,, a 15 will require more internal volume, and hence not enough room, unless your clever with how u make it.

dont get me wrong, it can be done,,, but i did mention vertical designs and not slanted.

[MikeeMiracle]

In my E21 I noticed that if the sub was in contact with the metal plate behind the rear seats that people are asking you to cut away, you get a lot more bass in the cabin.

I ended up using the car jack to push the bassbox into that plate......until I pranged the car at the back and the jack went through the bassbox.

I was only 19 at the time, that's my excuse anyway and im sticking to it

[kingcruizer]

why not have a total sealed box (no port) i had two 12's in my last sport with just the ski hatch taken out. at the last sound off it hit 147.3db
or you could always build a custom install like me.

please note i havent finished it yet but its gonna thump when it is.

[dark_sounds]

i bet that was using a audiocontrol mic and not a termlab ;)

[placey]

mikeemiracle - nobody is asking anyone to cut away any of their car.

it's worth noting that the pre-facelieft e30 saloon shell does not necessarily have a ski-hatch panel to remove. if you're a sound quality obsessive and require drivers firing into the cabin rather than through metal and trim this leaves the age old problem of what metal to remove.

the cab shell is even more difficult as there are no factory cab rear seats with an arm rest and the roof storage panel takes up boot height at the front end of the boot.

really the 'get a touring' comment has more truth in it than we'd perhaps care to admit to publically. they're a great bass solution.

porting of air into the cabin via a tuned port is quite difficult to achieve. it's all too easy to shift a whole lot of air and have very little music. if this solution is required then be prepared to pay someone who really knows what they are doing or spend quite some time experimenting to get things right. a large slice of luck never goes amiss...

personally i've never heard a saloon with bass in the boot that's not ported or cut into the cabin that i liked the sound of. i'm not saying it can't be done it's just not to my taste. most people going down this route tend to concentrate on installing subs and huge power to them and end up shaking various areas of the car in sympathy and it sounds a mess. a large part of deep and clear bass is sound deadening and rattle curing - this usually involves hours diagnosing rattles, stripping down various interior areas and re-assembling with 'damping' mods. time consuming but worth it. this is usually best achieved by the car owner/user as they're the ones listening to things for the longest amounts of time and therefore able to pinpoint exactly what rattles and when. pro installers rarely have the time or customer funding to do this (except in their own cars.)

paul

[Cotty]

really the 'get a touring' comment has more truth in it than we'd perhaps care to admit to publically. they're a great bass solution.

The only problem is the kit is visable unless you use the load cover all the time. And if you do need to carry big things you need to disconnnect and stor the box.

I always wanted a couple of 10" in an isobaric chamber wired out of faze.

I had a 12" in my 316 saloon with the ski hatch punched out, heard the base fine, or was that felt it

[placey]

cotty - have to disagree with you a little there - there's no need for any kit to be visible in this day and age. there's an acoustically transparent material to match many trim types so all kit can be made to look like it's a natural part of the car with some careful installation.

my favourite trick when doing an install for someone else it to find from a scrappy some really rubbish speakers - triangular plastic boxes with '1000 watts' or 'saisho' written across them in gold (ideally cracked and heat faded too), screw these to an unfinished roughly cut piece of ply and have some wires trailing from them to somewhere else and then place this over and above all my careful install work. when mate comes to see it all done they're horrified - 'what you mean i've given you my car for days and you've given me that????' 'ahhh but have a listen' say i and then turn it all on....

thing is anyone walking by doesn't give a second glance to see if there's any decent kit in there... trouble is it's getting harder to come across such crappy speakers these days.

paul

[Dan318-is]

Out of interest paul what would you charge to fit me an install? i only want a tiny sub that doesnt move about and an amp to run my 6x9 but im not skilled enough with that sort of stuff nor elecrtonically minded to be honest

[Cotty]

cotty - have to disagree with you a little there - there's no need for any kit to be visible in this day and age. there's an acoustically transparent material to match many trim types so all kit can be made to look like it's a natural part of the car with some careful installation.

Throuble is its tricky to do it without loosing usable space

[placey]

318is - not much. especially if you can get down to me before the 27th. after that i'll have to charge my day rate as missus is back and she won't let me get away with playing with cars for free.... but she will let me work on her house or car for free however - how does that work?

it's very simple to install kit in e30s for me now as i know where eveything is and how it comes apart. it's the new (to me) motors that take me time to figure out...

cotty - yep you're right there - kit does take up space.

paul

[Dan318-is]

il keepu informed if i get the dollar!

[mrLEE30]

thing is anyone walking by doesn't give a second glance to see if there's any decent kit in there... trouble is it's getting harder to come across such crappy speakers these days.

you will probably find people will start breaking in to get the cheapo speakers to do the same as you, they wont touch your install

[DJ_B4L]

hi mate i got two kicker 15" subs in my e30 and they sit stright with out any problems the box is big enough and slides right to the back of the book and gives you loads of space to put you shopping or any other things in the boot if you want the measurements let me know

[Jos]

You put the shopping in with 2x15" kickers? Is it still edible when it comes out of the boot again?

I have 2x12" in a sealed enclosure and yes if u have to carry anything its a pain in the arse.. and I'll not mention the words/language used when you have to get the spare tyre out...

[DJ_B4L]

lol yeh i know what you mean if you have to change the tyre it can come out but will take time but there plenty of space in front of it to put stuff the box goes right back to the end of the boot and stops at the tip of the boot which is at the end of the boot lid