Calling Bilstein shock experts!

[Simon13]

Yesterday i was swopping springs around on the alpina and the sport.

Both of these cars have the same shocks or so i thought.......



bottom one is off my old sport

top is off the alpina.

the sport ones i know are inverted because i bought them! I don't have the shock removing key to take them out, but the ones off the alpina are like scaffold tubes! So waht are they??

Pina on cupkit springs now too

[M5pilot]

Your sport has got the inverted types but they are the 45mm shocks which comes with a collar that allows them to fit into a 51mm strut.

The Alpina has the 51mm insert and hence why it looks like a scaffolding tube.

Everytime I've been to ECP to buy Bilstein inverted shocks Ive been given the 45mm ones. However after doing some research i found the the 51mm ones.

I've used the 51mm Sport shocks which are almost the same as your Alpina ones in 2 of my cars and they are superb.

I had this discussion with Demlot a while back and he reckoned the 51mm bodied ones were too long but they worked perfectly in my old Alpina.

[Simon13]

they look about an inch longer than the ones from ECP

now the cupkit springs are on with these fat boys i can say the ride is alot better than it was on my sport. They don't look very old and neither do the rears which is a good bonus!

[Demlotcrew]

Personally i would have gone with the correct dampers! Simon why do you think i ordered the Shorter 'Thinner' dampers in the first place?

The thicker and thinner tube dampers are for different types of springs, the longer ones without up rated ARBS will provide more body roll as they have more 'give' you will then have longer suspension travel and for a car thats lowered its not a good idea!

In terms of their ability to 'dampen' they are identical in everyway, its just that the thicker ones are called HD (Heavy duty for cars with a OE height springs) and the Thinner shorter dampers are for things like Coilovers and lowering springs on standard struts.

Im about to change mines over from the longer thicker inserts to the shorter thinner units as i think they will suit my purpose more. (just need to buy the collar nuts (£20 each from BMW)

HTH

Andrew

[Karan]

i have the big ones on my hartge h36 suspension

[Demlotcrew]

I got a hold of some of these,



So as soon as i get the collar nut for the dampers and the Eccentric top mounts im fitting this little lot.

I have also fitted the Universal joint which connects the steering column to the rack from a M3 which has the solid guibo and a new sleeve and i must say its made quite a noticeable improvement.

Karan you need to get that Alu one i was showing you when i was round last for the h Monster.

Andrew

[M5pilot]

I've fitted the 51mm Sports to my own Alpina and a few customers cars now and there has been no evidence of increased body roll. With lowered 35mm h&R springs the combination was excellent if a little hard.

I would no way put the 45mm inserts into a 51mm leg.

Simon's experience with Cup Kit Springs on the fat boy bilstiens shows that there are perfect for the job.

[Demlotcrew]

So sal tell me this, why is it that all the M3s and early sports came with the thinner 45mm inserts? Why is it that the Cup kit comes with shorter Boge dampers? and why is it that all the AC coilovers ive seen go on ebay come with the thinner/shorter 45mm inserts?

Im fitting them to my car as i know for a fact they will be better suited to a shorter spring.

Andrew

[Simon13]

if i had the collar nut i would of changed them no?

so are the rears the same height/ thickness piston or is there a HD and a normal variant.

I know alpina springs were around 35mm drop, so obviously work with the HD's.

so 60/40 is too much, i can't say i've noticed increased roll as such, BUT as i can't go full chat until i get a new oil pump i can't make a fair accessment yet of whether there is a difference. To be fair a trackday would show up any shortcomings in either setup fairly quickly

[Demlotcrew]

Simon i would have just changed the whole strut assembly with the springs and top mounts attached.

One way to understand what im saying is to jack up the front of the sport and see how much the suspension has to travel compared to the Alpina and you will see quite a large gap in the wheel arch.

Andrew

[M5pilot]

I have an early 325i Sport here - it has 51mm struts.

Im going by experience of fitting the 51mm ones to cars and there is no excess bodyroll or rebound. Thats my point.

The M3 Bilstien Sports have Part no P36-0335 - these are 51mm inserts.
You can also use P36-0136.

Same part numbers for 325i's aswell ranging from 1986 onwards. All 51mm.

As for AC Schnitzer stuff - had it on my first M3 - 51mm struts yet again.

[Demlotcrew]

I must be talking shit then Sal,

But please do this for me, order a 51mm collar nut from BMW and then tell me if it fits the thicker/longer insert.

Andrew

[M5pilot]

The Bilsteins come with new collars.

Why do you need to go to BMW to get new ones??

I will re iterate the point to you again - there is no excess body roll with the larger inserts and no extra rebound.

Early 325i's come with 51mm struts. Come over and take a look!

And also - when i took out the inserts from my Alpina, they were Bilstein and had Alpina imprinted on them. They were the exact same height as the P36 - 0136's (51mm inserts) I replaced them with.

[Demlotcrew]

The M3 Bilstien Sports have Part no P36-0335 - these are 51mm inserts.

Just been on the Bilstein website and that part number you have given in your last post brings up the shorter thinner damper.

So what do you say to that mr Sal?

BMW 325i SPORT F

Application: Aftermarket

Vehicle: Car
Manufacturer: BILSTEIN
New part#: F4-P36-0335-H0

List Price: $ 187.00

BMW 325I HD FRONT

Application: Aftermarket

Vehicle: Car
Manufacturer: BILSTEIN
New part#: F4-P36-0136-H0

List Price: $ 187.00

Andrew

[Simon13]

that is true i've just been up the exhaust place and fitted the standard system on to the sport, and the quicksilver on to the alpina and the scorpion is now in the garage.

u could see this when they were both on the ramps

The ride height on the pina looks spot on now i think, no rubbing on the back with 4 peeps in the car last nite and only minor scraping on the speed humps



U will have to come out at Ace and see what the ride is like, thats if we are still friends

[M5pilot]

Mr Demlot,

Calm down.

I have the Bilstein catalogue.

It says:

P36 - 0136 and 0335 are for cars with "sports suspension" - 51mm
P30 - 0138 - cars with M technics - 45mm

Now you can make what ever you want of the above info. Is mtecniks better than sports suspension?? Who knows. What is sports suspension?

Now, after speaking to the Sole importer of Bilstein he also agrees that the P36 - 0136 and 0335 are the correct shocks for cars with 51mm struts.

Thats what I say Mr Demlot.

I will yet again re iterate - and mine and other peoples experience counts - the 51mm p36-0136's (51mm) DO NOT CAUSE EXCESS ROLL AND REBOUND.

Thats all I have to say on the matter.

Why did Alpina not fit the 45mm struts??

[Demlotcrew]

I will re iterate the point to you again - there is no excess body roll with the larger inserts and no extra rebound.

Okay sal look what ever right! Im not interested you dont listen to no one and thats fine. You fit what ever you want to your friends cars (because the Alpina is not yours) and i will fit what ever i want to mines.

Problem solved.

Andrew

[Demlotcrew]

OH MY GOD

Why dont you understand?

Look will a picture help because i dont know if you can read.



I know this post is a little harsh but its got to be said!

Simon did you keep any of the boxes from the dampers?

Andrew

[Simon13]

fraid not dude i think they were thrown away when i moved out

[tim_s]

bit off topic (or in a last-ditch attempt towards a constructive, pat-each-other-on-the-back type of thread, depending on how you view it i guess)

I have also fitted the Universal joint which connects the steering column to the rack from a M3 which has the solid guibo and a new sleeve and i must say its made quite a noticeable improvement.

damn! wish i knew about that when i replaced mine, i hate the standard design. what a load of junk. you any pics etc of it all? is this the only upragde option? cost? had a bit of play in my steering when i swapped mine over so had no time to investigate alternatives.

as for the bilstein issue, i have no opinion on the matter, i like konis anyway
lets start a koni vs bilstein argument, cos that would be new.

[Simon13]

I can't tim i've never had konis!

[Demlotcrew]

Well tim you wont like what i have to say,

The stock E30 RHD guibo can be bought from BMW as a repair kit (as most by now are worn really badly (Ask mie gangsta Dibs) But the RHD M3 one cannot be bought separately from the rest of the UJ's. So what i did was get a the whole unit which costs £130 from the dealers. I then took the rubber guibo out and fitted it to the UJ's on the E30 RHD one which was fitted to my car. I dont have any pic of the fitting but i will take a pic of it fitted to the car.



Andrew

[tim_s]

wow! that's dedicated, very nice andrew! that car of yours must be incredible.
i wonder if there are any aftermarket toughened ones, would have thought people tracking them etc would want a better item...

[Demlotcrew]

i wonder if there are any aftermarket toughened ones, would have thought people tracking them etc would want a better item...

There are tim, they look like this;



Andrew

[M5pilot]

OH MY GOD

Why dont you understand?

Look will a picture help because i dont know if you can read.



I know this post is a little harsh but its got to be said!

Simon did you keep any of the boxes from the dampers?

Andrew

At least you admit your overly harsh.

Your knowledge is very sketchy, thats all I can say. Go read your books.

You know where I am, there is a pre facelift 325i Sport here and an M3 - I'll show you both have 51mm struts not 45mmmm

Anyway, as you say, you do your thing and I'll do mine. I know how your car handles with those shocks and my old Touring would have taken you on any bend.

[Andy335Touring]

This is getting fucking boring now, if you want to compair dick sizes do it face to face.

[M5pilot]

I'm the one who thinks he knows everything so I'll just back down.

[Demlotcrew]

[quote="M5pilot] I know how your car handles with those shocks and my old Touring would have taken you on any bend.[/quote]

Okay sal lets put your money where your mouth is, any track and i want to see how your touring will take my car on any bend!

And sal you back down because you know shit all about cars!

Andrew

[Simon13]

could of been a good thread! with some good info somewhere in it

[Demlotcrew]

As you wish simon.

Andrew