bmw scene vs vw scene.

[whiterhino]

what are your thoughts in this.I prefer the drive and fun to be had in a bmw,plus they are better cars but as far as the modified scene goes the vw boys are streets ahead.People like the westside crew spring to mind they build awesome golfs that look as good as they go.I just dont see as many bmws being treated like this plus their shows are top notch.Gti international attracts thousands of vws what events have we got that can step to this and do we have anything that can play wth cars like (BIG DUB) a mk4 that does quarters in around 11 secs.

[Conan]

Worked for JustKampers a while back who are biggest VW camper supplier in europe - we used to sponser a lot of the big shows.

Biggest problem i can see is price.

Old golf or beetle in good cond. = £500 - £1500

325 Sport = £2500 upwards

M3 = £4000 to the sky

Also upgrade and sports parts for vdubs are cheaper and more accessable.

[Kos]

we have got a few e30's which can challange a fair few fast golf and fords, big dub is a different league, but my m3 was alway in the 13's at the pod and i know of a few more that will be running 13 and some dip in to 12's, that what i'm aiminf for

what you have to look at it that bm's have always been more expensive to start with, and very expensive to insure compared to golfs RST etc so thay are a no go as a staring point.

however things are changing, in the last 2 years the bmw scene especially in the uk has moved forward and taken big steps, with engine swops, turbo charging super charging, styling

i know my car was spoken about on passion ford when dips was the owner, that says something in my opinon.

[fuzzy]

purely down to personal preferance.ive never had a vw and its not a make ive considered when ive been looking for a motor.no reason for that though.my mates had a few ,mostly golfs and i agree the modding scene has a lot more happening,although the entire range seems to consist of the golf and variations of that.

[whiterhino]

i agree with you on insurance kos my sport costs me£1400 a year were as my mk2 was £800 and my vr6 corrado was£1200 but i feel the golf boys have more options and like conan said the parts aint that expensive.I know that its not difficult to fit a 1.8 20v turbo and its not difficult to get around a reliable280bhp.In a mk1 or mk2 thats one quick motor.I feel its difficult to do this with bmw on a good budget or am i wrong.

[fuzzy]

depends what you mean by a good budget.mine has cost around £6500 for my conversion,but that involved some upgrading work to.not sure if youd call that good or bad.its certainly not cheap though

[whiterhino]

put it this way fuzzy i could have had a 20v turbo conversion in my mk2 for£4000 can you get that power in bmw for that price.Youve took the cosworth route to gain the power you require a 2.7 conversion isnt gonna hit 60 in 6 secs or doe a quarter in say 13.5 secs is it.You need an m3 or a monster engine to compete

[Rich_W]

Random Thoughts

what are your thoughts in this.I prefer the drive and fun to be had in a bmw,plus they are better cars but as far as the modified scene goes the vw boys are streets ahead.People like the westside crew spring to mind they build awesome golfs that look as good as they go.I just dont see as many bmws being treated like this plus their shows are top notch.Gti international attracts thousands of vws what events have we got that can step to this and do we have anything that can play wth cars like (BIG DUB) a mk4 that does quarters in around 11 secs.

There are thousands of Golfs on the roads in all variants. Which means the aftermarket companies can see the value in making products.

As regards engine swaps. The 1.8T engine is availaible in thousands of crashed/broken GTi/S3's/ even Passats/A4s so they are plentiful, and at around a grand or so not too bad cost wise. Also being a similar physical size they are easy to fit into a Mk2 Golf for example.

Compare that to the current BMW range and you'll see that equivilent BMW engine (Im thinking of M3 lumps really) are significantly more expensive and there are relatively fewer about. I also believe theres an element of "BMW owners are wealthier, so we can charge higher prices" (but thats for another thread perhaps)

Also, Older VW's are a bit of a cult classic. As the later Golfs have come along they have got worse. And people still seek out a nice Mk1/2 Golf to modify as it had the orginal character. Whereas the newer BMW's tend to be better. So people tend to seek out a E46 M3 to own. And generally dont modify them to much as it detracts from the very competent nature of the standard car.


Take PVW Mag vs PBMW Mag and look at what the average age of cars featured is, and I would hazard a guess the BMW scene is for younger cars, So thats where the tuners will focus there efforts, but as there are less cars availiable they wont make anywhere near the number of products as the VW scene enjoys.

[Conan]

Take PVW Mag vs PBMW Mag and look at what the average age of cars featured is, and I would hazard a guess the BMW scene is for younger cars.

Good point - a lot of e36 and e46 in mags. these are musch more expensive than equivilent vdubs.

[Blue_MK2]

Im a VW nutter who is joining the BMW scene. (E30 Cab should be mine in a week )

VW scene is about BBS, Big engines, very expensive paintwork and ultra rare parts. Mixing parts from Audi's, Porsche, and other vw's too (subtle mods)
People are very friendly and helpful like on this forum.

old skool dubbers love their E30's btw

You cant compare the two when it comes to engines.
VW's are easier to work on and have more options. Also parts are not too expensive. Build quality is almost the same as BMW

I was going to go down the 1.8t route in my mk2 but saved it to buy an e30. best of both worlds

Blue

[dark_sounds]

im ex dubber,, black mk2 golf, very nice cars, though e30s are more refined driving experience, the gold is very responsive though!!! real drivers car.

2.0 mk2 conversion is easy, and a proven good bhp increase,


dub styling is a bit like e30 styling, (later gti bumpers like the tech 2 kit)
everyone loves a decked dub/e30. old skool kool all the way

too many similarities with retro designs,


even the mk3 golf and its bmw buddy the e36 shre something,, they both lardy and ugly! (have seen a few good examples though!"!!! )

[bottlecapE30]

I love both.. when i was looking for a new car i looked at Golfs and e30's. the e30 is just better because it is rear wheel drive. That is the only real plus the bmw has over the VW in my mind

[bootyman]

I think the biggest problem is as said above "PRICE OF MODDING" The E36 is as cheap as chips to mod, cause there are thousands on the road and the after market parts business is huge. Compare that to the E30 where there are relatively few things you can buy off the shelve, and even when you can buy it off the shelve it's usually 2 or 3 times more expensive than the other BMW's.

I love the Dub scene, but it dont take much to make a dub look fat. Not as much as a BMW anyway and i also think the less is more route of the Dub boy's makes for far more eye pleasing cars than the all out BMW scene, cause get it wrong and your car will look like you've got shares at Halfords. That's why i'm going the dub route with the Msport. It's still been chopped up, but i'm keeping the original kit and doing something with it, smooth everything off, slam the car and some wide rims with a nice paint job and interior and that's it. I guess you can also call it Euro, but at least i will have a E30 at both ends of the modding scale cause when i'm done with the engine on the Rieger, i dont think you can take modding a E30 much further than that

[320Touring]

Hmm, this is something that has been vexing me for a few days...

I was born and bred in the dub scene- dad had a '75 1303s bug

and we owned a selection of VAG group cars over the years. It was really me that got my dad and brother into the BMW scene.

I've found that there is actually a lot of crossover between the scenes, eg guys with 3.8 e34 m5's and mk2 8v gti's

They are slightly different in their approach though.

with VW, originality/"period" mods are prized within the older aircooled circles, but with watercooled, just about anything goes.

there are so many mk 2 and 3 golfs about , that manufacturers are able to offer a huge range of diverse parts to cater to everyone.

the BMW scene seems to focus on more "subtle" mods to enhance the package that bmw created in the first place. (e36 is a different ballgame).

Funnily enough though, both sets of enthusiasts are equally helpful and interesting!

however, as mentioned, costs play a big part.....

£168 gets me a mk2 1.8 8v that can keep up with hammoj28's 318iS (and that cost a bit more!)

£100 gets me a 2.0 short engine from a mk3 GTi that I can bolt the mk2 head to and get about 150+BHP! on an m20, the 2.7 conversion is similar but costs up to £500...

must be said though, RWD is a good plan-those aircooled dub boys know what the score is

[E30BeemerLad]

just out of interest, what is the equivalent forum for the MK2 Golf that we have for the E30 (zone)?

[320Touring]

just out of interest, what is the equivalent forum for the MK2 Golf that we have for the E30 (zone)?

this one is good!

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/index.php

covers all golf/jetta/polo/passat varients and positively loves to see engine mods!

[Geeman]

...yeah, and costs £25 a year for the privelege!

I think Ben (Bootyman) reflects the VW modifying scene in his E30's. The VW boys tend to go for absolute professionalism in their rides, and like Ben said... less is usually more.

I've been to loads of VW shows, the best in my eyes being the Edition 38 shows down near Northampton. If anyone wants to taste a VW show for the first time, then you couldn't get much more laid back, full of CLASS cars and have such a good atmosphere than this one. I'll be there for sure.

In contrast, most of the BMW shows lean towards originality rather than out 'n' out modifying. Don't get me wrong, I love both styles, but the VW shows definitely tend to bring out the laydeez!

So, with my E38 AND Mk2 Golf, I think I'll be okay this year!

[320Touring]

...yeah, and costs £25 a year for the privelege!

what does? can sign up to the forum's for free

as for the vw/bmw tuning/styling, I have to say that both camps get the "euro" look spot on