Brake Kits?

Fri May 26, 2006 11:57 am

You would also reduce the weight of the disk.

Andrew

Fri May 26, 2006 12:11 pm

Ah yes, but disc mass has two side to it:

BAD. It's heavy and annoying, takes power to both spin up and slow down, and increases unsprung mass.

GOOD. It increases the thermal mass in the brake system, absorbing bigger "spikes" of energy input and acting a heat dump before the cooling air gets a chance to carry the energy away.

Like most things it's all about getting the best compromise for the job!

Fri May 26, 2006 1:36 pm

Yup thats true! Now all you need to do is find out what the best model to use.

Machined disk for lighter un sprung advantages

OR

Stock disk for its thermal properties

I would say that the difference between the two disks after machine of excess material would not be significant enough to warrant the extra loss in cooling capacity as I have found you can loose more weight in better quality tires than machining of disks.

Andrew

Fri May 26, 2006 2:04 pm

I agree! The money would be more use elsewhere on the car. (better rear pads for example!)

Sat May 27, 2006 4:51 pm

A quick question about the price (either from WMS or the Zone shop). The kit includes calipers/stainless steel brackets/discs/mounting bolts and washers, so the pads and hoses are at an extra cost?

Any idea of the cost for the hoses and a pad set (also the grooved discs)?

Secondly, if I was to go for the 280mm 4 stud kit, would I be able to use the same calipers on the E30 M3 strut, with 280mm or larger discs by changing the caliper bracket?? Im thinking of changing to 5stud, but not for a while yet and I should really uprate the brakes before I get the car on the road.

Cheers

Sat May 27, 2006 4:58 pm

some more info is here >> http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... ic&t=34867

ED

Sat May 27, 2006 5:04 pm

The kit will be put on the Zone shop and it is here where the orders should be placed.

A detailed break down of exactly what you get and the additional extras will be listed on Monday/Tuesday.

Sat May 27, 2006 7:18 pm

M5pilot wrote:The kit will be put on the Zone shop and it is here where the orders should be placed.

This is correct, everything should be available in the shop - including the extras etc.

jmc330i wrote: Secondly, if I was to go for the 280mm 4 stud kit, would I be able to use the same calipers on the E30 M3 strut, with 280mm or larger discs by changing the caliper bracket?? Im thinking of changing to 5stud, but not for a while yet and I should really uprate the brakes before I get the car on the road.

The calipers for the 280mm kit are the compact type (we do have a bigger radial mount one) and it should be possible to keep the calipers and possibly lines if you changed from 4 to 5 stud. You would need "M3 kit" brackets and "M3 kit" discs though.

As the M3 kit has not been developed I can't say how wide the discs will be - the 300mm E46 300mm discs I HOPE I can use (best bet for you guys in terms of future servicing and renewal etc) are also 22mm thick, but the 325mm ones are 25mm thick so you'll need the spacer kit to make the calipers wider - this just means you split the calipers in half, fit the thicker spacers and re-assemble with the longer bolts.

Does anyone know if E46 discs (discs only, not calipers) fit an E30 M3 - ie what "Big Disc" conversions have been done in the past? (I've not had a chance to test E46 discs yet and don't have access to an E30 M3 at the moment, E46 ones are deeper than E30 M3 ones so they might hit the balljoints etc...)

Sun May 28, 2006 2:00 pm

keri-WMS wrote:
jmc330i wrote: Secondly, if I was to go for the 280mm 4 stud kit, would I be able to use the same calipers on the E30 M3 strut, with 280mm or larger discs by changing the caliper bracket?? Im thinking of changing to 5stud, but not for a while yet and I should really uprate the brakes before I get the car on the road.
it should be possible to keep the calipers and possibly lines if you changed from 4 to 5 stud. You would need "M3 kit" brackets and "M3 kit" discs though.

Thats what I thought and was hoping to hear

the 300mm E46 300mm discs I HOPE I can use (best bet for you guys in terms of future servicing and renewal etc) are also 22mm thick, but the 325mm ones are 25mm thick

The E46 325i/328i discs are 300x22mm, the 330i discs are 325x25mm, the E46 M3 discs are 325x28mm.

Does anyone know if E46 discs (discs only, not calipers) fit an E30 M3 - ie what "Big Disc" conversions have been done in the past?

On S14.net there is a thread about fitting the E46 M3 discs with 8 series 4pot Brembo calipers behind the 16" BBS wheels on the E30 M3.
The caliper bolted directly to the E30 M3 strut without the need for custom brackets, although the caliper hit the inside of the spokes.

I seem to remember that a spacer was needed between the hub and E46 M3 disc possibly because of the 'disc offset' (if thats the right term to use), and by using the spacer between the hub and disc, this also moved the wheel outwards to clear the caliper (acting as a normal wheel spacer).

I dont know if the spacer would be needed for the smaller 325x25mm and 300x22mm E46 discs (the 'disc offset' might be different to the E46 M3 discs) but it gives you an idea of whats been done.

I do remember a pic of the 8 series caliper fitted behind the M3 16" BBS (with standard 280mm E30 M3 disc for comparison) and it was very tight - not a chance it would fit inside the M3 15" BBS.

Sun May 28, 2006 10:16 pm

Cheers for the info, the trouble is that while they needed a spacer I don't know if it was just to line up with the caliper, or if there was no room for the deep disc in terms of balljoints etc...

The only other way I can find out for sure is if someone with an E30 M3 could measure from the balljoint closest the disc, at it's closest position in hte steering/suspension travel, and let me know what the gap is. If it's 13mm the E46 etc discs will clear by 1mm, with the safety margin getting bigger as the measured gap get bigger. I'd really like to find there's a 18mm gap or bigger.....!

Mon May 29, 2006 2:34 pm

I found the thread I was talking about on S14.net - Click Me

At the top of page 5 it says the spacers are needed to "put the discs in the right place for the calipers" and then on page 6 (3rd post down) it also says the E46 disc will hit the bottom ball joint without the spacers.

The spacer seems to be 14mm thick.

Its worth remembering that they are talking about the E46 M3 discs - the non M3 discs might be different in terms of depth.

Mon May 29, 2006 4:45 pm

Spot on - exactly what I needed (well, with some crafty digging through people's image directories it was anyway!)...

I found two vital photos: One with the alloy-bell BWM E46 M3 disc on it's side, with 52.8mm marked up as the height. (confirming the offset etc is the same as the rest of the E46 range - "52mm")

Next I found that the spacers they made up to go under the disc were indeed 12mm thick as you said. (this gives the same offest result as the E30 M3 disc which is 40mm high)

Lastly there is a photo with it all fitted and there is about 2mm to the heat shield, then 2 mm from the heat sheld to the stering balljoint.

RESULT: Not good actually. I CAN'T use any BMW OEM discs at all (fek), unless I have hub-centric and expensive spacers under them, longer wheel studs/bolts etc etc. Also I can't go any "deeper" than the 40mm high E30 M3 disc was originally.

But at least I now have a spec to work to, so I'm pretty sure I can find a solution... Watch this space!

Mon May 29, 2006 7:09 pm

keri-WMS wrote: RESULT: Not good actually. I CAN'T use any BMW OEM discs at all (fek), unless I have hub-centric and expensive spacers under them, longer wheel studs/bolts etc etc.

Thats a shame.

Thats probably why one of the guys was making the separate bell and disc assembly - in the long run I guess it would be cheaper.

But at least I now have a spec to work to, so I'm pretty sure I can find a solution... Watch this space!

Sounds good

Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:53 pm

Just a quick update - I've found the best disc for the E30 M3: it's 320mm x 28mm, and it's 4mm closer to the steering arm balljoint etc than OEM.

Therefore it SHOULD be ok in terms of clearance, but the dust shields will need binning or tweaking most likely (better to compromise here than at the wheel / wheel spacer side!!!!). I'll be getting the prototypes done next, then it'll be brackets etc - again I'll keep you guys informed!

Keri

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:07 am

320mm E30 M3 kit (prototype) preview photos!

Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:26 am

Just out of interest, how much of a similarity if any is there between these calipers and the ones Bremsport used to make? (and possibly still do)

Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:11 am

Turbo-Brown wrote:Just out of interest, how much of a similarity if any is there between these calipers and the ones Bremsport used to make? (and possibly still do)

They might possibly have been made in the same place as make mine - but I can't be sure and of course Bremsport have gone bust AFAIK (yet again)! This is a radial mount caliper as well....