advice-corrado vs 325

[NIX]

Right guys,

I know this is gonna seem like blasphemy but been thinkin bout going back to front wheel drive, in the form of a VW Corrado 2.9 VR6.

I currently own a slightly modded 318i, of which i may convert to a 325i or maybe even just save up and buy a 325i sport. alternatively, i'm thinkin i could save up a little more and buy myself a moddern classic, cue the corrado.

insurance is a bit more, fuel consumption i imagine will be a moderate amount more (not too fussed as it doesn't take long to get to work) but atleast i'll have like i said, a modern classic, of which im sure e30 m3s, alpinas, hartges etc are but not a 325i even if its a sport?

reasons for and against please guys if you dont mind sharing your opinion.

appreciated!

Nick

[Adammcf]

Corrado VR6 is a lovely car and I wouldnt mind owning one myself but I'd rather have my 325 Sport.
The best point about the Corrado is that lovely engine noise.

[NIX]

thanks mate,

more opinions please, also if you've got any knowledge/opinions on the corrados lower down the spectrum of which might be a bit more within my reach e.g the G60s. i know superchargers have a rep for unreliability but hey every car has atleast one fault. although i imagine fixing a supercharger could be v.costly??

thanks.

[Simon13]

i think sports are widely accepted now as classic partly due to the low probuction numbers, saying that when i tried to get my old one on a classic/limited miles, HIC insurance wouldn't do it. Ring up and say Alpina and hey presto classic policy for it. So who knows!

VR6 will woop a 325i no prob, different kettle of fish each have their own merits. But a 325's are absolute hoots to drive and also sound superb when driven hard

I've never had one so can't comment but they are a nice looking motor

[oguz327]

If i was going to go for the corrado it would have to be the vr6 otherwise you gotta be better off in a 325 for allround fun

[dark_sounds]

i was looking for a corrado g60 before my car,,,

they are very nice, and very knightrider style,,, check out corradoforum.com loads of info there,,,

there was a VR6 and a VR6 storm,,, try and get the storm,, though modern classic?? i dont se why it will be that great a classic, its not that huge in the dub scene,

the g60,,, hmm a refurb costs bout 600, i think, from, jabbasport, though they gone now,,, think G-werks do it...
its nice, the g60 very tuneable like most turboes, and can go!

the vr6 btw,,, dont expect better then 22mpg.. prob the same with the 325 but still... though also very front end heavy, VR6 is huge compared to the standard engines,,,

i do like though,,, they looked wicked when tastfully modified! smooth, yet still got the suttle squareness,

both have their own i prefered the e30, purely for rear wheel drive... and ur right,,,, u are a blasfimic fool!

[daveyw]

friend of mine had one (shes on the zone too). said it was over a grand to get the timing belt done. fuck that!

[tim_s]

the earlier vr6s aren't renowned for being that reliable, lovely cars though. they do have quite a following on the veedub scene, and will be worth plenty in time to come, esp if you get a storm vr6 with leather etc. fantastic seats and interior in the corrado too. bit rarer and more unique than a sport. g60s are a pita, make a great noise though (as do vr6s i guess!). depends what you want, the vr6 is a much more modern engine design than the m20, but the m20 is a rwd straight 6

[bigkev]

as far as VR6 being quicker than a 325 i dont think so my work mate has a 2.8vr6 golf with filter and 2.9 BBTB and i can stick right with him in my C1 2,3 so i cant see it being quicker than a 325 might be a weight issue

[bigkev]

the earlier vr6s aren't renowned for being that reliable, lovely cars though. they do have quite a following on the veedub scene, and will be worth plenty in time to come, esp if you get a storm vr6 with leather etc. fantastic seats and interior in the corrado too. bit rarer and more unique than a sport. g60s are a pita, make a great noise though (as do vr6s i guess!). depends what you want, the vr6 is a much more modern engine design than the m20, but the m20 is a rwd straight 6

more modern design you say
12 valves and single overhead cam nothing modern about that

[Gouki]

both cars are iconic and are or will be future classics. I prefer an E30 but only cos i drive one. Heard about the reliability issues with the supercharger so I'd avoid it unless the one your buying is mint. VR6 model is a good buy, on par with the 325i. And VR6 can hardly be called modern if its only 2 valve per cylinder as Kev pointed out.

[tim_s]

no, the vr6 is a much more modern design, valves per cylinder are not the only factor to consider chaps! it was a pretty cool design when it came out. is a compact, light, late 80s design. twin cam too. the angle of the V is very narrow, and the cyls staggered, so the iron block is much smaller than conventional sixes, and still v strong, hence why it can be shoe-horned into small fwd cars, and it affords a neat narrow single crossflow head. the balance is also good, like an inline 6.
the m20 is a much more straightforward 70s design, before we even consider things like that the vr6 has a chain not belt, cool things like electric aux water pump, not to mention the fuelling - vr6 has coilpack, knock, MAF, lambda etc.
as a whole, the engine makes the m20 look very primative.
tim

[Blue_MK2]

only rado i would get is the vr6. a vr6 storm if you can find one.

that v6 lump sounds well fruity. Plans to drop one in my mk2 golf in winter when its off road wooh

[bigkev]

it might have two cams but its still only one PER BANK and they make about 165 HP if i remember right so that means with all there electrotrickery they are still only getting what BMW got in the 70's with simple engineering so they are still way behind no contest beemer wins

[tim_s]

it might have two cams but its still only one PER BANK and they make about 165 HP if i remember right so that means with all there electrotrickery they are still only getting what BMW got in the 70's with simple engineering so they are still way behind no contest beemer wins

lol you don't remember right.
vr6 2.8 makes 174bhp
vr6 2.9 (in the corrado) makes 190bhp

both are more powerful and have more torque and are in lighter shells. in short they'll all totally spank an m20. you're also still not comparing like with like, the vr6 is lighter and smaller and more advanced. it will do better on fuel, have better throttle response etc.
don't get me wrong, it'll never be a straight 6 rwd bmw.
but its not a competition, and if it was, the facts speak for themselves. the veedub is faster, newer and fwd, bmw slower, older and rwd. in this case, veedub are certainly not way behind and bmw don't win any contest.

[bigkev]

like i said previously my mate and i are always having a go on the road (golf vr6) and he just cant get away from me and he has 500cc's on me and my car is 21 years old you cant argue with that and his cars not a shitter either as it was featured in golf+ magazine about 5 months ago and he cant drift the thing

[NIX]

Guys, thanks very much for the input, keep it coming as am still undecided. Reckon i'll be undecided up until I get my E30 checked out and also see how much money I may have been able to save by then.

Out of the corrados, vr6 would be the preffered/only choice (when vs a 325i sport), but even this is kinda stretching my budget as I idealy want to have a car sorted (whethers its my current car converted, a 325i sport or corrado vr6) ready for some summer time cruising.

If I converted my E30, this may be the cheapest option, and therefore able to achieve sooner. But i guess you cant beat having a genuine sport. Altho would be ashame to see the old gal go after all the time and money thats been spent but i guess it might be worth it in the long run-(would still want/need a few other bits other than whats needed for conversion) Atleast if I got a sport, could still transfer some of my good bits eg. poly bushes, strut brace...

Corrado storm would be sweet, but definitely out of my budget for this point in time. They go more for the Ԛ£5000+ mark don't they?

I reckon that if I pinned myself gettin a new car or doing the conversion by lets say...June-July, I'd be lookin to spend around Ԛ£3500-ish, give or take Ԛ£500. I've got other non-car related expenses, that unfortunately have to be seen to now and then but can't define as of yet how much of my paycheck they will eat up, plus my accounts been on the debit side for so long (recent x-student), would be nice to have a decent amount of credit!
One more thing, ideally wouldn't want to buy a car that has more than 120,000 or so miles on the clock.

So what d'ya reckon?

Cheeeeeeeers!!!

[pacerpete]

Sorry men,the VR6 corrado is an overpriced FWD gaylord chariot,no room in side,flimsy trim and dire fuel consumption ,on the plus side they sound nice and don't go rusty. Don't bother.

[Grantley]

VR6 Corrado all the way mate, you dont see many even compared to 325's. I think the late 80's VW last a lot better than beemers of the same age, I know it all depends on the way the car is looked after but think on the whole this is true. The VW will rust way less than a e30 and if you had a prob with the engine you can get a 2.8 block and have them bored out to 2.9 or get one out of a vento. There are'nt loads of Corrados left and even less nice VR6's so that can only be good for re-sale values. The one down side is as has been said allready they are terrible on petrol but it comes with the territory. The only e30 i would consider over a VR6 is a M3 but a VR6 Storm would be a hell of a find and a car I'd be very happy to own

[mk1chopper]

Thinking about getting one myself in a couple of years, if your going for performance the VR is the only one to go for, the g60 can be reliable but as soon as its tweaked you can say good buy to that. The valvers are a great all rounder, on par with the 318is but id rather have the 318is because its real wheel drive. The vr is best out of the bunch as, 1. its the quickest, 2. all vr are face lift models so they have the newer dash, relocated electric window switchs, different fogs and bonnet. 3, the vr still has the arm rest for the rear seat where as the 2.0 16v just had a bench. The storm is nice but over priced, better of just getting a vr with leather then yout half way to a storm anyway and you've probably saved about 1.5k. try and get one with electric recaros, (very nice). The vr engine was also modern in the way it use's a low angle v (15 degrees) to allow for a single cyclinder head. And the end of the day its your choice, i think the e30 is a great car, but id rather have a raddo vr6 over the 325, but thats me. Go test drive a few a see what you think. The corrado is followed well in the dub scene, but golfs are cheaper to buy, cheaper to insure (raddo is a coupe) and there cheaper to mod.

[Turbo-Brown]

the balance is also good, like an inline 6.

The balance of an inline 6 can be perfect, the balance of a VR6 can not.

They're a bastardisation of an excellent engine configutation (the I6). Why is it that with 400cc more capacity than the M20B25, they only make 20bhp more?

Why is it that with all their modern electrotrickery, they have a specific output of 65.5bhp/litre when the M20 manages 68.4?

Is it because they're an intrinsically flawed design that loses energy to out of balance forces and cylinder heads that have too much going on mechanically to comfortably accomodate things like ports? Almost certainly.

If modern design means generating engine configurations so that the salesmen have something to write about, then gimme '70's design any day!

Why, when everyone else was starting to make modern 4v/cyl engines did they have to use only 2?

How come Peugeot managed to achieve over 84bhp/litre from their eminently road usable Mi16 engine? Was it by re-writing the rule book? No, it was by concentrating on the basics and getting them right!

[Simon13]

go 2.7 m20 do it well and get 190-200bhp then see if the raddo will keep up don't think so!

[M5pilot]

I had a few goes with Vr6 Corrado's in my 2.7 and I could pull away slowly.

[SwirlyE30]

Corrados are sweet, espeically on a nice set of Deep dish with some subtle exteiriour mods, but id much rather own a nice 2.7. Its now fairly common to get 2.7s up to and beyond 200bhp with some nice torque figures as well. And tbh, theres something a lot cooler about bimmers imo.

Still a wicked car tho mate!

[NIX]

Again, thanks for all your advice guys
It is helpin towards a decision, although at the end of the day a lot of it hinges as always, on cash, and how much I can save up.

Seems like a good 325i sport will be cheaper, both to buy and maintain (E30 parts more common than Corrado parts?).
In essence, more achievable for me if I want it before summer.

However!
If I put something like Ԛ£2500 - Ԛ£3000 towards converting my current chariot, I could have quite a sweet ride ie. 2.5, h+r suspension, h+r anti roll bars, recaro leather, lsd etc bare in mind i'd be payin a mate to do it also. Only thing is it wont be a genuine sport nor will the resale value do it justice, but if I plan to keep it for a while or make it even more special in the future, then who cares.
Then again, why f@ck about if I can just find a decent sport...?

[SwirlyE30]

If youve got 3000 to pay with anyway mate and want somthing before summer, why dont you just get a sport now? Could get a nice motor for that sort of money. Already with leathers LSD etc, then you can always 2.7 it at a latter date mate.
Plus you wont really lose money compared to putting 3 grand into a 318 making it a sport, ya dig?

[Kamaloff]

My modded 325i Tourer has spanked many an unsuspecting vr6... BMW FTW

[mk1chopper]

The vr didnt need to be 24 valve, the 12 valve engine allowed for a good all-round performance. And theres no point comparing engine capacitys and bhp, look what 2.0 4 cylinder engines put out, the toyota engine was putting out 168bhp at around the same time. its not always worth looking at bhp, torque is a major factor. There's so much talk about 12v and 4 valves per cylinder, and 2.7 conversion, what about an M50 conversion instead?

[NicDale]

friend of mine had one (shes on the zone too). said it was over a grand to get the timing belt done. fuck that!

LOL the VR6 has timing chains not belts

[NicDale]

it might have two cams but its still only one PER BANK and they make about 165 HP if i remember right so that means with all there electrotrickery they are still only getting what BMW got in the 70's with simple engineering so they are still way behind no contest beemer wins

lol you don't remember right.
vr6 2.8 makes 174bhp
vr6 2.9 (in the corrado) makes 190bhp

both are more powerful and have more torque and are in lighter shells. in short they'll all totally spank an m20. you're also still not comparing like with like, the vr6 is lighter and smaller and more advanced. it will do better on fuel, have better throttle response etc.
don't get me wrong, it'll never be a straight 6 rwd bmw.
but its not a competition, and if it was, the facts speak for themselves. the veedub is faster, newer and fwd, bmw slower, older and rwd. in this case, veedub are certainly not way behind and bmw don't win any contest.

First VR6 engine was introduced in 1993, hardly new tech but yes newer tech than an e30 engine. Any idea what the 24V E36 engines put out? I think i'm right in saying the e36 328i Sport just touches 200bhp? Quite similar i'd say. The 24V VW 2.8 V6 puts out 205 bhp

[M5pilot]

The M52 2.8 is heavily restricted aswell.

Easy to get 220bhp from them.

[Simon13]

2.5 m20's put out very good torque.

2.8 M52's put out 206lbs of torque! as said Ԛ£50 325i E36 inlet manifold and throttle bodie from scrap yard, and chip will give a solid extra 20bhp end of

proper 2.7 M20 do the same?!



all comes down to being inline 6

[tim_s]

the balance is also good, like an inline 6.

The balance of an inline 6 can be perfect, the balance of a VR6 can not.

They're a bastardisation of an excellent engine configutation (the I6). Why is it that with 400cc more capacity than the M20B25, they only make 20bhp more?

Why is it that with all their modern electrotrickery, they have a specific output of 65.5bhp/litre when the M20 manages 68.4?

Is it because they're an intrinsically flawed design that loses energy to out of balance forces and cylinder heads that have too much going on mechanically to comfortably accomodate things like ports? Almost certainly.

If modern design means generating engine configurations so that the salesmen have something to write about, then gimme '70's design any day!

Why, when everyone else was starting to make modern 4v/cyl engines did they have to use only 2?

How come Peugeot managed to achieve over 84bhp/litre from their eminently road usable Mi16 engine? Was it by re-writing the rule book? No, it was by concentrating on the basics and getting them right!

i agree with you to some extent fella, an inline 6 is ideal as far as balance is concerned. but given the restraints, that the vr6 was designed to be a compact, light 6 that can fit in a fwd engine bay as i've tried to emphasise, it really is a pretty cool design - you wouldn't easily get an inline 6 into a golf with a gearbox and maintaining a crumple zone.



as far as balance is concerned, its not so bad - its the v5 thats bad in this respect. the inlet ports are great - by virtue of its nice twin cam crossflow head there's plenty of room for good inlet/exhaust. and the 15 degree V is pretty neat as far as crank balance is concerned, it doens't have the crazy balance issues of the v5. sure its not the most efficient engine out there, and sure there are limitations to the design, but don't forget the vr6 in 24v form makes 250bhp in the r32 (78bhp/litre), over 200bhp in the 2.8 (72bhp/litre), so the argument of the flaws of the vr6 in this respect don't really stand up. comparing bhp/litre may favour the m20 by a little, and if you compare say the m52 2.8 (192bhp) to either the 2.9 12v (190bhp) or the 2.8 24v (201bhp) vr6, the successor to the m20 is not that great bhp/litre. ok so there's loads of other considerations to be made in such a comparison, but that's exactly the point - power/litre is not the whole story. and i think the low 2.8 vr6 power figure is quite intriguing up against the 2.9 vr6, i'd imagine there's marketing concerns going on there between the two engines (though don't know if this is true)

as to simon's 'all comes down to being an inline 6' - er r32? 24v 2.8 vr6?
sure they are all compromised in a way than an inline 6 isn't! and yes i would have a bmw 6, but in a golf/corrado the vr6 is just the ticket! i know its a bmw forum, but surely you must see that an early corrado, heralded at the time by the motoring press as the best handling fwd car of all time, with nearly 200bhp in a 6 that takes up the room of a 4 pot, is a great car - and that the engine is great for the chassis? i wouldn't want a conventional v6 hanging past the front axle. and for the early 90s, the engine is pretty modern - not nec in terms of power output, but size and weight, timing chain, eleccy water pump, v compact and light, MAF, lambda, knock etc etc.

[whiterhino]

sorry to put a spanner in the works boys but a corrado vr6 would eat a sport.I have owned both cars so should know and theres no way a c1 2.3 can keep up with a corrado vr6 or the golf for that matter.If you want straight line speed get a vr6 coz they are quite boring cars unless you have a ram air filter then it will sound like a tvr.If you like driving on the edge and build qaulity get a sport its miles more fun to drive plus the straight six sounds great in its own right.I cant comment on alpina 2.7 coz you never see them on the road.Are alpinas as quick as a 215bhp m3? if so then they are faster coz my pal had a genuine 200bhp golf vr6 and there was about 2 car lengths between us on the motorway coming home from a lakeside meet last year.anyway enough bullsh?t get yourself a sport its easily the best e30 bar m3.

[NIX]

Still torn between the two, and I think the idea of converting my car is kinda fading.

If anything though I think I'm starting to lean more towards the sport due to cost - for the price of a decent corrado vr6, you could get a minter of a 325i sport, tech 2. Not to mention parts costs, as well as trying to find corrado parts compared an e30. Also I'd be able to swap some of the good bits from my current car, so I wouldn't lose as much money from what I put into her.

Not to mention the fact that this site seems better than some of the vw/corrado sites I'v had a geez over!!!

But will just have to wait and see now what the cash situations like in 3 months or so.

Thanks, thanks and more thanks for the input so far! Not as bias as I thought it was gonna be.

Nick