M3 too slow

[m3ben05]

I agree, its getting off topic, the guys just stating an opinion. I disagree but thats life, it would be boring if we all thought the same.

Another point to consider, if speed was the major issue, why are e36 M3's worth so much less than e30's even though they have a lot more power. Anyone who wants a streight line car should get one of those no doubt.

[pacerpete]

I've got a fireblade i paid Ԛ£1400 for, it will rip a new arsehole into any piece of french frag(or M3 for that matter ) that any one cares to mention,what does that prove , nothing, exactly.
316i dude, not all M3s are created equal ,you probably drove a dog. Alas most M3s are now tired old cars ,a NICE one is still a very special car and for the price very few cars are as competent and as pleasing to own and use. The same cannot be said about any nasty french landfill.
I quite fancy one of the midengined V6 clio jobbies though,at least the correct wheels are driven !

[Demlotcrew]

Cant be arsed

Andrew

[evostormm]

this is getting silly now, i was comparing 2 cars of equalish power, not a super car like a tvr irrelevent post evostormm

Not really irrelevant when, if you're looking for accelerative performance, you can buy something like a TVR 450 SE for less than a Clio Cup. Very impressive straight line performance; a bit more of a challenge/threat through the bends though.

[eun]

obviously an old bm is gna be cheaper than a brand new performance car, and there is no way a standard m3 would beat a standard clio cup. great brakes are pointless when the car is so slow.

tec 2 325is is way cooler for looks than m3 any day. subtle looks beats ott styling

your wierd/strange/retarded/deprived/angry cos you have no girlfriend/angry at bmw and renault for making cars that are too expensive for your wallet.......the list goes on

why come on to an e30 forum and diss the (in certain ways) king of the e30's? why would you do that....with a name like 316idude

what would get more looks? id for sure rather say to my GIRLFRIEND (cough cough) i drive a bmw then i drive a little french thing called renault.
what friggin girls like to see there dream man come and pick them up in a hatchback?

as so many people have said its 20 years old. 325's can now be done by 1.8 teggy type r's so that tells you how cars have evolved.

and the price you would pay for a clio cup you could buy an m3 and spend the rest on engine mods and your little french froggy hatch would be in the rear view mirror for a few seconds before disappearing.

buy a clio cup and join there forum you might find a nice play mate on there with similar views as you

[OllieB]

I don't see why he is getting so much stick, he was probably expecting huge things from the car unreasonably (Eg E46 CSL straight line speed etc) and he probably drove a dog anyway. Also, in my opinion it would take longer than a day to get comfortable with the dynamics of a car like an E30 M3 and explore its capabilities.

Richy Touring, you take the whole E30 thing a bit too seriously I reckon as well. Its alright to appreciate the good side of E30's and that, but you are a bit like a die hard football fan who would batter someone for saying a bad word about your team. Its only a fucking car and he is entitled to his opinion and to make a judgement.....

[Richy325iTouring]

Once again ill say agen i was merely saying that the m3 was disappointing from a days worth of driving, and also the clio is more fun to drive. i didnt think that some of you would take so much offence but surely it says something that some of you agree with me!

and as for mr astra van, its a debait not a slaging match you wanker.

now now
with a coment like that id defenatly say your from chav club

no need for that
if its a debate then im entitled to my opinion so fuck off with you chav clio and we can all get on with whats more important
and thats e30s
bye twat

[kam-325i]

this is getting silly now, i was comparing 2 cars of equalish power

But there is nearly 20 years between them. Things have moved along since then, the bar has risen. When the M3 came out, that set the standard, and it has been raised ever since by the next best thing....

The E30 M3 was not designed with one thing in mind, it came as a package, good speed with great handling.....15-20 years later, expectations have changed, its mainly about straight line speed nowaydays, thats way there are so many high power front wheel drive cars about, great straight line speed, but 99% of them cant carry the speed into a corner without masses of understeer.....Take the new Vauxhall Astra VXR 220, great in a staright line, but crap in the corners, you cant get the power down without masses of understeer or torque steer.

You need to compare cars like for like, power, age, price and so on, not just one thing. Yes the clio cup is a nice car to drive, i have driven one for about 2 weeks, great fun.

But if i had Ԛ£7000-8000 to spend...it would be the M3 all day long.....

[Demlotcrew]

[Richy325iTouring]

[quote="kam-325iTake the new Vauxhall Astra VXR 220, great in a staright line, but crap in the corners, you cant get the power down without masses of understeer or torque steer.

[/quote]

Thats one car that def needs 4 wheel drive

[M5pilot]

Sit in a good E30 M3 - 215 bhp version maybe which is still putting down cose to stock figures and it will bring a smile to your face.

M3's are quick but they dont feel quick because of the linear power delivery and lack of torque.

A less powerful M20 will "feel" fatser because its got more torque.

Standard 195 bhp M3's are not quick - is this what you sat in?

[sac1974]

I own a 89 E30 M3 in Mint Condition and my previous car was a clio cup, my car has 208bhp and is probably equal to my old clio, handling wise the clio is superb but it does not give you the feedback like a e30 m3 does, as a matter of fact not many cars make you feel as special as driving an e30 m3, the only other car i can compare is a porsche 968 club sport.

I have owned 4 renault sports including two 182's and there is no comparison whats so ever with an e30 m3.

Thats my opinion!

[eun]

I own a 89 E30 M3 in Mint Condition and my previous car was a clio cup, my car has 208bhp and is probably equal to my old clio, handling wise the clio is superb but it does not give you the feedback like a e30 m3 does, as a matter of fact not many cars make you feel as special as driving an e30 m3, the only other car i can compare is a porsche 968 club sport.

I have owned 4 renault sports including two 182's and there is no comparison whats so ever with an e30 m3.

Thats my opinion!

good first post

welcome mate

[Morat]

E30s are about enjoyment. They have an extremely good fun:cash ratio and are the easiest way into rear wheel drive (proper) driving. It is no shock that after 20 years there are faster cars on the market, but I defy you to pick up a car for Ԛ£1000 that gives the driver such input, feedback and fun.

[Karan]

k did u go round a few twisties in it?

they weren't massively quick in a straight line from new, it was the rest of the package that made it what it was.

One of the most involving drives there are even now. Only abs and p/s to help

Don't race the new hot hatches for this reason. I wonder if the 2.7 could out drag a clio cup. It should see off a E36 328i, same power but lighter

GUG saw off clio cups inc the twisties

[DieselMeister]

k did u go round a few twisties in it?

they weren't massively quick in a straight line from new, it was the rest of the package that made it what it was.

One of the most involving drives there are even now. Only abs and p/s to help

Don't race the new hot hatches for this reason. I wonder if the 2.7 could out drag a clio cup. It should see off a E36 328i, same power but lighter

GUG saw off clio cups inc the twisties

Three cheers for the GUG!

Seriously, I have a lot of time for the Clio in all of its 2.0litre guises. The latest version is supposedly up there in pantheon of all-time great drivers cars. I'd love to try one.

However, I doubt you can really compare such different cars and say categorically which is best. In this case, E30 is incomparable as they no longer make it (ok, the clio is soon out of production too); then you have the raciing heritage (ok, the clio has done a few laps too...) and the fact that each car has a steering wheel... Ok, there are some similarities then

Either way, good and effective as the Clio may be, most car enthusiasts born more than 5 mins ago will agree thath E30 is a pretty special car.

[Morat]

Clio may be regarded as a great drivers car but thats surely got to be qualified with "Great FWD drivers car". I also have a Fiat Coupe Turbo and its way faster in a straight line but the Touring is far more fun round corners. I would say the coupe corners harder, but FWD is never as involving or just.. well.. fun!

[hammoj28]

To be quite honest theres no way you can compare the two! An equal comparison would be something like comparing:

The clio cup with an e46 m3 and the e30 m3 with a 205gti or something?

Am I right?

[sac1974]

The clio was designed to carry 4 people from A to B, then renaultsport took this clio and suped it up very well, very well indeed.

The E30 M3 was designed as a race car adapted to be used as a road car, the problem is that alot of peoples experiences in E30 M3's are in high mileage cars who might not have a complete service history with the suspension in need of a overhaul etc.

A well sorted standard M3 with reletivley low miles, FSH, will handle as good if not better then any similair modern car. Remember that if the E30 M3 was sold now it would cost in the region of Ԛ£40000.00!!!!!

Also the engine if again on low mileage which has been well maintained will pull like a train in all 5 gears, unlike modern cars where 5th or 6th gear are cruising gears. The E30 M3 5th gears ratios mean it it still pulls very hard in top gear.

As for the 5th gear programme, that was complete shit! the E30 M3 they tested had 170000miles on it and it was a D reg and the lancia was not even a evo.

So basically what i am trying to say it that the E30 M3 is the dogs bollocks if in good working order and a bit of an old dog if not looked after

Rant Over, cheers for reading

[dark_sounds]

i juts caught up spent some good time reading... hes just sharing his opinion,, but my opinion is this:::

when i saw my first e30 looking cool as fuck with a tech 2 kit etc,,, i fell in love.... for the past hmm almost 7 years ive been wanting a tech 2'ed e30,,,

no one looks at a clio and dreams oh i so want a clio!

e30 are style icons, just as the mk2 golf.... these cars gain value year in year out... they are classic cars.... (or soon to be)

the e30 is a saloon,,, which is legues ahead of hatchbacks in terms of "street cred" lol

the e30 used to be, and still is,,, a pimpin car,, as eun said,,, the clio at the end of the day is a young boys hatchback and if your young enough,,,, then it shows ur a mumys boy as no doubt they paid for it,, and ur insurance,,, and petrol if you live in bromley...

e30's, mk2 golfs, these are real mens cars. they tough, hard wearing... real test of driver skill cars...

and one final point.... id love to see these clios in 20 years time,, and race them against a 320! even the 320 would have them in 20 years! by this time the 320 is 35 years old... but will still run as good as now if looked after,,, the clio, no matter how much u look after it,, will not last....




okok one final point..... two cars hit a brick wall at 60... one of the drivers come out and says oh shit my car.... the other says " ......." nothing... you can guess which one was the clio driver and which one was the e30 driver


"alright mate. what car do you drive" .... "i drive a clio cup BRUV"
"alright mate, what car do you drive" ....."bmw M3"

[danny_j]

This is a good post

some good points raised by 316idude.

Each to there own, but an E30 M3 is an aboulste gem of a car! No Doubt! and the Clio is quick, i raced one in my 2.0 16v Corsa which i considered to be pretty quick (ported and polished head, SBD manifold and exhaust, filter, and Spax coilovers) was about 170bhp and it completely dicked me

However the clio is 20 years younger, drive an E46 M3 and you won't be disapointed... unless you drive it in 20 years time of course

[Motorhole]

The Clio 182 Trophies are REALLY quick when driven properly. I watched a standard one hassling an Evo 8 at Oulton Park on trackday...the guy obviously knew how to drive but the Evo driver wasn't exactly tootling.

Also rumoured to be capable of well below 9 minute 'ring laps in the right hands.

[DieselMeister]

Clio may be regarded as a great drivers car but thats surely got to be qualified with "Great FWD drivers car". I also have a Fiat Coupe Turbo and its way faster in a straight line but the Touring is far more fun round corners. I would say the coupe corners harder, but FWD is never as involving or just.. well.. fun!

Morat, trust me when I say I agree. I much prefer "standard drive". In fairness I have to say that a good drivers car is a good drivers car. I've no doubt any of us could have fun in a FWD hatch. But then I assume most of us, including myself, are firmly in the "engine in the front, drive to the back" camp.

Otherwise I wouldn't own a 91 sport

[Darylzimm3]

I agree with 316idude, i was also let down when i first test drove my M3, i had come from a tuned 318is which would have left the m3 for dust, but i knew what the m3 was about and after driving it and getting the feel for the handling and using the power properly it was a totally differant car.
Now i have alittle more power everytime i drive the car it puts the biggest smile on my face. The E30 M3 is a total package, the styling, the engine, handling, everything, you can never just put one thing on why you like the m3 its the whole thing and you love it...
See if your mate will do a swop with you for aweek, then come back and tell us that your selling your clio and buying an m3 and if your ever in w-sussex let me know and i'll take you out in my car and see if you come back and write a thread called slowM3...

[Falkster]

Its been said before that the lad is just sharing his opinion which Ive got to give him the credit for coming on here and doing such a brave thing.

I have a low mileage M3 and I have been wanting one ever since I was about 14/15 when I fist saw them in the Bristish and then in the DTM, Im not sure if I would ever look at a modern car in the same way as I do 'proper' ikons such as the E30, 3dr Cossies and Delta Evos. And as described before they are a road adapted race car. The feel from the car is just great the attention you get in the car is amazing!!! Can that be said for the Clio? No I dont think it can.....more like 'oh its a clio'

Only my opinion

[eun]

I agree with 316idude, i was also let down when i first test drove my M3, i had come from a tuned 318is which would have left the m3 for dust, but i knew what the m3 was about and after driving it and getting the feel for the handling and using the power properly it was a totally differant car.
Now i have alittle more power everytime i drive the car it puts the biggest smile on my face. The E30 M3 is a total package, the styling, the engine, handling, everything, you can never just put one thing on why you like the m3 its the whole thing and you love it...
See if your mate will do a swop with you for aweek, then come back and tell us that your selling your clio and buying an m3 and if your ever in w-sussex let me know and i'll take you out in my car and see if you come back and write a thread called slowM3...

i fell in love with this car when i saw it on here

i didnt realise it had that much bhp/torque either

i love it even more now

[bigkev]

i worked for renault for two years and i can honestly say that not one sport has ever impressed me the 172 or the 182 even the 225 V6 was a serious dissapointment.but we are safe in the knowledge that your average clio will start to fall apart( litteraly) from about 4-6 months into your proud ownership
RENAULT what a fucking heap of shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Simon]

i worked for renault for two years and i can honestly say that not one sport has ever impressed me the 172 or the 182 even the 225 V6 was a serious dissapointment.but we are safe in the knowledge that your average clio will start to fall apart( litteraly) from about 4-6 months into your proud ownership
RENAULT what a fucking heap of shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do recall the Top Gear feature on the clio, they were not impressed with the quality at all, bits falling off etc.

[bigkev]

you dont even get a spare wheel with the 182 only a can of tyre weld what the fuck is that all about

[Lordschleife]

Also rumoured to be capable of well below 9 minute 'ring laps in the right hands.

So is an E30 M3, or eg. a honda civic type-r

Clio trophy sounds like an awsome car though from everything I've read