S50 Exhaust Manifold

[bigpimpin]

Hi, any S50 convertors out there got a pic of their modified exhaust manifolds? Should be getting mine done next week so would give the guy a headstart.

[jaistanley]

I'm going to second that.. I've just got the engine out of the roadster and looking at it, am bricking it about getting the manifold to fit.

A thread with loads of pictures of peoples manifolds would be an excellent resource for all future converters!

Where are you getting yours done? I was going to give it a try myself. If I can get the right shape by tacking pipes into place, I can get a decent welder to make sure it's all gas tight etc.

Another option is to get one made but this will no-doubt be very expensive and seems a waste not to use the pretty one that comes with these engines!

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

Makes a lot of difference as to what steering rack you are using, Manual, Power, some have a different angle and thus it pulls the steering link in tighter to the manifold, etc, what engine mounts you will use, different mounts are different heights, thus the engine sits higher or lower, has the engine mount position of the front subframe been reinforced, more power has a habit of pulling the engine mount nut back through the sub frame, especially with torqe steer, thus its easier to weld the plate on the top of the subframe, which in turn lifts the engine higer.

Every time the engine moves, it alters several areas of potential rubbing on the exhaust manifold.

As a general rule of thumb, sort out the components above first, which rack, engine mounts, are you reinforcing the sub frame mounts etc.

Then you need to know which engine position you are using, if it is set far back tight to the bulk head, similar to position 3, then the rear exhaust manifold of the two protrudes past the head by about 20mm. The front manifold if using M5 E28 engine mounts or E36 M3 Engine mounts with the locating lug removed and turned around, usally only requires modification for the Anti Roll bar, but if the engine is in position 2 or 1, then it can hit the front sub frame.
Some have 'grooved' the front subframe, for the exhaust to sit in, not my route, but it seems to work.

Where the exhaust manifolds end, the second manifold, one nearest the bulkhead will also be tight against the front wishbone bush.
Some here have gone with the American part, which is green in colour, and has a much smaller 'head' to the metal bush surround. I think they are about 165.00 USD, plus shipping plus import tax, say 245.00 USD landed?

Another route, which may be cheaper would be to contact Roger at MuzziMotorsport.com, he makes front wishbone bushes as used in the DTM /Grp A E30 M3's, Alloy Blocks with Uniballs which fit straight over the rear of the front wishbone, and which will really tighten up any movement in the front wishbones, offer centric offset, which will push the wheel slightly forward, allowing for more wheel/tyre clearence as well as solve the exhaust problem.

As these manifolds are Stainless steel, I would work out your tolerances and alterations and take them to a specialist.
I am not prejudging your ability, but a replacement manifold secondhand, some only sell them in pairs are around 150.00 each so 300.00 for the pair.
So what starts out as cheap job at home can soon become very expensive.

Pictures would only be useful if your conversion was exactly identical to the one in the pictures, any change in components alters the tolerances.

I was looking into putting together a package of Right Hand Drive Manifolds, these would have been brand new stainless steel and to built to cover all tolerances, E28 M5 or similar engine mounts, weld on subframe re-inforcing plates, UniBall rear wishbone bushes and Alloy locating chassis blocks, all designed to work with a Power Rack and linkages for a s50/52 engine conversion into a E30.
Cost would have been around 1450.00 plust vat, at which point I stopped.

I also remember that Ian332 had some power steering rack pipes made up, and may have some spares, but just another component you will require in the long list of parts needed to do these conversions.

It also explains why LHD cars with these various engine conversion are done in a day in Germany, they do not have the fun like your about to, with the steering rack / Manifold issues.

Just my two cents,

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Dan318-is]

More like 1 million dollars!

[buster]

I could do with a picture also

Getting them done soon and a couple of pics would be very usefull.

Mines RHD and fitted with e36 rack.

LOL @ dan

[Jhonno]

Making a LHD shell all that more tempting

[bigpimpin]

GermanGorilla,

I know this is not a one fits all thing but just wanted a guide as to where other people had re-routed the manifold pipes.

I'll let the guy test fit and modify as he sees fit as this is one part of the conversion i'd never tackle myself. I did think of getting him to take the dimensions as a guide to help others.

Anyway, if anyone who has done the conversion has any photos of how there's were done then I'd still like to see them.

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

I have a couple of pictures I can send you, but not sure how much they will help ?
I tried to send them to your Web URL, but there is no e.mail facility.

Only 2 pipes need altering.

Manifold 1, at the Vanos end, requires that the 'collecter Y' where the three primary pipes go in to one requires 'dishing' so as to clear the anti roll bar.

You need to ensure that you have your car at it's ride height, so that as the Anti Roll bar moves it clears the manifold.

You can do this your self by temp fitting this manifold, over the head studs, mark the Anti Roll Bar position, noting its angle and then by heating the manifold with Gas blow torch, you can 'dish' it with a ball pain hammer.
Do not try to do it all in one go, but after 2-3 goes, the stainless will slowly dish into the shape you require.

Manifold 2, at the bulkhead end requires major works to the last primary pipe, the one nearest the bulkhead.
It requires to be moved back away from the bulk head by 25-30 mm so that it does not hit the car bulkhead, it then also needs to be moved down about 35mm, on it 2nd and 3rd bends, retaining its existing format, so that the steering link passes over the top of it, and does not foul on the top of the primary when rotataing.
This primary also requires pushing back intowards the block, and there is quite a lot of room to accommodate it, below the head.

Do not alter the length of this, or any other primary under any circumstances, otherwise you will have major running problems.
All manifold primaries, on injected cars, are designed of equal length, so altering one brings dire consequences.

Hope this helps, it is a bitch of a job, takes many attempts at getting it correct and still looking decent.
It is a lot easier with manual rack, but I could not find a proper 'kwik rack' conversion for a Manual Rack, 2.7 lock to lock or less, people allege they exist but I have never seen one yet, or found a company that can convert one.

Another Million Dollars !!!!!!!!!

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Jhonno]

as for modding the No.6 exhaust primary.. ive been told you can use a No. 5 iirc from a spare manifold and that will do the job...

[Karan]

il get some pics when mine (s38 with e36 rack position 3(.5)) is done in a couple weeks time.

Karan

[bigpimpin]

Bugger! They guy can't do my exhaust until after the 10th of May

Looks like I'll have to concentrate all the other jobs now!

[buster]

My gadge is starting mine on friday !
He knows his stuff so i dont think he will take long.

[jaistanley]

Wicked news guys!

Lots of photos please

Jai

[bigpimpin]

Hi, I have just had the guy who is doing my manifold on the phone. He is struggling to get them past the steering column. Can anyone who has done this themselves please contact me ASAP, and maybe speak to the guy regarding this?

Thanks in Advance !

[buster]

Hi sandy,just give me a buzz.I gave you my number a while back in a pm

[bigpimpin]

Cheers Buster, I spoke to Ian332isport and relayed the info back to the guy and he seems happy enough, just don't think he wanted to chop the manifolds into bits then find out he didnt have to.

[buster]

What did Ian sudjest what is needed ?

Mine have had to be cut up quite a bit.To be honest,the guy doing mine said it would have been easier making them from scratch !!

[bigpimpin]

Ian said pretty much what gorilla said further up the thread. Cut the collector off the front manifold and make up new section, try to mimic No.5 for the No.6 pipe etc on the back manifold.

I passed this onto the guy and he said that it made sense to him and haven't heard anything since so everything must be goin ok !

[buster]

the second collector on mine where it splits into 3 primarys are all inline now instead of being 3 spread at 120 deg appart.It's difficult to explain so i will put some pics up when its done.

[GermanGorilla]

The problem with this manifold modification, is that no two have ever been done the same.

As I said before, there is a small market out there, which may induce more to do this conversion, as it is the RHD steering / manifold issues that put those considering it, off from doing it.

When they did mine I asked if they would make and keep a jig, but like they said, it was altered so much to fit, several attempts to bolt it in, that the jig idea got left after the second round of mods.

If I had a pound for every time I swore when putting the manifolds in and then out again, well, winning big on the lottery would be petty cash by comparision.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[jaistanley]

How's progress Mr. Pimp?

Cheers for your info Mr. Gorilla.

Any pictures yet?

Has anyone got any idea who to go to and how much to pay to have my manifold modified? I'm not at that stage yet but hope to be in a a couple of months and am trying to budget.... Erk.

Jai

[bigpimpin]

Went down for a look at how my exhaust is getting on today after a phonecall from the guy.

Basically everything is in place it's just that the collector from the front manifold is pointing directly into the anti-roll bar. There is not enough space to stick in a bend and "dishing" the pipe would reduce the diameter to half of the original which is no good!

So, decisions had to be made quick! We decided to drop the anti-rollbar and i will have to get some brackets and spacers made up to lower the mouting positions of the bar by around 15-20mm. This will give enough clearance without having to squash the pipe.

I don't suppose there is anything on the market that I could use to do this?

Oh and yeah, it f*cking tight in there, no wonder the guy is well hacked off with it now ! to be honest after finding out the diff is bolloxed I'm losing interest too! I saw a lovely E36 Alpina B3.2 touring for sale.....if only I hadn't started this !!!!

[buster]

hmm,instead of dropping the anti roll bar the guy who is doing mine is rebuilding the collector and moving it up and back over.The back collector has had to be remade also.

[bigpimpin]

Hey buster, Thats what I would have suggested but all that 3 into one thing looks a nightmare and the guy whos doing it is already pissed off!!

on a different subject are you using a 3.25 M3 LSD? Any idea where i could get a reconned one?

[buster]

Hey buster, Thats what I would have suggested but all that 3 into one thing looks a nightmare and the guy whos doing it is already pissed off!!

on a different subject are you using a 3.25 M3 LSD? Any idea where i could get a reconned one?

Im using original sport one (3.91 LSD) for now but i may go for the 3.64 LSD as Ian did.

I think you have to use the m3 one with the 5 speed so its either a recon or another second hand one.I haven't a clue where you can get one reconditioned,try doing a google search maybe ? Or try a proper BMW breakers as they will give a guarantee for at least a couple of months.