Have I Got Engine Problems *WITH PICTURES NOW*

[Patm3]

Right before I take my car to a mechanic I will seek my fellow zoners knowledge first. As most of you know i have done an M5 conversion on my E30 M3, the engine swap was no problem as it came straight out of one vehicle and went straight into my one, no problems except for a little beating back the bulk head.

Problems:

1) The whole of my centre console, including the gear stick and the electric window buttons heat up so much that if you leave your finger on the buttons to long it will probably burn you

2) from cold my temperature gauge reaches half way before i have even done a mile whether the traffic is good or bad, or the day is hot or cold

3) i have checked all the piping and jubilee clips, and looked under the car first thing before i drive it out the garage for leaks but there is none, but the water seems to be evaporating. i have gone through anti freeze, water and coolant which i am on at present, topping up 1.5litres every three days if i do heavy driving.

Surely the above is not normal, any help or ideas Please?

Thanks

[Dan318-is]

2) from cold my temperature gauge reaches half way before i have even done a mile whether the traffic is good or bad, or the day is hot or cold

Have you got any coolant in your cooling system at all!?!?

[Patm3]

Yes the pink stuff, and on that note i will edit my post as there is one more problem i have not mentioned.

[Dan318-is]

so its burning water

head gasket mate im afriad

[Patm3]

anyone to recommend to do this job, and thanks

[maxfield]

Maybe bexleys.

[Dan318-is]

Iv heard that heads on an s38 are a real bastard, cos its such a tight fit and so many wires etc in and around the engine. so considering yours is in an e30! good luck lol!

Im sure someone will be able to recommend a specialist for you Pat.

[Patm3]

What i should have asked, is a rough price of doing this job?

[maxfield]

I'd guess £200-£250

[GermanGorilla]

Hi Bajandaan,

The E34 M5 3.6 engine, although almost bomb proof, can have heating issues.

First, I would check your Thermostat, as it sounds as if it is sticking, replace if it is, driving with it sticking, ie hot, can cause serious issues, second, what rad size and what fan [s] do you have fitted for the conversion ?

The E34 M5 runs quite hot, so any reduction in cooling will cause hotter running, which is not good on these engines.

Oil and Filtre, what are you using? make sure that the oil cooler and lines are are clear, use synthetic 50 -10 as a min, and only use BMW filtres.
Is the oil cooler getting lots of cool air to it ?

The Getrag 260 /5/ as used on the E34 does get very hot, so maybe you are getting some 'heat sink' from the gearbox to the tunnel of your car ? but get the engine running at correct operating temp first, and then monitor the heat from the tunnel, which should reduce, hopefully.

If your running and electric fan, it needs to be quite large, and set to kick in at around 80-82 degrees, and tested that it holds the water temp steady, if not, then the rad is not large enough.

Hope this helps,

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

This thread moved on a lot as I was posting !!

Check your oil via your dipstick, if the oil is clean, no white/ sludge build up, it may not be the head gasket ?

Check your oil filler cap as well, and also look in the expansion tank, if the water has oil contamination then its most def head, just hope its gasket, and not cracked head.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Patm3]

Maxfield thanks, at a guess £200 - £250 is a good price, just making sure of a price so when i do take it to a mechanic i dont get ripped off.

GermanGorilla - How ya doing? the radiator and fan are the ones that came with the engine and have been running with the engine for the 55,000 miles it has done, so i think it might not be these items, but i will get the thermo stat tested, i will also take a picture of the rad soon and post it up for you to see in the next hour.

The engine was always serviced at Birds so i am assuming since the transplant the filter is an original but i will check also in a minute, but the car is now due a service as it has been sitting in the respray garage, for 4 months.

[Patm3]

oil is all good and the water has no mixing or sludge

[Andy335Touring]

Might be worth taking your spark plugs out to see if one or more of them looks sort of steam cleaned(water entering the combustion chambers).

And take it to a garage you trust to get it checked out properly.

How is the engine running ?

IF it is the head gasket and you want a genuine BMW head gasket set then it's showing on my ETK as 422 inc vat !

This price may be out by a bit so check with your local dealer and/or see if ECP or GSF sell a gasket set for it ?

Some one on here might be able to get trade/staff discount from BMW, it'd be nice to save some dosh on the H/G set !

[Patm3]

Thanks Andy i will try your idea also, and i can get trade but will have to wait until monday to see the price, £422

[GermanGorilla]

Hi Bajandann,

I would not jump to the conclusion that your Head gasket has gone.

And I do not believe that 200-250 will get the job done either, if it has.
Parts alone will be more than 300.00.

I would recommed that you pull the plugs, as already suggested and check them first.
Before you pull each one out, check down the plug bore and see if there is any water in the plug hole. Use a torch to see down, there quite deep.

If they all appear OK, and your Oil has no milky white residue in it and the expansion tank is clean and has no oil contamination, as you have confirmed, then I would start the engine, and remove the expansion tank cap, to see if water is circulating into the expansion tank correctly, if not then it might be your water pump that is playing up.

Whatever you do, do not let the engine temp guage go any higher than half way between normal and red. If it starts creeping very high, shut it down.

You need to establish that everything is working, Thermostat, water Pump, etc, before anything else.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Martinaston]

In the pic of the rad it looks damp at the bottom
(8th pic)

[Patm3]

thanks Gorilla and well spotted Martinson, i gather this damp could be the problem

[Andy335Touring]

A coolant leak that would be hard to spot with that engine(plenum's in the way) is where the heater pipes conect to the stubs on the bulkhead ?

[stonesie]

Also in pics 2/3 the front of the block is damp, cant tell if its oil or water from the pics....

[GermanGorilla]

Forgot to mention, that if your Thermostat is sticking badly, then I would guess you are blowing water out via the expansion tank, which would also account for the water loss.

If you think the rad is suspect, take it out, seal of the bottom hose outlet, fill it up with a strong mixture of water / anti freeze and let it stand.

Anti freeze will always find leaks, for sure !!!!

Gorilla,

[Simon]

Agreed with the gorilla, don't jump on the headgasket wagon, could be much simpler problem, and £200-250 to fix a headgasket on this engine is dreaming!

Electric window switches getting hot is pretty normal, especially with old switches that are clogged up, the switches are on all the time the ignition is on.

I've had a very similar problem with my M3 lately, constantly topping up cooling system, turned out I didnt bleed the system properly, and it was blowing off coolant through the overflow, since I've bled it properly, I haven't had the problem again.

I'd try and find a coolant leak first, there's loads of places it could be coming from, and not always easy to trace, especially if you are only checking in the morning, it would have dried up by then.

[Patm3]

this is why the zone is a good place, at least i got some work to do 2mrw instead of sitting down watching the tv, thanks for all your ideas, i will give it a test run 2mrw and see

[mrLEE30]

another thought, if your temp guage goes to half within half mile of driving that should be correct, my M52 engine gets to half sometimes quicker then that, the thermostat is designed to bring the engine upto temp as quick as possible irregardless of the outside temp. secondly an engine registering a temp has some coolant water in it, if there was no water the temp sensor would take much longer to react and would show incorrect temp readings.

what i didn't see you mention is what does the temp guage do after it reaches half way? does it stop or continiue to rise?

also of the opinion its a cooling problem caused by thermostat, water pump, blocked rad, or small pin hole leak (or air leak) or any combimation of these problems.

note you have to be very careful shutting down an over heating engine, heat sink will actually heat the block up after the engine has been shut off and can cause more damage (as there is no longer any cooling water circulating), better to never let the thing get too hot in the first place! (which is easier said then done).

small tip i have seen is to wrap the lower hoses and upper rad hoses in white paper and run for a while, pin hole leaks will wet and stain the paper, dont forget leaks can come from heatrer hoses and inlet heating hoses if that engine has them.

mrlee

[kam-325i]

Problem i had with my M20B25 was that the pipe from the top of the rad to the expansion tank was blocked, This was causing high engine temps and loads of water loss, similar to bolwn head gaskest/cracked head. Since i have cleaned out the pipe, i have had no issue's (Touch wood !)

I might be something as simple as that.

[Patm3]

took the car out for a drive today, and it got up to half way after about a mile and a half of driving, the temp gauge went up to half and stayed, and went down only twice to inbetween half and quarter, took it to my mechanic he reckons certain things have to go or be modded, total cost of about £1500.

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

Can you explain in more detail ? or are you happy with the suggestions ?

1500.00 is a lot of money for improvements, when its already all there, so to speak.

Temp Gauge sitting at about halfway on E34 M5 3.6 is about the norm.
On my E34 M5 3.6 the temp gauge sits halfway, unless on a motorway, where it will drop back below halfway a bit, but as soon as I slow down, its straight back to halfway

What did the Mechanic say was wrong ?

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[DelaneyG]

what does he think needs modding

[Jon_Bmw]

took the car out for a drive today, and it got up to half way after about a mile and a half of driving, the temp gauge went up to half and stayed, and went down only twice to inbetween half and quarter, took it to my mechanic he reckons certain things have to go or be modded, total cost of about £1500.

I think you are about to get bent over backwards and shafted there if all they can tell you is that "certain things have to go or be modded"

Can you not give it to local hero Ant to cast his eye over, i'm sure these engines arn't his speciality as it doesn't have a turbo on....yet . But he still seems to sort a lot of problems out for zoners.

[wildeian]

Hi,

Sorry, don't have much knowledge on anything other than the M20, but I do remember reading of a similar problem on a larger lump, that was caused by a knackered profile gasket?? Is that coolant on the front underside of your engine?

[Dan318-is]

Hi,

Sorry, don't have much knowledge on anything other than the M20, but I do remember reading of a similar problem on a larger lump, that was caused by a knackered profile gasket?? Is that coolant on the front underside of your engine?

Thats the m42 lump mate. shouldnt occur on this lump!

[Emotechnik]

Top up the header tank and pressurise the cooling system to check for leaks, you can do this with a professional pressure tester or as BMW have fitted a schraeder (tyre) valve on the header tank you can do it with a bike or foot pump.



The valve/pressure was sometimes used to help push coolant around when bleeding the system.

But I sort of remember it was also to prevent air pockets in the long water tube above the exhaust manifold, also extra pressure (it was something like 7 to 10 psi) will increase the boiling point of the water.

Their was an instruction label on the header tank for this (yours is missing)

I think the fluctuations you are seeing in the temp guage are due to the reduced capacity of the radiator, and the distance between the thermostat and temp guage sensor, when the thermostat is opening/closing you see the direct effect on the coolant in the area of the sensor.

Your radiator 'may' be big enough to cool the engine but it has a shorter coolant flow than a M5 one, this could be a reason you see the fluctuations.

[Patm3]

Sorry guys PC has been down for a couple of days think overheating was also the problem , but PC is now sorted, on the subject of the £1500 it mainly comes down to custom built parts, which cost loads of pounds, there is an example below of the radiatior he think i should use £600, plus fitting and modding will total about £1000, then a custom built 3ltr water/antifreeze/coolant bottle, which he states will keep the car a lot cooler, shown by the arrow but a lot bigger, think that one is a 1.5ltr.




The picture above is an example of his work, and i think he knows what he is on about, but the price is the issue. He reckons the rad should be moved from where it is at present to in front or should i say behind the front bumper so more air gets to it, and not heat from the engine.

[M5pilot]

Your cooling system is efficient enough. it was working fine before and now something is wrong. Why on earth would you want to spend £1500 when all you probably need is a new thermostat.

have you even checked if you temp guage is actually working properly?

You most definately have a leak somewhere.

Before you go and get raped for something you dont need get Ant to check the car over. You could also go to Pacerpete or ask Demlotcrew to have a quick look with Phil.

Your car could do with £1500 being spent on the suspension, steering parts, gear linkeages, brakes. Last time I drove the car these things felt as though they were totally fucked.

[Martinaston]

If your willing to waist that kind of money then why not just run the car until it overheats and the first place you see the steam come from will be the problem, then all you need to do is spend the £1000 on a new head