My car, and why

General E30 related discussions -
Please put technical questions in E30 Tech Help forum below

Moderator: martauto

Ant
Retired Team Member
Retired Team Member
Posts: 10496
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:00 pm
Location: PD+E dept :D

Post Fri May 26, 2006 8:21 pm

Ok, wrote this all a while back, but I've had some Pm's and emails about it so heres some prose on what, why and how, enjoy, or yawn :lol:

The Sleeper Project, why ?


OK, I think we're all familiar with the concept of a sleeper, or Q car, looks stock externally, but has some major modifications under the bonnet, with little or nothing to hint at what lies beneath, that's the main aim for me, maximum Q

The car :

For the project I purchased a mint, fully historied 1987 325I Se 2 door in Zinnobar red, not my 1st choice of colour , but a car this solid, with the history to back up the condition, sometimes you just have to live with it ( its grown on me over time , not dolphin grey though is it  )

As I knew full well what I had in store for the SE ( nicknamed granddad BTW ) I uprated the brakes and suspension before setting about the main point of interest, more power 

Modifications:

The engine was superb having had a crated BMW replacement in 1995, and having covered 30K since then, so nothing to do there then, result!

Being a Cat ready engine, the compression ratio was fairly low to start with , so I decided to just turbo the beast as it was, and uprate anything that failed later, to this date there have been no issues with the install in over 10K miles ( touches wood)

The turbo install:

My aims were to create something that was almost factory in appearance and which drove without any lag or massive jumps in power, smooth and silky , to compliment the BMW engine in a way not seen previously, with masses of midrange torque in exchange for sky high BHP figures

Yes there are mega power 325i turbos in the US and Sweden, but as this is my daily driver 500 bhp was not the aim, if I'm honest 300 bhp was the goal I set myself.

The turbo I chose was donated by a 2wd-sierra cosworth, it's a stock T3 with a 0.50A/R on the intake, and 0.47A/R on the turbine, in English that means its quite small, and should deliver lag free boost, nice! The unit was duly rebuilt an received a few internal mods to help with its new location

The manifold was in fact from a rare BBR kit produced in 1991, it's a log type manifold and very compact in design, although originally BBR used a smaller T2.5 turbo, the T3 was more available,more capable and bigger and as they share the same input flange,would bolt straight on without issue.

To get oil in and out of the Turbo, a feed was taken from the oil pressure switch, and a drain added to the upper portion of the sump, perfect, the turbo is installed, now what?

The intercooler story :

Why do I need one, well as pressure increases so does temperature, the downside is air density drops , not good for power hence the need for an intercooler to cool the engine intake charge down again

My 1st choice was a 2WD cosworth intercooler, compact but very efficient, and obviously a good match for the turbo, a unit was procured and I set about fitting it in…..

In short, the IC didn't fit !, it would if I cut the front valance out, but that's giving the game away, a soloution had to be found, and fast

A chance visit to a breakers threw up an alternative unit, From a Volvo, it had the inlet and outlet where I needed them, and was the same size as the stock BMW rad and very slimline, Result, the IC was purchased and cleaned up ready to install.

With the IC installed between the rad and front panel, no external signs of what lay beneath were evident, perfect for the Q car

So we have a turbo and intercooler installed, now to join them together.

I selected to run 52mm charge pipes, some 4 metres in total were procured and with some deft cutting and welding, shaped to fit the confines of the engine bay.
We are now officially turbocharged! Great, but it throws up another issue …..

How to fuel the car :

Ok, I knew this to be an issue from the outset, there's simply no way for the stock ECU to see the boost, and flow enough fuel to prevent a lean condition, a soloution had to be found, and fast, I wanted to drive the Sleeper

Standalones:

OK, big word, what's it mean, in simple terms it's a replacement ECU with more capabilities and flexability than the original, for this project I looked at many , most were over a thousand pounds and would require a lot of tuning on a dyno ( expensive) to get right, oh dear, another possible hitch in my plans.

An alternative is an FMU typically, this replaces the stock fuel pressure regulator, and when the engine goes into positive pressure (boost),the force acting on the FMU causes the fuel pressure to rise, thus increasing flow, A cheap solution yes, but I wanted a car that drove as good as BMW intended, the FMU was not an option.

Megasquirt:

This is the standalone ECU I chose, after almost a month reading up on various ECU's, I chanced upon the Megasquirt main site, looked good, capable and cost effective, in short just what I was looking for.

I'm not going to cover the tech specs in much detail here, but with an onboard MAP sensor there were obvious advantages to the unit, so I duly purchased one and set about fitting it

I could wax lyrical all day about the ECU itself, but in short it's reliable and capable , not state of the art in terms of spec, but more than good enough for my install, and because of the open source design, easily modified to perform many more tasks than originally intended, with no downside


The install:


1st step is the loom, you have 2 choices, add a new one and disconnect the old, or splice the new ECU connector into the stock loom and proceed that way, either is fine , however its important that all connections are good, and sheilded where applicable.




Looks bad doesn't it ! its not to be honest, the supplied wiring diagram for the Megasquirt shows where each wire need to be routed, and by using the BMW diagrams, each is soon connected to its desired location.

Once loomed and tested fully with a multimeter, its time to fit the ECU itself


The ECU is plugged in and ignition switched on, time to hook up the laptop and see if the blood sweat and tears I shed were worth it ….

Result ! all seems to be working as intended, I got the screen up showing engine speed temp etc and all was displayed in the correct sense




Time to turn the key and see what happens !


The starter churns and the engine coughs and splutters……. Finally it catches and bursts into life, to immediately splutter to silence again, better than I'd hoped for to be honest, and nothing less than amazing considering mere hours before the loom was a mass of spaghetti.

Time for a cuppa and to reflect upon how far I've come, now for me the best part tuning the car for optimum performance and reliability

Again I wont cover this in much detail, but suffice to say, unless you have access to a wideband air/fuel ratio tester, this stage will be almost impossible and very frustrating to complete , you can however get the car to run quite well at idle using only the engine vacuum indication on the screen , lowest vacuum is normally the strongest idle, in the case study we have here, the M20 engine has best idle around 35 Kpa

Once happy with the idle ( better than stock BTW ) and with the laptop and Wideband hooked up ,. Its time for a slow drive !

Oh dear, a lot of work to do, the car is lean everywhere and the injectors are maxed out already, time for some larger units to be fitted then  I had suspected this may well be the case

After some research in the US, I opted for some 42lb/hr injectors quite a jump from the stock 14.3lb/hr units and to some extent overkill in this application, however the Megasquirt ECU allows any injector to be used so in they went.
After “ rescalingâ€a the injector flow in the Megasquirt tuning screens, a second test drive was carried out, much better air to fuel ratios, far from perfect but we're finally getting there folks !

After a day or two spent driving slowly around, building a fuel map to keep the engine running in top condition, it was time to try some boost.


Boosted 1st drive:

Below is a quote pulled from a forum I moderate on, www.e30zone.co.uk I have taken it straight off the screen as it reflects the moment perfectly

“Well, light greens are in, boost is @ 4.5 psi ( for now)

ventured out for a short test drive, set the AFR to 12:1 so its rich as hell but safe as houses, only tickled the loud pedal , no higher than 3K rpms.

verdict ?

grunt like a 750I , effortless cruising on little or no throttle, pulls 5th @40mph ( 1.6K) without a blip, must admit I am stoked

found the boost comes in @ 1.8K with load, I got some very strange looks from a group O lads @ a bus stop, dunno what they actually said but it sure looked like " dump valve , WTF !!!!?? ** , those aint turbo"

next step is test drive with co pilot so I can tune the VE tables, then I'm upping the boost to 7 psi there's enough fuel capability for 40 psi without any danger of going over 100% PWM, never going that high but 12-15 would be the main aims, depends on the intake temps, saw ambient +/- 2 degrees on the short drive today.

Gas bench agrees with the on board 02 so @ least I know I'm sound there.â€a



As you can see, I was quite pleased 

Fresh from the success of the 1st drive, I used the Megasquirt's datalogging function to see where improvements could be made, there were plenty trust me, but I proved the concept and with some more tuning over the following days, with incremental boost increases, I was ready for someone else's opinion on the car, cue my Friend Salman, and his expert analysis

Again quoted from e30zone

“5.5 Psi and had a drive yesterday on my own.

The power delivery is enough to scare my 3.8 M5 - I'm sure it will be faster once boost is turned up.

The level of refinement is unreal, the idle is better than stock. Simply fantastic.

If you're thinking about going turbo do not hesitate!â€a


He's not easily pleased so the above quote can only be a glowing recommendation, Using Sal to drive and with me on the laptop,we soon had all the issues ironed out, the car had become exactly what I wanted, and drove like the maker intended, smooth and silky with approximately 50% more power to boot.

Summary:

OK, my aims were to created a sleeper/Q car.Been there done that, along the way many lessons have been learned, the chief one being you can achieve your goals, but forethought and planning are key to the overall success of the undertaking, willingness to compromise in certain areas helps too

Indeed there were some compromises on this project, mainly down to a lack of space but we got there in the end, and I stand by what I achieved.

What next?

As with all these things, I'm writing today in retrospect, it all seems a long time ago, it isn't but the memories are fading, hence this prose.

From the inception of this project to its conclusion I have honed many skills, indeed a spin-off from the project is I have carried out a number of commercial Megasquirt installs, including all the hardware building, wiring and tuning, and another e30 turbo conversion, all of which have been well received by those that commissioned them.

I've found that in the pursuit of perfection I've actually remapped my ECU 67 times since the original basemap went in, its true there was nothing “wrong “with it from the outset but each time a tiny change resulted in more power , lower emissions or better economy, all data I collect goes back into my fast growing map collection for use on later projects.

One thing I have noticed is mapping can be very subjective, some customers expect a linear power delivery, others a top end rush, the reality is anything is possible with different mapping styles, another case for horses for courses maybe ? whatever the case, that's why I feel its important to establish what the customer wants, and needs before commencing an install

You could say I've become addicted to tuning, I have to agree  but that's the real beauty of the ECU, you can change things whenever you need or want to, bigger engine,new exhaust sytem, sporty cam profile, throttle bodies all no problem, just retune the existing map to optimise it for the new parts you added, Megasquirt is not only for those planning major engine mods, you'd be surprised how much an air filter can affect the overall tune of the vehicle, this is what brought me to Megasquirt in the 1st place, it gave me the ability to step outside the limits of chip tuning and really exploit the engines full potential .
Product Development and Endurance for Delphi.

Original performance chips, original works not unlicensed copies :D Email FTW
Conan
E30 Zone Squatter
E30 Zone Squatter
Posts: 1557
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Reading

Post Fri May 26, 2006 8:36 pm

:bow: What a great read!
'91 Sterling Silver e30 320i SE
'96 Avus Blue e34 525i Sport
'92 Alpine White e30 318iS Touring
'86 Alpine White e28 M5 (008/187)
'02 Titan Silver e39 530d Sport Touring
'54 Cosmos Black e61 535d MSport Touring
'07 Sapphire Black e61 M5 Touring

[
tylerma
Engaged to the E30 Zone
Engaged to the E30 Zone
Posts: 5790
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Dagenham, Essex

Post Fri May 26, 2006 8:38 pm

Ant the mechanic
Ant the tuner
Ant the novelist lol

top work mate
d6dph
Married to the E30 Zone
Married to the E30 Zone
Posts: 12435
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Tiptree. Essex

Post Fri May 26, 2006 8:42 pm

is this going to be a paperback release??

Good read, nice to see a it more on the reasons why we do the things we do. Very impressed. Have you got any pics of the build?
Image
Ant
Retired Team Member
Retired Team Member
Posts: 10496
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:00 pm
Location: PD+E dept :D

Post Fri May 26, 2006 8:45 pm

Cheers guys, wrote that a long time back, never posted it up though, will add a few bits and bobs on where I'm at now and add the pix, probably end up on the holding page for the website I'm building
there are a few scattered pix in the FI section Dave, dont give that much away though, "update" thread is the best for info gathering :cool:
Product Development and Endurance for Delphi.

Original performance chips, original works not unlicensed copies :D Email FTW
d6dph
Married to the E30 Zone
Married to the E30 Zone
Posts: 12435
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Tiptree. Essex

Post Fri May 26, 2006 8:57 pm

no need for me to gather info, youll be doing it for me! :wink:

just off to buy my lottery ticket
Image
miniblob
E30 Zone Addict
E30 Zone Addict
Posts: 3153
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Croydon/Uckfield

Post Fri May 26, 2006 8:59 pm

Fantastic read!!!! I'm almost tempted now!!

Willing to give away an indication of the cost of a project like this??
327 Touring with bass!!!

>>> WWW.DNRVINYL.CO.UK >>> UK GARAGE SPECIALIST >>>
>>> WWW.DNRVINYL.COM >>> FREE MIX DOWNLOADS!!! >>>
Jon_Bmw
Dangerous when thinking
Dangerous when thinking
Posts: 7604
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Salisbury

Post Fri May 26, 2006 9:01 pm

Excellent read my good friend, I have done something a little similar, more of a guide as to how I did mine, its still along way off finished mind!

Do i get a cookie for reading all that, as I had to offer cookies for my valuation of my car thread :wink:

Very good read, some engine pics and dyno graph would complete it for me :cool:
dazleeds
old skool raver
old skool raver
Posts: 12883
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Empire Building @

Post Fri May 26, 2006 9:17 pm

excellent read fella

and for once it was understandable :D

im getting very tempted to go this route sometime soon as
major power bmw engines are a bit pricey for me and once there in thats that

as you say this has endless possibilities and can grow overtime

looks like you may have started a new trend mate :cool:

guess i better go now and start learning all about turbo,s etcetc

keep up the good work mate
www.oldskoolfantasy.co.uk
in the shit,the one to blame,yeh its all my fault ;)
Andy335Touring
Married to the E30 Zone
Married to the E30 Zone
Posts: 7144
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Long Eaton,Nottingham

Post Fri May 26, 2006 9:33 pm

That was an ace read, cheered me up and got me thinking positively about my car again after getting ripped off on ebay for a replacement engine. :thumb:

We need some picies though ! :)
fuzzy
He who sleeps with "Gingers"
Posts: 14351
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: melbourne Australia

Post Fri May 26, 2006 9:59 pm

that was indeed a interesting and informative read,what model of volvo donated the intercooler? im looking for one that will fit in the space between the rad and the front grill as im near the limits for the cossie rwd item im using atm.ill give you 3 months though before your bored of 300 bhp and you go raise the bar and go searching for 400bhp winkeye
Ant
Retired Team Member
Retired Team Member
Posts: 10496
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:00 pm
Location: PD+E dept :D

Post Fri May 26, 2006 10:03 pm

ill give you 3 months though before your bored of 300 bhp and you go raise the bar and go searching for 400bhp
Amen dude, amen !

Working on the wasted spark as I type, the injectors etc are speced for 420 bhp max, need a bigger snail 1st though, torque would destroy the trans !
Product Development and Endurance for Delphi.

Original performance chips, original works not unlicensed copies :D Email FTW
Gwynleym10
E30 Zone Addict
E30 Zone Addict
Posts: 3650
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: London/Cymru

Post Fri May 26, 2006 10:19 pm

Ant you make it sound so easy!

Superb thread
Superb project!

Oh and you know that red cars go faster....!
Image
Dual wheel carriers -------195litre Fuel Tank
London 2 Cape Town
www.Overlandinthesun.com
dn808e2
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Kings lynn, Norfolk.

Post Fri May 26, 2006 11:10 pm

WOW 8O 8O
MAN YOU SHOULD BE AT WILLIAMS F1
I'M SERIOUSLY
Or probably you are working at some interesting place already?
All the best
PS I'm gonna save this thred for my kids :D
Ant
Retired Team Member
Retired Team Member
Posts: 10496
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:00 pm
Location: PD+E dept :D

Post Fri May 26, 2006 11:16 pm

Or probably you are working at some interesting place already?
thats why I've setup on my own, the intersting place has always eluded me
Product Development and Endurance for Delphi.

Original performance chips, original works not unlicensed copies :D Email FTW
Demlotcrew
E30 Zone Team Member
E30 Zone Team Member
Posts: 13329
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:00 pm
Location: East Anglia

Post Sat May 27, 2006 12:35 am

Like the others have said very good read mate!

:cool:

Andrew
320Touring
E30 Zone Team Member
E30 Zone Team Member
Posts: 12316
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Glasgow (Scotland)

Post Sat May 27, 2006 10:21 am

*select ALL*

*open WORD*

*PRINT*

*Drool*

*starts saving for mental 2.7 turbo beastie*
The big Unit Parts Clear out Make me an offer on parts!
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... 81#2766881
Ant
Retired Team Member
Retired Team Member
Posts: 10496
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:00 pm
Location: PD+E dept :D

Post Sat May 27, 2006 10:55 pm

:lol: @ Neil, tks M8
Willing to give away an indication of the cost of a project like this??
Cost in £Â£Ã‚£Ã‚£ or cost in time?

To build my install( and make Fozzymonsters manifold ) was 117 Man hours, including planning and some tweaking time

For an off the shelf conversion price guide, check the Zone shop 8)
Product Development and Endurance for Delphi.

Original performance chips, original works not unlicensed copies :D Email FTW
maxfield
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 15185
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Mansfield

Post Sat May 27, 2006 11:09 pm

Great read!eyes are a little saw tho
Image
Morat
E30 Zone Team Member
E30 Zone Team Member
Posts: 8943
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: The Peoples Republic of Yorkshire

Post Sun May 28, 2006 12:54 am

Buying a straight E30 and letting Ant loose on it looks like the petrolhead's bargain of the century. You could have a 300BHP RWD car with uprated
(zone kit)brakes for less than £5k!
E30 Touring 0.35 cD - more slippery than prison soap :)

Image
Praise the Lard... and pass the dripping!
User avatar
WerkdE30
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post Sun May 28, 2006 2:05 am

absolutely awesome read!

im stunned that was the most enjoyable bit of internet info i have read yet.

i hope its gettin a 316i badge to really catch em off gaurd :P

would love to see some dyno sheets when its all sorted.

althaugh 300bhp "at the engine"? seems a big stretch for a standard 2.5 ltr?

id be scared of going too much boost n melting cylinders.

anyway hope u get to squeeze as much out as possible. seems to me your an extremely logical person ...

"I uprated the brakes and suspension before setting about the main point of interest, more power"

so i imagine your well capable without over doing it.

you have re insipired me to turbo or supercharge my car thanks man!
316eyes
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 947
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Sunny Greece

Post Sun May 28, 2006 2:07 am

Fcuk "The Da Vinci Code". Gonna read that again.

Congrats on the project, the article, your expertise, your patience etc. etc.

Well done :thumb: :clap: :clap: :cheers:
User avatar
M3Tony
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, nr. Reading

Post Sun May 28, 2006 5:22 am

It's 5am on Sunday morning, can't sleep, slipped downstairs for a cuppa...open Zone...what a read !

Sitting here, with smile on my face...

Your own business is the way to go - with those skills, if you need startup cash, it won't be an issue. Really great read.
DaveD
E30Zone Wiki Specialist
Posts: 5129
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Sheffield

Post Sun May 28, 2006 9:34 am

been away till today and just read this thread...mindblowing....how does this sort of mod effect the insurance and what figures do you get i.e. acceleration and fuel consumption...got to think about getting this done
Ant
Retired Team Member
Retired Team Member
Posts: 10496
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:00 pm
Location: PD+E dept :D

Post Sun May 28, 2006 12:21 pm

how does this sort of mod effect the insurance and what figures do you get i.e. acceleration and fuel consumption...
Insurance with all mods declared and a max BHP of 350 is cheaper than for the Standard car dude, almost always the case unless you're under 25.

Acceleration is, pretty damn good TBH, massive torque @ 2K helps with this ( 218 lbs/ft BTW, stay there til 5.2K )

Fuel consuption @ this boost level is about the same as a stock 325, more boost hurts thata bit though 8psi is approx 22 mpg, 10+ get a bit expensive when caning.

1/2 throttle cruising @ 90 ish gives 38 Mpg calculated, another bonus of the ECU setup, runs 17:1 AFR with a lot of advance in the midrange, lean cruise baby, oh yes.

My plan for the car was to develop a reliable and tractable conversion, then implement the next round of tweaks, thats where I'm at now, dizzy cap and rotor are destined for the skip reday for a wasted spark setup and more boostage, bigger turbo will follow although everything else will remain as current.

In terms of relibality, no issues whatsoever, apart from a failed waterpump gasket a few months back, I'm still using the standard clutch assy too, no problems there, good for another round yet :lol:
Product Development and Endurance for Delphi.

Original performance chips, original works not unlicensed copies :D Email FTW
DaveD
E30Zone Wiki Specialist
Posts: 5129
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Sheffield

Post Sun May 28, 2006 12:25 pm

how long would you need a car for?
Ant
Retired Team Member
Retired Team Member
Posts: 10496
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:00 pm
Location: PD+E dept :D

Post Sun May 28, 2006 12:33 pm

All parts are made to order mate, upon reciept of a sizeable deposit, 2 weeks lead in time then another 2 to complete the work M8

If volume was higher costs would be reduced, as would lead in time.

Group buy anyone ? :lol:
Product Development and Endurance for Delphi.

Original performance chips, original works not unlicensed copies :D Email FTW
gcorky
Boost Junkie
Posts: 2009
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: n.e england

Post Tue May 30, 2006 11:15 am

exellent read ant just spotted this.

ive just got a volvo i/c to mess with,turned up this morning!

i must say very inspiring,if i never clapped eyes on the various forums i woulda sold the e30s by now!!!!and been a fair bit richer....lol
Image

525 sport
e30bb
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Harlow, Essex

Post Tue May 30, 2006 4:47 pm

8O

Started my turbo project but still work on the theory bit.

Some questions to clear a few things up in my head:

Did u use a uprated fuel pump or rising fuel pressure reg with the megasquirt setup, or was the stock ok for the job?

Did u use the stock idle control value with the megasquirt, was there mods to ecu and which megasquirt version is it?

Did run M50/volvo TPS and stock TPS?

Uprated head bolts or mods to head or block to stop the gasket blowning?

Was their a increase of crank pressure, did u need a catch tank?

:D