New Suspension. Toe-in or Toe-out ?

Post Mon May 22, 2006 8:28 am

I've just fitted the Zone H&R Cup kit to my Touring including new track rod ends.
Anybody know what the best geometry is. Can't adjust camber obviously unless i buy some other bits.
Really need to know wether to toe-in or out.

Cheers

Ian

Post Mon May 22, 2006 11:26 am

Very slight amount of Toe in. You'll need to take it to someone who really knows what they are doing though.

Have you fitted the M3 eccentric front control arm bushes? These make a big difference.

Post Mon May 22, 2006 11:39 am

i thought a slight toe out was desirable? well to me anyways as i hate understeer.

toe in makes more stable in a straight line, but it'll understeer sooner.. was my understanding

Post Mon May 22, 2006 11:47 am

For every day road use, dead straight if you can achieve it, if not, then a little 'Toe Out' as Johnno said, no more than 45mins out though, otherwise you will scrub your tyres very quickly with just road use.

Slight toe in with a Lowered car will induce understeer, again, as Johnno stated.

Lowering the car alters your roll centre, as well, so check camber and castor first, then toe.

Hope that helps,

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Post Mon May 22, 2006 11:50 am

Forgot to mention, sometimes by rotating the standard top mounts on the front you can have more negative camber.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Post Mon May 22, 2006 4:55 pm

M5pilot wrote:Very slight amount of Toe in. You'll need to take it to someone who really knows what they are doing though.

Have you fitted the M3 eccentric front control arm bushes? These make a big difference.

I forgot to mention i had fitted the powerflex eccentrics too. Does this change things as far as toe settings are concerned?

cheers

Post Mon May 22, 2006 5:13 pm

My understanding of it was its toe in for rear wheel drive and toe out for front wheel drive, If you put it dead staight and hit a bump at speed you'll find yourself in the next lane (or the barrier).
If you set it to toe out you'll wear the tie bar ball joints out quicker.
Understeer is normally a weight distribution or tyre pressure problem.

GermanGorilla
I didn't think you could rotate the top mounts ? the turret holes are not 120 dergrees apart

Post Mon May 22, 2006 6:02 pm

they aren't the top mounts only fit 1 way

Post Mon May 22, 2006 6:24 pm

Top Mounts on a E30 M3 can be rotated, I and many others have done it, so are the E30 different ?

I thought they were the same ?

If not, my mistake.

My current BMW's are running very slight toe out, with no issues, and they have been lowered.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Post Mon May 22, 2006 6:53 pm

E30 M3 top mounts are identical to normal E30, pretty sure they only fit one way.

Post Mon May 22, 2006 7:56 pm

I think you can swap/rotate the left hand top mount to the right hand turret, and swap/rotate the right hand top mount to the left hand turret, and gain negative camber on the front.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Post Mon May 22, 2006 8:03 pm

GermanGorilla wrote:I think you can swap/rotate the left hand top mount to the right hand turret, and swap/rotate the right hand top mount to the left hand turret, and gain negative camber on the front.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Top mounts are not handed, so that theory is down the pan.

Post Mon May 22, 2006 8:24 pm

All I can say, is that on my E30 M3 you can rotate the top mounts, and they are handed, and do fit in more than just one position, ?

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Post Mon May 22, 2006 8:31 pm

You must have some sort of aftermarket setup then, standard E30 and E30 M3 top mounts are not handed, and they only fit one way around, they also have a cutout in them that must be fitted in the corresponding groove in the turret.

Post Mon May 22, 2006 8:44 pm

If I could get pictures to upload I would post a couple, but it never works either here or at Image Shack.

I think its Tylerma ? who hosted a couple in the past for me.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Post Mon May 22, 2006 9:08 pm

GermanGorilla wrote:If I could get pictures to upload I would post a couple, but it never works either here or at Image Shack.

I think its Tylerma ? who hosted a couple in the past for me.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Try again, and if it doesn't work, I'll take a look to see why...

Post Tue May 23, 2006 10:18 am

Hi,

Tried posting a couple of pictures.

As soon as I drag the Image/Jpg into the field, the Browser crashes the web site and it disappears.

Same as it has always done.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Post Tue May 23, 2006 9:11 pm

Here's your pics mate

Are these the eccentric ones as they look slightly off centre, or is this because you've rotated them?

Post Tue May 23, 2006 9:52 pm

Hi,

Upon checking, these are Eccentric ones from C3 BMW.

These are able to be rotated and will swap over.

My mistake on the standard ones.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Post Tue May 23, 2006 10:03 pm

is that an S50 gorilla?

looks clean!

Post Tue May 23, 2006 11:31 pm

u can buy these from bmw they are about 110 each. They were made to help bmw bodyshops when repairing front ended cars. I've heard they are relutant to sell them at some dealers

U get a nice bit of neggy camber on the front when u lower anyways.

Surely toe in is only on the rear? when lowered the rears have loads of toe in.

I've changed struts many,many times now and normal top mounts fit one way only