E36 rack conversion**** HELP please

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:16 pm

Guys,ive just had this conversion done as far as i know its IS a e36 m3 FEMALE rack,though this has only been told to me.. i dont know sh*t!..

anyway..

This rack has picked up exisiting holes with no modification what so ever,it hasnt needed a modified coupling or pipes,everything is the same..

as far as the rack goes,it looks the same bar the pipes on the e36 rack,these seem to be plastic and not metal and obvioulsy the track rod ends are completly different..

Turn to Turn is about 3.5 though that isnt a accurate way to determine wether its an M3 one i know..

I got this from a friend,he got the coupling made which i have seen but didnt have to use it on his Tourer and thought this was because its a female rack..

Basicaly i need advise on wether all this seems right..cuz at firstt feel this doenst feel any different at all but maybe i was expecting too much..

Has he been had? which basically means ive been had too? cuz ive lookes at a few articles and am very surprised that no-one apart from him has found out that if you get a female steering rack whatever that means you dont need to modify anything...

Something just aint right,and the main thing is my wallet's thickness now

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:37 pm

Would this be just the e36 rack (non M3) ?

But the fact that i havent a reciept here or dont have any knowledge of this conversion makes me wonder this isnt even really a 'conversion' and more like just a 'change of rack'

Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:18 pm

Hi, If you go to the top of the page and click on articles and then on technical menu there is info on the conversion.

ED

Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:37 pm

a little of topic i saw your car for the first time on saturday in havant, you wasnt hanging about so it wasn't a good look , but i must say it looks sweet mate

Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:44 pm

Ed, went there but it doenst answer my question..

This is a E36 rack i think, and not an M3 rack that needs all the modification but thats just a hope,i need some peeps who have fit this to shed some light... ive read that the e30 rack is 4 turns but thats incorrect, as far as im aware the e30 rack is 3.5 turns just like this one, so that doenst help me either..

As far as im aware from reading various forums,tech guides the e36 rack is .25 less on the turn than the e30 rack but it moves the wheels quicker if that makes any sence but they all seems to talk about spacers etc being used...we used no mods what so ever anywhere, it literaly used the same fixing points and has plenty of clearence everywhere.. thats what i need to find out wether a normal e36 non m3 rack is this easy to fit?

Nik,thanks m8 yea the car is looking sweet now.. have to get together on some of the upcoming meets

Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:58 pm

JAMZ wrote:
Nik,thanks m8 yea the car is looking sweet now.. have to get together on some of the upcoming meets

yeah would be good, my cars in a million bits at the mo cant say why but ask richard (touringdaddy) and he'll let you know why

, but hoping to get it back together by july.

Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:26 pm

Seems ive got a bit more responce from the wheels from a lil less effort with this Rack, and if im moving and applying more or less full lock the steering doesnt wanna return back to centre again without a lil help from me so somethings changed..

Doesnt help that im none the wiser and Rich who i brought it from dont know either..nice one,so we THINK ive got the E36 rack here that going by 2 things:

1/ the lock to lock turn (3.5)
2/ the fact that no modifications are needed

leads me to believe i have the nonM3 rack here.. sry if im going over but this should help any conversion wannabies here..

What i really dont understand and am hopeing someone here will and can help me is WHY didnt i need any mods at all,not even spacers for the main fixing points... every article ive read so far though there isnt a great deal ALL talk about some mods needed even if they are small.. though this could be a mixture of the E30's being LHD's and them not using NonM3 racks..

so ATM ive got no bloomin idea to what the hell ive got sitting on my car and why it went on soo easy..lol

Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:27 pm

JAMZ wrote:Ed, went there but it doenst answer my question..

This is a E36 rack i think, and not an M3 rack that needs all the modification but thats just a hope,i need some peeps who have fit this to shed some light... ive read that the e30 rack is 4 turns but thats incorrect, as far as im aware the e30 rack is 3.5 turns just like this one, so that doenst help me either..

As far as im aware from reading various forums,tech guides the e36 rack is .25 less on the turn than the e30 rack but it moves the wheels quicker if that makes any sence but they all seems to talk about spacers etc being used...we used no mods what so ever anywhere, it literaly used the same fixing points and has plenty of clearence everywhere.. thats what i need to find out wether a normal e36 non m3 rack is this easy to fit?

Nik,thanks m8 yea the car is looking sweet now.. have to get together on some of the upcoming meets

E30 is 4 turns lock to lock definately

Only M3 rack that is 3.0 turns is the '95 3.0 M3, all other years are same as standard @3.4 turns

Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:30 pm

I was parked next to an e30 1.8 and that was a standard e30 rack and it might not of had the same turn ratio but lock to lock was 3.5 turns and NOT 4..

This is taken from a relaxed lock to relaxed lock not straining the pump though im sure if you went the whole hog it would of been the same 3.5 turns

Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:38 pm

can assure you e30 is 4 turns (i drove mine this afternoon and its definately 2 turns to get back on the drive).. hence why people swap the e36 rack in, be no point otherwise

Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:44 am

Can confirm what Jhonno says - my 318i has 4 turns and the '95 M3 rack in my Sport has 3 turns.

I think its possible to fit the E36 rack with the E30 steering UJ, but its slightly too long so the shaft from the rack could catch on the inside of the UJ - hence the converted UJ.

JAMZ wrote: This rack has picked up exisiting holes with no modification what so ever

Is it through the front holes or back holes (closest to the crossmember)?

The modification needed to bolt the rack to the car is a spacer on each of the mounting points - the E36 rack mountings are shorter than the E30 ones - I think mine needed 13mm spacers. All E36 racks (M3 and non-M3) will need spacers etc.

If you didnt need the spacers to mount the rack then I would of said you dont have an E36 rack.

Another thing you could check (against another E30) is the position of the input shaft and steering UJ. If you have the E36 rack fitted, the 'lump' arrowed in the pic below will be about an inch closer to the engine compared to an E30 rack, and so the steering UJ will also run at a slightly different angle...

Pic borrowed from Ian332i

Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:35 pm

Thks for the replys and the pics,appreciated.

One of the track rod ends needs replacing tomoz as the thread got porked when we were changing it over,bit of crap on the nut done me 20 quids worth of Dmg.

I had the Racks both together and are basically idnetical to each outher bar the track rod ends.. this new rack had E36 ends,i know that from looking at the neigbours E36

The main thing that concerns me here is we used No spacers at all when fixing the rack up,nothing was catching like the sump guard etc and got a nice fit in the Uj.. hes convinced the reason we had no probs with the fitting is that this is a 'Female' Rack .. i didnt even know there was a diffrence TBH but there yer go..

At the monent im still none the wiser..

Are the Track rod ends different on the e30 conpared to the 36??

Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:55 pm

Jmc.. thks bud you seem to know yer stuff here..

the track rod end on this rack are completely different to my old rack and the outher e30 i managed to get a look at..

Is that a give away on the rack type or are they universal?

its got 3.5 turns on it as i say but the fact that i needed no mods what so ever is confusing the hell outa me as to what rack it is..

I can get another e30 at some point to compare like you said but im running out of time here..please tell me the whole arm that comes out of the rack and fixes to yer wheel via the ball joint is the same shape on any e30 rack and thus would be different on the e36 type.

Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:52 pm

Guys please..im pulling my fkin hair out here..

whats looks diferent on these 2 racks.. e30-e36 (non m3)??
can i fit these track rod ends which are surposed to be e36 into another e30 rack? are they universal? is it just these that tell the racks apart?

the 2 racks i have here are the same apart from the track rods/ball joints: different shape and different points of fixing...

that will answer my question and i thankyou all cuz atm im outa of pocket for what could be another e30 rack and i cant find out the info anywhere to make me think outherwise

you say the e30 rack was 4 turns,his e30 rack which is surposed to be stock is 3.5 the same as this 'surposed to be' e36 rack..so thats doesnt help me

you say the e36 rack needs spacers,this didnt..i got no reciept,no nothing just word of mouth from Tourindaddy that this is a e36 rack..

reason for my massive concern here is:

1/ i dont like being ripped off
2/ am i driving my car in a dangerous condition,dont realy want the Uj to catch when im turning sharply under load,not good for me or my family and bi bi e30

the rack was surposed to be e36,that he says was seen by outher zoners too.he was shocked also when he never had to use his 'paid allready' modified steering UJ.. all this just doenst make sence and is wrong to cause so much stress on my tierd brain

just love paying out money for something that is the same as what i has originaly..its great

Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:23 am

an m3 rack sould have a green metal tag on it ..... i just pulled the rack out of an m3 yesterday 3.0 lock to lock. there is a 2.7 turns i got from Zionsville not sure what that comes out of though.... Not sure if this is of any help...as i dont know what the visual differences are to the non m3 e36 rack....maybe a e30 m3 rack as they a 3.5 turns and dose not need the 14mm spacers.... just a shot in the dark

Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:01 am

bottlecapE30 wrote:maybe a e30 m3 rack

Nah, this car is right hand drive.

The E36 track rod ends are not interchangeable IIRC, also they have a tight bend in them just before the ball-joint

Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:28 am

Never heard of this "female" rack or racks of any other gender, and, by the replies so far it doesn't look like any one else has either.
Have you found the Holy Grail of E30 racks?
Is it a power rack?
Is it definitely RH drive?
Is it definitely a BMW part? Any BMW markings on it?
Does it show any signs of modifications ar all?
Does it fit without the modified rack to column steering link with the spacer?

Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:44 pm

Hi brian and thks to you and everyone for yer help,again its appreciated..

I rang German and sweedish today to find out if e36 trackrod ends fit an e30 rack,the answer he gave me was NO, e30 trackrod ends are e30 specific,and these are 100% different to the rack i took off (e30) and the rack in the e30 i looked at and as stated above they DO have the lil kink in em before the ball joint..this is the problem im having here,things just dont add up, i took the wheel lock to lock so it couldnt move anymoreand it was just short of 4 turns.maybe 3.8ish..appologies for my premature statement about it being 3.5.. talk about a nightmare..

So my rack has nearly 4 turns in it lock to lock
It fits in without spacers
The UJ doenst need any modification
But it has e36 trackrod ends

Brainmoore to answer yer questions:

It is a Powerrack
It came from a supplier that supplies all the motor factors round here (these are Tourindaddys words)
Cant see any modifications that look out of the norm,its a nice tidy rack
BMW markings,i didnt look tbh m8,i was helping Rich put it in but didnt take too much notice of the rack..like i said before i laid the racks next too eack outher briefly and they looked the same apart from the track rods..

He also told me that this was packaged e36 when it arrived,and he also mentioned Taylor from this Zone being present..HE DID have the Uj made up too localy but was surprised he didnt need it and also surprised that apart from cutting a small piece of the sump guard it fit with no modifications..thats where the 'Female statement' came from

Im not slating Rich here, hes a bit more than someone who just works on my car so as far as i know hes not BS'n me...he was surprised when he fit it but he was also saying it had 3.5 turns in his Tourer..the only difference he had on his to mine now is that we used the outher 2 fixing points and DID NOT need to cut away my sump guard..it was literally a swap nothing more..

Ive paid for what is surposed to be an e36 rack and have sold my old rack more or less..thats the dilema here,were replaing the drivers side track rod as it sheared when fitting it so i havet been able to drive it properly to get a feel..i.e quicker steering etc..

I just dont get how this so called e36 rack went on with no mods to the car,rack or UJ and i just drove it away and its only me thats had this luck..

I just think the whole thing stinks or like brianmoore said ive truly found a one of rack lol

Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:53 pm

JAMZ wrote:I rang German and sweedish today to find out if e36 trackrod ends fit an e30 rack,the answer he gave me was NO.

When doing the E36 rack conversion, you need to change the E36 rod ends for the E30 rod ends - the E30 ones screw straight into the E36 rack arms.
The E36 rod ends will also screw into an E30 rack without problems.

i took the wheel lock to lock so it couldnt move anymoreand it was just short of 4 turns.maybe 3.8ish.
So my rack has nearly 4 turns in it lock to lock
It fits in without spacers
The UJ doenst need any modification
But it has e36 trackrod ends.

Thats sounds like an E30 rack to me, Im not sure about the E36 rod ends though.

The E30 rod end does have a 'kink' before the ball joint, but the E36 rods have a much more distinct kink compared to the E30 rods.

Heres an E36 rod end...

I cant get a pic of my E30 rod ends - they are on the car, but that should give you something to compare with.

Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:19 pm

The E36 rack requires spacers to properly mount it on the E30 chassis, therefore it follows that a rack that fits perfectly into an E30 chassis without spacers will not fit an E36.

Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:21 pm

Just nicked this pic from H35 IAN.
It shows that the E30 track rod ends screw 'IN'
Compared to the E36 track rod ends (above) that screw 'ON'

Theyre not interchangeable as you can see which is why I have left the E36 track rod ends on mine.

But I thought id read somewhere that you need to change them, tried it, failed, so left them on and all seems fine

Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:28 pm

Cheers James

i just looked at my e30 rack downstairs awaiting pick up as its sold,it has the kink in it but if i used the same profile as your picture it would look straight,you have to turn it so it forms the shape of a 'pipe' to see the kink if that makes any sence.

As for the e36 (?) thats on the car,the track rod ends look like that one in your picture,and they too have the big fixing nut attached to the arm..whereas the e30 trackrod ends have a thread that slides inside a u-clip,its that that is tightened to hold the arm in.. so thats basicaly how they differ...

So are you saying that trackrod end in your picture could be made to fit an e30 rack with that same fixing point.?

When we fitted this rack on and had both e30's parked together we put both on full lock and Rich said he was 90% sure that the e36 (?) rack on my car was making the wheels have a wider arch..sry for the terminology,i.e could see more of my inner wheel than his..both cars had 17' pina's but this could be another figment of 'his' imagination

Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:31 pm

I believe the E30 and E36 track rods can been interchanged provided it is done using both inner and outer parts together, i.e. you should be able to put E36 inner+outer track rods onto an E30 rack.

So having E36 style track rods does not mean you have an E36 rack. As I stated above, if the rack you have fits perfectly with no modifications then it cannot be used on an E36.

Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:36 pm

E30 track rods fit an E36 rack, complete with E30 rod ends.
This rack is beginning to look like one made from the left over bits when you do an E36 rack conversion!

Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:38 pm

DanThe wrote:Just nicked this pic from H35 IAN.
It shows that the E30 track rod ends screw 'IN'
Compared to the E36 track rod ends (above) that screw 'ON'

Theyre not interchangeable as you can see which is why I have left the E36 track rod ends on mine.

But I thought id read somewhere that you need to change them, tried it, failed, so left them on and all seems fine

Sry,you got your post in before me..takes me ages to post replys now on this new forum.. so annoying..

anyway..DanThe, that picture you posted there is basiclay what i tried to describe in my previous post,that is exactly the setup i have on my old e30 rack..however its the trackrod ends in Jmc's picture that i have on the e36(?) rack...german and sweedish said No they're not interchageable which gave me a glimmer of hope thinking i have indeed bought a e36 rack..but as some off you have mentioned it is possible to swap and change which yet AGAIN throws a spanner in the works..this is too much now..heads will roll and il rip the fooker back off at this rate

Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:41 pm

Brianmoooore wrote:E30 track rods fit an E36 rack, complete with E30 rod ends.
This rack is beginning to look like one made from the left over bits when you do an E36 rack conversion!

Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:53 pm

K,that settles it then and i thankyou all for the info...right from the start when i was turning the steering wheel to bleed the rack i knew this was an e30 rack just from the number of silly turns i was doing from lock to lock but as you can see im a minor when it comes to mechanics,hes a Pro as far as im concerend as im sure outher here would speak for him, so hes either pissing me up the wall or he really doenst know anything about a simple steering rack but on the outher hand could do an engine translplant

Moneys been paid
my old rack is Sold
Rich is getting a phone call

Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:34 pm

TheDutch wrote:I believe the E30 and E36 track rods can been interchanged provided it is done using both inner and outer parts together, i.e. you should be able to put E36 inner+outer track rods onto an E30 rack.

Yeah sorry, thats what I should of said

Its the complete track rod that needs changing, from the big nut under the rubber boot to the ball joint, not just the rod ends - my fault, Ive only had 3 hrs sleep today after finishing work this morning

GSF are right in that the rod ends are not interchangeable, but the complete track rods are.

As Brian has said, its seems the rack in question has been made from left over bits, and those bits seem to be an E30 rack wth E36 track rods and that does not make it an E36 rack conversion.