318is m42 project update

[TommyC]

Some pics of the previously mentioned leaving gizzet.....

Approx blade dimensions before being hacked up, 18"x4"



The finished article, nice and shiney!!!



Sorry to go off topic there (why break the habit though.....)

Micromesh will be in the post to you tomorrow tim!!!

[Ant]

nice compressor blade dude, pukka leaving present, certainly a lot better than the argos voucers I recieved

Tim, well done fella, knew you'd crack the issue eventually, as for the Vb's, yeah they do run hot but thats not an issue really dude, if you are still concened perhaps add a larger heat sink from an old PC and bolt them to that ?

I love MS, its a steep curve to get started, especially trying new things with it for the 1st time, but its so adaptable and reliable I'm almost loathe to try anything else anymore

if you still want her dialled in I'll be glad to spend some time on it for you dude, I will swop it to AlphaN though mate, better all round for NA applications as stated previously

gimme a bell dude, happy to assist ya

[tim_s]

hey tommy,
That is a well thoughtful present, 3 hours is pretty good going for that too! haven't heard from you in a while, you're back I take it then?!

megasquirt is ok, doing something fairly pioneering and starting from scratch is always difficult, and I haven't had enough time to devote to it really. its there now just about though!

ant, cheers! yeah i'll give you a buzz, mb in a little while i'll get the mapping done as have to run in my new engine. i'm well relieved the MS is sorted. i think the VBs getting hot is cos of the dwell really, they're heatsinked to the endplates so have plenty of heatsink on them. will reduce the dwell and try again.
was thinking of running hybrid alpha-n, what's your opinion on that?

Good news this wknd anyway, have spent literally all wknd fitting the 2.1, but now its in and running! i'm knackered! have to stop the radiator deciding to drop coolant all over the place for no particulat reason (the rad and all hoses are fine), then its on with the running-in! i had a good mate of mine helping and it still took most of fri, sat and today to get it all sorted, although i did repaint the engine bay + loads of parts, properly bench build and test the new engine etc. which took a long time. The old engine was unsurprisingly in very good condition indeed. Anyway now have the 2.1 in with all new gaskets, timing chain, single mass flywheel etc, and the engine bay is looking very clean. I'm pretty chuffed.


Here's some pics:
The beginning




Painted engine bay


Bench build (before cleaning the head and sparying exh manifold etc)


Block in


Head on



BEFORE


AFTER (still needs a good clean)

[Jamesb318is]

Well done Tim! It looks great!
Megasquirt stuff sounds wicked, WELL over my head though!

[Gunni]

Your accomplishments are indeed great,

I vote AlphaN on your engine, if you ever go forced you can add MAP corrections in there as well

[tim_s]

Thanks guys.
Got 200 miles on the engine so far, went for a long drive to devon yesterday, everything is going pretty well. She ran a little hot for the first half hour or so, I think there was greater friction as everything bedded in, but since then everything has been great. the fuelling doesn't seem perfect, but is plenty good enough to run with. Cranking is a little difficult with the bigger engine, but when I go to MS I can just increase the pulsewidths on cranking a little. I've changed the oil once after 1/2 hr running, and the oil seemed fine, nothing untoward going on. I'm not sure about the performance as I've only used light throttle and low revs as i run her in, a friend wants me to get the car on the rollers on the 23rd, I'm not sure if I'll have enough miles in by then. I don't think I'll be on MS then either. we'll see.
i'm beginning to turn my attention towards the MS again. i want a WB02 sensor, £150 is a lot to swallow after the money I've spent of late. I'm beginning to think about alpha-n, i really like the idea of hybrid alpha-n though.

[Gunni]

What form of hybrid alpha N ??

If the MS has a 0-5v wideband input you should be pretty much covered with
running basic Alpha N,

First using a autotune function (if it´s there)
then remove the autotune function and use the wideband for fine tuning,
then use the wideband for closed loop running,
I can´t see a need for any more sensors really

[Martin347]

Hi, Tim.
Just wanted to say well done for getting the 2.1 in! It looks great! Why are you using the m44 inlet manifold? I didn't think it was as good as the m42- less high up torque.

[tim_s]

Hi, Tim.
Just wanted to say well done for getting the 2.1 in! It looks great! Why are you using the m44 inlet manifold? I didn't think it was as good as the m42- less high up torque.

Thanks martin! oh, and I'm not (using an m44 inlet manifold)! its an early m42 inlet manifold, the e36 m42/m44 inlet manifolds are the rounded sorta E or C shaped kinda things (with disa), if that makes any sense.
Gunni the hybrid alpha-n code for MS is basically a combination of the SD and alpha-n code, so it uses TPS and MAP to calculate the correct injector pulsewidth. i'm sure ant can explain better than me, as you know I'm still an MS noobie!

[tim_s]

Been playing with the plenum today, I got it back off the bodyshop as the guy's well busy. told him i'd have a crack at sorting the bubbling out etc, then he can spray it for me. think i'm getting there now, p40'd heavily over the fibreglass after digging out all the bits that had bubbled, have had it in front of my fire for ages after this paintjob and seems ok at the mo, we'll see. if it doesn't bubble i'll get it sprayed properly again. Got some 23.8lb injectors to go on too, its all slowly coming together. the engine's running in nicely, feels a bit lean on the motronic, but a mate is trying to borrow a lambda meter thing so we can have a tinker with the MS mapping.

[JAMZ]

Lovin that..

[keggy]

thats looks mental

[Jhonno]

there is the skool of thought of driving it nice and hard to get them run in nicely (without abusing from cold of course..) heavy throttle at lower rpm in higher gears etc..

[tim_s]

there is the skool of thought of driving it nice and hard to get them run in nicely (without abusing from cold of course..) heavy throttle at lower rpm in higher gears etc..

yeah i know, and doing light load runs through the revs is supposed to be good too. i'm just being sensible on it the first 1,000 miles as there's too much money invested in it, the other thing is with it running on the motronic its probably wise to be restrained until its properly mapped on MS. i won't be revving it much past 4k until after 1,000 miles. on 600 miles now though, so nearly there!

Cheers for the comments on the intake. its been next to a rad overnight and its fine, no bubbles. very relieved. there's one small bit that needs redoing, then the whole thing needs prepping properly ready for proper glossy painting. i had it painted gloss black before and it looked sweet. i'm up for suggestions though! I'm 50/50 on whether to have a white or silver 'BMW M Power' logo made up for it. i have a 10cm or so silver BMW logo transfer that I've also been considering using. want it to look as neat and factory as possible really.
cheers
tim

[tim_s]

tommy, thanks ever so much for the micromesh, you're a gent! that was a pleasant surprise this morning, i'm very grateful indeed. unfortunately i've done my finger in (i'd post up pics but its minging!), so will be off the car for a bit. bloody plenum.
but i'm really impressed by the micromesh, thats going to get me a great finish.
just need to sort out mapping now, i want a wideband lambda, but money's a bit tight at the moment having spent a fortune on all the conversion of late. im thinking of buying one, using it then flogging it on on ebay. any other m42ers out there thinking of going MS?

[Ant]

just need to sort out mapping now

I'd be happy to do he honours for less than the cost ao an LM1 Tim.

I'd understand if you wanted a full diy affair though, gets me everytime

[tim_s]

just need to sort out mapping now

I'd be happy to do he honours for less than the cost ao an LM1 Tim.

I'd understand if you wanted a full diy affair though, gets me everytime

at some pt i'll def get you to do some mapping on the car ant! the spec's going to be changing quite a lot from here though and i want the final tweaking to be done by you more than the preliminary stuff. i might yet get you to do it though! all a bit up in the air at the mo really. for the mo i have to run without the ITBs and I have standard cams and no headwork done yet either. its all on the cards though. and i still havent really made up my mind what I'm gonna do and when mapping-wise. could just get it mapped by you now and tweaked again later, which is pretty tempting! a mate of mine said he would try to borrow a lambda meter from work, if he does i should be able to do some work on it myself for now. i do think it might be nice to have you just sort it out properly as you obv know what you're doing a hell of a lot more than me!

[TommyC]

tommy, thanks ever so much for the micromesh, you're a gent!...... i'm really impressed by the micromesh, thats going to get me a great finish.

Don't forget to use it wet, and keep wetting it as you're using it. It lasts much longer because the water stops it clogging. That little lot should keep you going for quite a while!! But if you need more i have a roll of each grade.......

Glad to see the 2.1 in the car WITH the Throttle Bodies on

Sorry to hear about your finger, hope it doesn't fall off!! hehe!

[tim_s]

thought i'd do a quick update as i had a great day on the car today. Had the car running on the throttle bodies for the first time today

here's a pic:


The car is a rocket with the ITBs on. feels very fast and makes a great noise. very loud though, need to quieten her down a bit, but i ran without inlet pipe and air filter today as i only had a quick drive down the street so hopefully it will be a bit quieter when finished! the fuel rail needs some work as the injectors aren't quite in level and the injector seals are letting air in. throttle cable clip needs a bit of tweaking too, and need to figure out what i'll do for an idle, otherwise everything's pretty much spot on. it really is very quick now, has so much at the top end now, feels like it jsut wants to keep on revving. the sound is very m3-like.

also been working on the cylinder head, have a late m42 head that i'm going to flow and add piper cams to. will put up pics later.

[StreetSpec]

freakin awesome Timbo!

[Andy335Touring]

Nice one mate !

Is it still on a base map or have you had time to tweak it yet ?

[tim_s]

Nice one mate !

Is it still on a base map or have you had time to tweak it yet ?

cheers! am really chuffed with it, gonna have to bring the noise levels down a bit though! am thinking of running a standard BM airbox somehow to reduce noise - i know i'll lose some power but i need it to be fine for motorway driving etc.

i have a base fuel map thats been tweaked to the 1.8 engine on sheps' rollers, the timing map was designed by a mate of mine. the timing is pretty good, the fuel needs a bit more tweaking for the 2.1 but is not too bad at all really as i've increased the 'required fuel' constant in MS to accomodate the larger capacity.
once the throttle bodies are on for good and the head done it will be tweaked some more. i may put on the bigger injectors i have too.

[Ant]

Good progress Tim !

when you think she'll be with me... end of this week maybe ?

[ShepsEvo3]

Tim, very impressive stuff mate! Well done! Its really some achievement to do something like this, and to the standard you have managed to do it too!

Be sure to pop up and give me a drive round the block when you're all done

Paul.

[tim_s]

ant, end of the week sounds pretty good, but i dunno whether i'll have the throttle bodies on by then as i need a new fuel rail. what do you reckon, wait for the TBs and head/cams or just crack on anyway? wasnt expecting to get it running on the TBs so soon! if you've not got a lot on I could pop it down for you to take a look, can always tweak later i guess. the biggest problem at the moment isnt really the mapping, but nailing this pwm idle problem or ditching the pwm valve. here's a post i put up on msefi
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=126168
could try to rush the throttle bodies on there for the end of the wk, just need a K+N and a spare fuel rail to hack about..

cheers paul, been chatting to si and he's going to have a play with mine at some pt so i'm sure we'll be doing a trip to yours somewhen, be great to get some power figures and do a bit of tweaking when its all ready too.

[Ant]

possibly better left untuil you're 100% tim, if the fuel rail is sucking air @ the O rings the mapping will be off anyways dude

keep me posted, I can always make a hole somewhere for her m8

[TommyC]

Hahaaaa!! Glad it sounds like an M3!!!!!!

Was hoping i would do!!!

[Andy335Touring]

Hi Tim, can you tell me where/what car your throttle cable bracket is from please ?

Are you using a standard BMW throttle cable ?

[tim_s]

throttle clip is S14 dude! standard m42 cable.

[Andy335Touring]

Ta very much

[tim_s]

Quick update on this, have mainly been working at the mapping. Have tried all sorts of things, and am slowly getting towards getting the car running ok.
tried alpha-n, but was struggling like hell on light throttle, there's very little registering on the TPS with the throttle opened enough to let quite a bit of air in, as a result its extremely difficult to get a good map, I ended up having to use sensitive MAPdot accel enrichement to try to account for changes, i was pissing in the wind. A new TPS might help, I'm not convinced though, it seems that there is only a 1 or 2 increase in ADC count from throttle being closed to throttle being opened when driving the car around lightly around town.
As for running SD, I had a lot of trouble getting a stable enough MAP signal. Taking vacuum off one cylinder really didn't work, but this was anticipated, and I took vacuum off the idle rail from all cyls, but still had MAP varying by around 5KPa when cruising on the motorway. After adding a restrictor (narrower vacuum line and cable tie), a fuel filter to act as a plenum/dampner, and some cotton for the same effect, I've managed to get a good stable MAP and have a fairly well-tuned fuel map. Sadly there is sometimes very little change in MAP between say 70-80% ish and 100% throttle, despite there being different fuelling requirements, so I don't have as much control over high load fuelling as i'd like, so if on 80% odd throttle at lowish rpm she runs pretty rich and there seems to be naff all i can do about it. Otherwise MAP seems to be working pretty well for me, although the idle is not the most consistent. Still have quite a bit of work to do on the mapping though, I'm still not sure about how I feel about MS, its been an interesting project, but I wonder if it'll ever run as well as the factory motronic. be good to get her to ant and see what the MS can really do with someone who knows what they're on about.
My spark map isn't great, kinda in the dark with no sample maps and no idea what the car runs as factory, I'm also convinced that the MS doesn't fire the coils as nicely as the motronic. time will tell...
anyway enough ranting, will post up my maps later if there's any interest.

[ShepsEvo3]

Tim, I am sure the MS can be sorted to run just fine. I would check your TPS though to see if there are any missing "increments". It maybe that the MS isn't quite set correctly?? But then you seem to have tried everything.

Put some 45DCOE's on it!

[Ant]

I'm still not sure about how I feel about MS, its been an interesting project, but I wonder if it'll ever run as well as the factory motronic.

Bosch spent years and millions dude, the perfect transients will all crave are a product of their investment, MS can deliver all you desire, if you invest the time in it.

TBH, I'd statlog every trip over 20 miles and study what where and why, keep mental notes of Rpm @ X throttle felt flat/good/whatever.. then look @ the log and make an informed change nased upon that information.

Sounds complicated, but you get into it, I'm on map#117 now

with regard to the spark, check the dwell settings Tim, there are suggested figures on Msefi, somewhere

[tim_s]

Paul, you'd have loved some 45s on there I'm sure, I've heard about your carb tuning skills, that scirocco was a rocket - I remember Simon's capri too
The TPS is fine i reckon, main problem is the ITBs are so damn big that they let a load of air in with very little change in throttle position! they're quite a high wear item on the m3s i think, which is one of the reasons I haven't bothered to replace it, as I need a relible fuel system - dealing with small changes like that I reckon is asking for trouble. i'll show you next time I'm down
Ant, i know it'll get there, I'm going to see it through, will only look for other options when I'm convinced I've tried everything. I'll have to get her to you at some point to take a look, its just finding the time at the mo. I can well believe you're on map 117 or whatever, I must be on at least map 30 odd by now I'd have thought! I am datalogging everything and using megalogviewer to look at the logs, then making changes. It's certainly getting there, it drives ok really, I just want it better.
Is funny you shoudl mention the dwell, have had it set up to the settings suggested in MSEFI, but recently dropped it a bit further and its still firing fine, will continue to reduce it until I get problems, then will increase a little - i think the figure on MSEFI is a bit high and would like to get some more feel towards what sort of setting would be ideal. the coil drivers are nice and cool though and everything seems to work fine, just regardless of the dwell setting in MS the motronic sparks feel a bit smoother - not very noticeable but it is there - think getting the MS spark map closer to perfect will help. I may try a COP conversion soon to do away with the spark leads, hopefully that will help.
Fingers crossed it gets through the mot today

[CaesarBob]

Are you still going with this project Tim or have you given up?