diesel power!!!!!!!

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gareth
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:10 am

at present i'm running my cheapskate daily drive (£600 1998 pug 406 diesel turbo!!!) on vegetable oil to save money.

£5 gets me 100 miles at 54 p/litre on the 406 (tescos!!!!)
£5 gets me 20 miles in the 335i!!!!

soon this (406) will be nearly free once i'm fully operational on recycled veg oil! (obviously paying fuel duty on it all....... winkeye )



this has got me thinking... what is the largest turbo diesel bmw lump? i'm tepmted to do a swedish-style mega turbo diesel conversion!!! thousands of lb.ft of torque and epic turbo lag!!!! it doesn't really matter about the economy either as it'll be nearly free fuel!

i know about the 324td lump which could be a good starting point but will the turbo clear the steering column (especially if i fit a larger one!!!)

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Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:22 am

Veg oil is cheaper at Makro, £9.18 / 20 litres :wink:
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:32 am

any derv conversion should be based on the 330/530D engine , anything else is a wasted effort , 525TDS engine will struggle to pull your foreskin back M8

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gareth
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:22 pm

E30Mark wrote:Veg oil is cheaper at Makro, £9.18 / 20 litres :wink:
tell me more!!!!!!!!!!!
ant wrote:525TDS engine will struggle to pull your foreskin back M8
:D :D :D
even with a turbo the size of me? :D

those 330D lumps are quick but i assume will be very costly? negating the cost saving point behind diesel conversion?
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gareth
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:48 pm

Gareth this is going to sound really stupid but are you honestly using veg oil in a diesel car?? I've never heard of this before and I know April the 1st has gone :mad: can you seriously run a car on veg oil?

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gareth
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:06 pm

i shit you not. :D

you can either go a bit home-chemist and make biodiesel but you need to 'brew' this (just throw it in), or you can use fresh new veg oil thinned out with diesel (5:1) or petrol (10:1) (what i'm currently doing), or you can use 100% veg oil if you heat the oil before it hits the pump.

modern diesels aren't so chuffed with it but the older (clattery) ones are fine.

before anyone copies me, i suggest reading up on it. biggest risk if having a lucas diesel pump as these go bang! my french poomobile has a bosche one! :D

my long term plan with the 406 is to get used veg oil, filter it and mix it with petrol (to thin it) and also fit a heat exchanget to heat the fuel before the pump to make life easier for it as this is thicker than diesel.

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee
http://www.frybrid.com/forum/

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Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:10 pm

older derv burners will run on veg oil, rapeseed oil and shampoo iirc, performance wil suffer but who cares :lol:

:mad: power to the people and sod the fuel tax
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Brianmoooore
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:20 pm

LPG the 335i. Easy, cheap conversion, and will half your fuel costs instantly.
Drove an oil burner (Audi A3) last weekend for 300 miles. Refueled the thing and could smell it on my hands all day.
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:21 pm

gareth wrote:i shit you not. :D

you can either go a bit home-chemist and make biodiesel but you need to 'brew' this (just throw it in), or you can use fresh new veg oil thinned out with diesel (5:1) or petrol (10:1) (what i'm currently doing), or you can use 100% veg oil if you heat the oil before it hits the pump.

modern diesels aren't so chuffed with it but the older (clattery) ones are fine.

before anyone copies me, i suggest reading up on it. biggest risk if having a lucas diesel pump as these go bang! my french poomobile has a bosche one! :D

my long term plan with the 406 is to get used veg oil, filter it and mix it with petrol (to thin it) and also fit a heat exchanget to heat the fuel before the pump to make life easier for it as this is thicker than diesel.

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee
http://www.frybrid.com/forum/

:cool:
I take my hat off to you mate :D very impressed and I've learn something new today...
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:40 pm

gareth wrote:
E30Mark wrote:Veg oil is cheaper at Makro, £9.18 / 20 litres :wink:
tell me more!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, my mistake it was £9.14 / 20 litres.............

It knocks a bit more than standard diesel at low temp, but who cares !

Makes you wonder why the government doesn't promote this as an environmental alternative to fossil fuels !
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:45 pm

Brianmoooore wrote:LPG the 335i. Easy, cheap conversion, and will half your fuel costs instantly.
i'm planning on keeping the 406 for my wife and kids to do the school run and also keeping the 335i and converting to LPG. the problem is i'm planning on turbocharging or supercharging the 335i at some point so i'm not sure where i'll stand with FI and LPG...

i may get a E36 turbo diesel to replace the 406 as my wife is as much of a car nut as i am and is pining for her E34 525i sport again... a E36 with a uber pokey diesel could be fun?

or a E21 with a yank diesel V8???!!!!!!!!! :D
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:53 pm

Why not just run it on red?
Its cheaper and much easier, and if you get caught with either surely you are still going to face the same charges?
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:08 pm

not sure where i'll stand with FI and LPG...
LPG has a bonus effect of reducing the charge temps dude, needs more ignition control due to the burn rate but other than that, no downside
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gareth
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:43 pm

DanThe wrote:Why not just run it on red?
Its cheaper and much easier, and if you get caught with either surely you are still going to face the same charges?
red costs money and needs to be sourced illegally. using it too is illegal. once i'm up and running, i'll sort out paying fuel duty on the recycled / cleaned waste vegetable oil. this is 100% legal... if a tell them about the 'full' amount i'm using. though this could be impossible to prove... winkeye

i could say 'officially' that i'm using 10 litres a month and then pay less than a fiver in duty. if i get pulled, i can prove that i'm paying. :D

all a bit iffy but even at 100% straight up honest, it's legal and about the cheapest way of running a car as the fuel itself will be free (chippies have to pay to get it disposed of)
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gareth
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:45 pm

Ant wrote:
not sure where i'll stand with FI and LPG...
LPG has a bonus effect of reducing the charge temps dude, needs more ignition control due to the burn rate but other than that, no downside
ahaaaaaaa :D have you played with it before?

this sounds very very interesting. i may have to pay you a visit at some point as i'm only in hastings :D

i assume a swap to 3D mapping and FI would allow enough control over ignition?
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:05 pm

Shit stinks came up behind a old merc running it the other day on M5 had sign in back window saying he was using it lol
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:18 pm

it smells a lot nicer than diesel!!! my tailpipe smells like a BBQ!!!
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:03 pm

Might do but im a HGV mechanic so I wouldnt notice 2 stroke diesels I work on kick out alot of smoke and worked on cheiftans and challenger tanks before that which kick out stupid ammounts of smoke when they start. The veg oil really got to me tho had to over take quick and could still smeel it for a long time after.
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:17 pm

i've heard that a few people use white spirit to thin it rather than petrol and this apparently is nasty / noxious smelly stuff. could be that? what did the sticker say? biodiesel?
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:18 pm

Brianmoooore wrote:Refueled the thing and could smell it on my hands all day.
This is so true!!!

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Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:28 pm

Demlotcrew wrote:
Brianmoooore wrote:Refueled the thing and could smell it on my hands all day.
This is so true!!!

Andrew
i filled up with sunflower oil and all was lovely, then filled up with rapeseed oil and it stinks!!! nearly as bad as diesel! it's like a weed/gardening type smell!

it made my wifes eyes water. we didn't know why she was getting all bunged up and had stinging eyes until i looked to see what the 'veg' was. whenever we drive past a rapseed field her hayfever goes mad, this was 51 litres of pure refined allergy!!!
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gareth
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:37 pm

i wonder if something like this would be a good replacement for the 406?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-E36-TDSE-3-se ... dZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1993-BMW-325-TD-W ... dZViewItem
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:32 pm

gareth wrote:i've heard that a few people use white spirit to thin it rather than petrol and this apparently is nasty / noxious smelly stuff. could be that? what did the sticker say? biodiesel?
I reakon it was, it almost made me sick
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:20 pm

i read about this bloke who was using it and was chuffed, until he had to reverse down a single track doad and reversing though his own exhaust fumes made his eyes water so much he had to stop!!!!

i reckon that would create a bit of unecessary attention!
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Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:39 pm

Just to add , ive used veg oil in my pug 306 td and i didnt feel much loss in power. But i have been running a 50/50 mix of veg and diesel.

Time for a makro card for me at that price , ive been getting mine from tesco's.

Also a mate of mine gets his veg oil from two chip shops , its all there waste oil and they have to pay to get rid of it. He runs the oil through home made filter and pump to get any nasty bits out first , but you should smell the fumes , makes me feel hungry everytime he comes round.

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Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:58 pm

hehe! class!

your mate sounds like he's doing exactly what i'm looking to do. what ratio is the fuel? 50:50 like yours?

i'm running 90% veg oil, 10% unleaded.
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topspark
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Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:03 am

No he runs 95% veg with 5% diesel and he has fitted a fuel tank heater.

It is an old Volks passat diesel he runs and he has been using veg for about 3 years with no adverse effects.

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Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:05 am

LPG exhaust: Water vapour (more than petrol), CO2 (less than petrol), and a hint of that nice warm smell you get when you go into a room with an open gas fire.
Last edited by Brianmoooore on Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:05 am

that's the other way of doing it!

i'm going to use a heat exchanger from the heater hoses as an added heater for the veg oil but play it safe with the 10% petrol too as it's cheap enough!
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Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:12 am

Gareth ,

Heres a link to web site about it , if youve not alraedy seen it? There is also a link on this web page about making biodiesel but it looks a bit messy to me and you need high strength acids.


lee
http://www.ravenfamily.org/andyg/vegoil.htm
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Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:13 am

Brianmoooore wrote:LPG exhaust: Water vapour (more than petrol), CO2 (less than petrol), and a hint of that nice warm smell you get when you go into a room with an open gas fire.
that sounds well cosey! i like the idea of playing with alternative fuels!!!

give me a bottle of calor gas and some lard and my cars could run for a week!!!! :D
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Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:10 am

Biodiesel is the way ahead. My GF's golf diesel runs on it from a garage on the A64 betwee York and Malton. Well, its more like a farmyard - but they charge 70p/litre for proper biodiesel which makes the exhaust smell slightly of chipfat but thats it. 100% legal including bloody fuel tax :/

btw, the government taxes biodiesel at a reduced rate as it does LPG and would bio-ethanol (if anyone bothered with it). However, thats going to end in 2008 according to the most recent budget so LPG conversions are going to get more expensive to run. So is biodiesel of course, but you don't need to convert a diesel to run on one....

page three of this if I'm reading it right....
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Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:01 am

Morat wrote:Biodiesel is the way ahead. My GF's golf diesel runs on it from a garage on the A64 betwee York and Malton. Well, its more like a farmyard - but they charge 70p/litre for proper biodiesel which makes the exhaust smell slightly of chipfat but thats it. 100% legal including bloody fuel tax :/

btw, the government taxes biodiesel at a reduced rate as it does LPG and would bio-ethanol (if anyone bothered with it). However, thats going to end in 2008 according to the most recent budget so LPG conversions are going to get more expensive to run. So is biodiesel of course, but you don't need to convert a diesel to run on one....

page three of this if I'm reading it right....
Yea be careful runnning on untaxed fuel as a couple of years ago loads of people where stopped in south wales running on untaxed biofuel. The were found by the scent!

EU regulations states that by 2010 ALL diesel will have to be 10% bio. Much of it is already.

I agree with brianmoore though deisel is foul stuff, it makes the insides of your lungs pop and eventually bleed, far worse than smoking! (Thats why I wear a mask when cycling in london....)

LPG is the way forward. Seen a few gov documents (its great being a civil servant!) about ^ and the ending of the reduced tax for LPG, and it doesn't look like it will end in 2008 as there are so many local council+ other government cars that have been converted to run on the stuff.

Isn't LPG equvilant to 100octane?
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Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:08 am

someone do an e30 m47 swap already.

it'd be like a 318iS, but with torque. And, you could badge it 320iSTD 8O
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