wanted: low end torque

[dark_sounds]

ah man i rarely ever get to have fun from my car because i dont wanna thrash the tits of it by taking it above 3000rpm...

i need lower end torque to put a smile on my face

what ways can i modify a 318is to give more low end torque, and possibly keep the high end stuff....?? or even if thats sacrificed thats fine by me,,,

[cliffybabe]

this aint cos of the trip to guilford is it?? lol

[dark_sounds]

lol lol lol!!! no why would you say such a silly comment

come on mine did put up quite a fight when it needed... if you ever overtook me,,, its cos i let you

just gimme torque!!!!

[dazleeds]

this aint cos of the trip to guilford is it?? lol

Dark mate

did you get ur assssssssssss kicked
on the way to guidford?

[dark_sounds]

no doubt be silly....lol 325 vs 318is.... hmmm dont think it was much of a kicking ;)

cliffy hope ur not setting a challange,, i do believe i might have to woop ur ass! ur heavier, convertable 325 vs my nimble 318is,,, give me some bends!

[Widge]

Different engine is the only way. If you try to start tuning the is engine for torque youll loose loads of power and totally upset the balance.

[Ziggy]

The iS lump is all about revs - 3000rpm is nowhere near thrashing it!

[kam-325i]

Wrong engine really for low down grunt.......you'll need more pistons.

16V engines have all thier power above 3000-4000 Rpm, they are designed to rev more.

Only way really is to use some sort of FI, or re-design the engine/ECU to shift the power curve down.

[Cyruz]

Use heavier right foot , old cars are going to break regardless, may as well have fun doing it, I keep mine in the high revs for minutes at a time, thats about 5500rpm plus, but then I drift mine at it's only worth Ԛ£500

[Gouki]

onyl way is drop an diff engine in, 325i engine, or do the extreme and get a 3.5 engine in for the ulitimate street weapon of choice

[Motorhole]

I spent 7 x 20min sessions at Cadwell park thrashing the tits off a 320i. During a session it never dropped below about 4800rpm, and I took it just below the limiter for every upchange and downchange. It never missed a beat. It got similar treatment at the 'ring over 4 days and it never missed a beat...don't be so scared!!

[Widge]

I assume you mean a 320is, not much point thrashing a 320i like that!!

[Adammcf]

I have always revved all my cars to just before the limiter and none of them have had any problems with it. Dont be a fanny. Drive it like it should be!

[tim_s]

Yeah what they said. It's a 1.8 16v, must be revved to get any performance out of it. you ever wondered why you get such good fuel consumption?
btw there really shouldn't be much in it between a good is and a 325i cab, they're a good few hundred kgs heavier.
used to thrash around chasing my mates 2dr 325i, was only at illegal speeds that the 325i was faster, esp after the is had run out of revs in 4th, changing into 5th meant bye bye 325i and not in the good way.

if you want lots more torque change engine. if you want some more torque and still pretty good fuel economy, put a 1.9/2/2.1 engine in yours, mb even up the CR too. you can also tweak your cam timing to give better torque (at the expense of high rpm action), and a chip helps the torque too. removing the viscous fan does no harm either, i know most people say it makes no odds, but when you have a small engine like ours every little helps, and i noticed it picked up a bit better at really low rpms without the fan coupling. stripping out excess weight will help too, i hope you haven't got mega heavy stereo in there fella!

[Morat]

really can't see much point in modding for torque when an engine swap is available. The classic route to more torque is an overbore, but with 6 pot 2.5's available - why bother?

okok, you want more torque but no more weight. Well.. you could lose the weight elsewhere (rear seats? do you need em?) but if you want torque, you need capacity. There ain't no substitute... etc etc.

[Widge]

but if you want torque, you need capacity. There ain't no substitute... etc etc.

Or Boost boost boost people - but then again what's the point if the 2.5 swap is so easy and avalible.

[Morat]

but if you want torque, you need capacity. There ain't no substitute... etc etc.

Or Boost boost boost people - but then again what's the point if the 2.5 swap is so easy and avalible.

Agreed (and I so nearly said it!) but he'd still have to rev for boost. Infact I'd put money on him revving it a LOT more with a turbo/super - I know I would

[Widge]

Exactly so tune it for more POWER and rev it's tits off, or spend the money on an engine swap.


Or be really original for this forum.... and keep the original engine!!!!!

(only kidding)

[Morat]

hahahaha Well said.

If I had the money I'd be begging a certain someone for his second attempt at a V12 conversion.. and then thinking about chipping it and putting on a supercharger per bank.

And then I'd have it goldplated and have Jessica Rabitt wax it naked and. and..

yeah, a 325 conversion is probably the best option ;)

[Widge]

Well said....Mmmmmm Jessica........................



I'd have thought a throttle bodied chipped and cammed and balanced V12 would be enough, all that ghastly forced induction stuff is unnessicary if you can affor a HUGE enging and the equally HUGE fuel bill.


Isn't gold plating as standard on a Glenn conversion???

[tim_s]

why change his late 80s designed, timing chain driven, 4v per cyl, hyd lifter, compact 4 with a great forged crank and rods (ever compared m20 rods to m42!? no contest), oil squirters, adjustable cam gears, a nice tubular exh manifold yadda yadda with plenty of potential, for a mid 70s belt-driven 2v engine with solid lifters and a naff cast manifold? the m42 has 10 year's technology on an m20.
a nice gently tweaked m42 like demlot's old one, or even my current one, is as fast, mb even faster than a stock 325i, wll do much better on fuel and is debatably more reliable. for less than the money demlot could have squandered on putting in an m20 into his, he made a 325i beater that was also lighter, better handling and better on fuel.

makes perfect sense mod his, especially when there's so much more power easily unleashed on the m42.
A turbo IS or a SC'd IS would be a good option, as would my route of large capacity high compression engine and throttle bodies.
don't get me wrong, an m20's a cool engine - in a 325i. It has no place in a 318is. anyone who swaps one in to an IS should be shot. end of. m5x on the other hand is a different proposition, esp an m52.

[Morat]

why change his late 80s designed, timing chain driven, 4v per cyl, hyd lifter, compact 4 with a great forged crank and rods (ever compared m20 rods to m42!? no contest), oil squirters, adjustable cam gears, a nice tubular exh manifold yadda yadda with plenty of potential, for a mid 70s belt-driven 2v engine with solid lifters and a naff cast manifold? the m42 has 10 year's technology on an m20.
a nice gently tweaked m42 like demlot's old one, or even my current one, is as fast, mb even faster than a stock 325i, wll do much better on fuel and is debatably more reliable. for less than the money demlot could have squandered on putting in an m20 into his, he made a 325i beater that was also lighter, better handling and better on fuel.

makes perfect sense mod his, especially when there's so much more power easily unleashed on the m42.
A turbo IS or a SC'd IS would be a good option, as would my route of large capacity high compression engine and throttle bodies.
don't get me wrong, an m20's a cool engine - in a 325i. It has no place in a 318is. anyone who swaps one in to an IS should be shot. end of. m5x on the other hand is a different proposition, esp an m52.

because he wants a motor that develops good torque at low revs, and a larger displacement and 2V/cylinder are exactly what you need for that. I'm not arguing that the 318iS can be made to go faster, just that you'll have to rev its nuts off.
I think he just bought the wrong model...

[tim_s]

true!

[Motorhole]

I assume you mean a 320is, not much point thrashing a 320i like that!!

I wish I had meant a 320is! Thrashing a 320i like that was the only way to get anywhere near milkfloat levels of speed and acceleration

[tonyppe]

depepnds how far you really want to go. some people look at their 1.8 16v and just want to throw the piggy bank at it.
if you wanted, you could go all out on the head.
get it max ported, and matched to the inlet manifold and exhaust ports.

the easier the air gets in the more power it will have, and the curve will start a bit lower down.
over boring the pistons will help. but if ur taking the engine out, u may as well do bearings, get the rods, crank, and flywheel lightend and balanced (with a new clutch)
high compression pistons will be a big benefit!

for little over Ԛ£3k you can get a indy racing leage V8 in kit form, that produces 650Hp at 10,500rpm!!??!!
shame it dont fit straight in the e30 or i would build one tomorrow.

[Simon13]

318iS has very good low down torque in standard from, look at modern day 1.8 16v's and they won't have anymore, even bmw's later efforts. it's the same for hp. There are not alot of modern 18's that pull out the same figures bar some honda engines of recent years

One of bmw's finest engine guys made this engine, shame he killed himself and bmw's 4 pots were never the same after

[Kamaloff]

I can't believe no-one mentioned a HIGHER-GEARED DIFF yet! Engine stays intact, and the torque piles up sooner!

You'll loose highway cruise-ability though.

Just a thought.

[SwirlyE30]

Drop a 2.5 engine in for more torque. The IS engine is nice n all, but it sucks ass at anything low end. If you want a cheap option at more power then go for somthing else. You could spend a couple of grand SC'ing your engine, which would be sweet.

But why bother when you can buy a good 2.5 lump for a couple of hundred quid, and make a monster 2.7 for easily less than what youd pay for the same power to be had in an IS engine.


Or say sod it, and stick a V8 in lol.Who wants revs when youve got bags of torque!

[Lordschleife]

No for fecks sake don't drop a 2.5 lump in it, that'd be one less iS on the road, and too many have died recently as it is
Much better to sell it and buy a 325i

It does sound like you want a 325i, they have plenty of low down torque.
Have to say though don't worry about thrashing the m42, it doesnt even start to pull till 4000rpm, they're supposed to be revved!
And just cruising at 90 on the motorway you'll be sat at 4k in 5th gear anyway

I do try to keep it under 3k for the 1st 10 mins of driving or so though till its warmed up.
Then its redline all the time.

[Lordschleife]

318iS has very good low down torque in standard from, look at modern day 1.8 16v's and they won't have anymore, even bmw's later efforts. it's the same for hp. There are not alot of modern 18's that pull out the same figures bar some honda engines of recent years

One of bmw's finest engine guys made this engine, shame he killed himself and bmw's 4 pots were never the same after

I dunno I think Honda were ahead with their 4pots back then, my '89 crx was 130bhp from a 1.6, dunno what the torque was, but it pulled a lot better than an iS from low down (probably partly due to less weight though) and the later 1.6 vtecs from around '91 had 160bhp

The M42 and S14 were great engines though

[Lordschleife]

for little over Ԛ£3k you can get a indy racing leage V8 in kit form, that produces 650Hp at 10,500rpm!!??!!
shame it dont fit straight in the e30 or i would build one tomorrow.

Tell me more...
Though I dont really want to be associated with those crapwagons
Or fancy the prospects of regular rebuilds!

[Simon13]

tim as great as the M42 is they just can't take the brutal abuse u can give an M20 rehardless of engine specs

[SwirlyE30]

Lordschleife - Yeh fairplay mate, i didnt nessicerly mean trash a good IS, but the 2.5 engine is what it sounds like hes after.

At the end of the day.Although i love the M42 engine.Its not as practical as a more torque related engine. Like everyone says, they dont really come alive until their at like 3.5/4k, and even then its nothing amazing.I know its not meant to be the quickest thing in the world. But lets face it guys, its a slow car in todays world.

IF its driven correctly (like a lot of other high revving cars need to be) then it can be suprising,but how often do you get to take it onto open country roads, or a track. Somthing like a nice 2.7, you can actually floor it crusing around town and still get a bit of a kick.

Everyone goes on about the IS lump as if its some marvel, but lets face it, a 325 sport is hardly 'less revvy than an IS. The redlines are hardly any differnt. I dont care if theres a couple of hundred rpm in it, you dont get the maximum power from a car keeping it bouncing off the limit anyways, so those extra few hundred rpm arnt really that usefull in most circumstances.



Dude, if you want more power, get a 2.5, 2.7, 3.0 etc But the IS is a money pit if you want cheap, everyday useable power across the rev range, it just isnt the car for it.End off

[Lordschleife]

Agree with most of the above post
Me I dont want to thrash around town, I try to stick to the limits in built up areas
However as soon as I'm out on the open road where I want to drive quick it works great, and having owned both, there isnt much in it to a 325i with the lower weight and shorter gearing of the iS

Also I find the m20s power delivery a bit boring, its fairly flat, I'm used to engines that come alive when you reach high rpm, and you hit a lovely powerband

You're right about the rpm though, wish it revved higher, though I think there were motorsport chips that upped it over 7k?

[Adammcf]

Not taking anything away from the 318is engine but the Honda B16 engine actually came out in 89 I think in the Civic and the CRX in 90 as I had one.
It had 150bhp back then and then went up to 157 in the next shape Civic.
It was an amazing engine.