This true story will make you weep... E30 M3 3.2 Conversion

[bigkev]

surely the whole point of all of us driving cars that are between 13 and 20 odd years old is the enjoyment of restoring/maintaning/modifying.when i work on my car i do it for myself and no one else and the value is the last thing on my mind.its all about driving something different and individual.if resale value is such an issue to some people then they should get down to the auction to by some shitheaps to resell for a profit.all i want to do is drive something different that looks good and goes well is that not what its all about

[Kos]

kos

have you seen that car in question? its fantastic, a very nice e30. all done properly with the right parts. the end result is very nice. its a car i would love to own to be honest. but im a loser with no money.

the evo2 valuation comment is immaterial once the car has been fucked about with. the price of STANDARD m3"s is proportional with regards to the models, ie, more so for the evo"s.

as that materbates person said, the m3 market is a very different one. people who are going to spank 6k at the least on a 17 year old car are going to poke around with a pointy stick and probably have someone with them who knows the score.

anyone remember the silver(i think) e30 m3 with the s50 lump in. forsale last year. about 6k its was, and it didnt seem to be shifting. although someone proper on here did dish the dirt on the car. didnt sound good, but besides that, it doesnt make it a valueable car once pissed about with.

i have seen it and it is very very nice (bar the "recaro" logo on the seats), but robs car, as a complete one with interior will easliy be worth more, despite the minimal rust on the floor which will be repaired.
i know the silver car you are on about, i whent to look at out of curiosity and i hear what you are saying. we will be closely checking ant potential car we want to by aspecially if it is heavily modded and a large sum of money.
but end of the day will rob sell it?? i doubt it!!

[MaaasterBates]

its still an evoII, which makes it worth a small fortune

But it's not - the shell was once an Evo 11 but the chassis plate equates to something quite different. A good Evo 11 is worth about Ԛ£7500 - 9k because they're not that wonderful - the '89-90 215 bhp stock M3 is as good if not better and a lot less rusty/shagged.

The difference between this 'M3' and the 325i with the M3 3 litre might be hard for some to spot but in my mind it's the difference between being a nice car and something that isn't.
A car which has had welding to the BULKHEAD (go and have a look), has been stripped into a million bits and reassembled, colour changed and had a chassis number which doesn't relate to the shell it's on will NEVER, EVER be a 'nice' car.

The 325i was converted by people who knew what they were doing and he started off with a really lovely low mileage car. THAT is the difference and that's what makes it a nice proper car. It owes the guy Ԛ£15'000, half of what this monster cost - and it's a taxed, MOT'd car you can jump into and drive anywhere. Ԛ£10'000 versus Ԛ£30'000 - so the shell wasn't a rusty M3, so what?

I do have some sympathy, but not a lot to be honest although MFree's 600 word long verbose posts make amusing reading. We're all grown ups and most of us would have asked about before parting with dollars - well, I would have done. One Forum enquiry about Stratos/GSR would have thrown up a million horror stories.

[MFree]

Maasterbates (what happened to 'Masterbates'?) - I really cant be bothered to reply fully to most of the points you made but i feel i have to as its such tosh what you've written! It is virtually all factually incorrect and of questionable motivation IMO. When did you see it at "Phils" exactly? Please say! I will ask him who exactly has come and seen it. I simply dont believe you did as if you did (and actually looked rather than guessing from the photos) you'd know that there is no bulkead rust and only 2 TINY holes in the floor (being welded as I write) and superficial rust on one inner wing - this hardly constitutes a rusty ringer!

And what exactly constitutes being 'a mess' ??? That's simply a load of old guff! The paint job is superb (disagree?) , the chassis is totally sound (i will get photos up of the entire chassis so no-one on the Zone believes your unfounded jibes - which dont seem 'neutral' - they seem motivated by aggression, its not just me is it? Is the whole tone of this guys posts aggressive and dismissive or what?) the suspension is Ԛ£2500 of the best there is (disagree?) , the engine and box are low mileage units (disagree?), the brakes are going to be custom AP items so the best you can get (disagree?), the bodykit is the highest quality carbon fiber (disagree?), the wheels are fully restored 3-piece shnitzers which are the best you can get (disagree?) - the interior has new race seats and steering wheel so all in all, WTF ARE YOU *TALKING* ABOUT??

Whatever your motivations are for posting what you have and into bargain also having a dig at me about my writing style (are you the Thought Police now as well as the cant-size-up-a-car-Police?), well whatever - you have written it now so you wont need to write anymore will you as clearly the project doesnt interest you right! So lets leave postings on this thread to those that are interested in the project shall we, not those that are clearly seeking only to satisfy their own petty agenda (please, dont mistake that for an enquiry as to what that agenda actually is, as I simply dont care!)

As you all know, ive been eaten and shat off a cliff by this project in all phases but this and as its now being built almost from scratch again finally the way I always wanted, im not having anyone piss on my bonfire thanks!

Peace and love to you Mateybates (God I wish I was you! I may yet have a sex change so i can try and pursuade you to let me have your babies I want you THAT much! better hope we never meet as i'll be all over you!! Phwoar!!!)

ok ok that's enough...

MFree

p.s 'verbose' is a jolly big word isnt it? Also who are 'GSR'? And all there was to find on forums about Stratos back when they had the car would have been alot of for and against opinion, FYI Nigel Moseley actually recommended them to me as he didnt know what they were up to back then! And *GTS* (not 'GSR') had won back to back ISCC championships so came with impeccable credentials, who was to know they would choose to let a trainee do all the work putting outright profit ahead of doing a decent job and thus sacrificing their reputation? Hindsight is a hendy thing is it not? So again best 'shhh' as you are just undermining yourself the more you say!

[will325is]

the suspension is Ԛ£2500 of the best there is (disagree?) , the engine and box are low mileage units (disagree?), the brakes are going to be custom AP items so the best you can get (disagree?), the bodykit is the highest quality carbon fiber (disagree?), the wheels are fully restored 3-piece shnitzers which are the best you can get (disagree?) - the interior has new race seats and steering wheel so all in all, WTF ARE YOU *TALKING* ABOUT??

nice, what are you doing with engine?

[MFree]

Wow great! A genuine enquiry without a hidden agenda! Well mate other than having made sure it survived the crash unscathed, we are going to great lengths to make it look clean including blasting the ally components including the plenums with that fine glass stuff (dunno what its called exactly). We are retaining zooms exhaust manifold as its not bad and certainly doesnt justify changing for the sake of it, it will have a nice exhaust system from one of the best race exhaust builders in the country; we are using the standard intake/airbox as it now fits unmodified and as for tuning, we are not modifying anything initially before we get it on the road and shake it down but after that (and this is hot off the press breaking news!!!), we are looking to trial/demo the VAC Motorsport 3.4 conversion if possible which should see it produce 375-400bhp... that should take it into a whole different dimension of performance shouldnt it!

Thanks for your genuine interest Will! You are helping to re-establish my faith that the Zone hasn't totally gone to plonkerville!

MFree

[will325is]

Is that a stroker job, I heard the 3.2's are very close on bore anyway and people prefer the 3.0 sometimes, gona get some forged pistons and nice cam?, i guess you will be to make that much power NA, good to see you got someone reliable doing your work now

[DannyM3]

I just joined this forum having bought my first E30 M3 and read the first thread in the chat forum! What a thread to start with! It's like a war in places! I hope you don't mind me giving my 2 cents on this? I think when you have gotten this far down the road with a project like this which has had so many hard knocks, you are almost duty bound to see it through.

Good luck to you MFree - you are a stronger character than most especially as people seem to like constantly taking pot shots at you on your thread! You must have some previous 'beef' with this Masterbate person for him to be so vicious? What did you do - step on his toe in a queue at the supermarket?

That stuff about wanting to have his babies was too much, I almost soiled myself laughing! Fair do's though, he seems really angry and out of order in what he had to say.

There aren't many M3 owners on the forum though are there (4 only)? I thought there would be more! Good luck finishing the car MFree - you deserve a break or 10!

DannyM3

[MFree]

Will325i - yes it is indeed a stroker job. I don't know that much about it yet, you'd have to ask CPC, but it does include a cam too and special pistons. The 3.2 has a much narrower powerband than the 3.0 which is indeed a more reliable lump due largely to the fragile double VANOS on the 3.2 and also most 3.2's in reality never achieved anything close to the quoted 321bhp and often achieved little more than the 3.0 motors!

Indeed I have got someone really good now sorting the car (which is why I find it so puzzling that ive had more negative 'just give up, its a mess' comments recently then while it was languishing at Zoom doing nothing!?). I think people just expect it to continually be a nightmare after all the dramas ive had and cant believe its going well now.

DannyM3 - I hope you bagged a nice example! Ah... another man showing quality judgement! Yeah - a war is about right! And no, I seem to remember the original masterbates person posting on my thread before but I have no idea why he's got the daggers out to be honest! He's just showed himself up though in the rubbish he wrote, sad really, but we had too much argy bargy earlier in the thread over the ChippedUK/Zoom dabacle and im not going to let that kind of immature stupidity pollute it again so thats that as far as im concerned!

MFree

[MaaasterBates]

Factually nincorrect eh? I've seen welding on the car (inner wings/bulkhead, whatever......) a five year old would be ashamed of. The paint job's not bad but for Ԛ£25'000 the prep work could have been better.
I saw the car on Saturday February 18th by the way. What a fucking mess that car is. I wouldn't piss away another pound on that car but I've always been sensible about cars.
The chassis number on that car doesn't tally up with the build date and original colour of the shell but I guess it doesn't matter now anyway.

As for recommendations - what was that old saying about lunatics and asylums?

[jonb]

m-free/dannym3

masterbates doesnt have any daggers towards you. everyones entitled to there opinion.

hes not the only one to be honest. you tell all of us how youve spanked 30k on a 18 year old shell. then you show the pictures of the thing and expect us to bite our tongues off?

[MaaasterBates]

By the way Danny/MFree, talking to yourself is (almost) the first sign of madness......

NURSE!!!!!!!!!!!

[jonb]

roses are red.....

violets are blue....

im a schizophrenic....

and so am i....!

[MFree]

But why are you so angry about it MB?

Why the agression?

Jonb/Masterbates - I asked no one to bite their tounges off im just trying to be enthusiastic now that its going well!!! Whats wrong with that? Im not making anything up about the car am i? (unlike some)

I dunno... you are entitled to your opinion - everyone is. I just dont think there's any point in just slagging the car off!!! Or now this latest personal jibe saying im two people...

Anyway this IS gonna get like the Zoom/Chipped UK debacle if we;re not careful, and i seem to remember you being in the middle of that one too!

You have made your view of the car crystal clear (twice!) and as ive said clearly, its simply not justified given what I listed above - the best way I have of proving my point is when the car is completed - agreed?

THEN you can eat your words!


MFree

[MaaasterBates]

As a point of general info, the M3 3.2 Evolution DOES do a genuine 321 bhp. But only (due to having an 11.3:1 compression) when it's run on fuel of AT LEAST 98 opctane, preferable 99/100 or whatever the full fat Super Unleaded used to be.
Run it on regular gas and they lose about 25 bhp and feel a bit lifeless.
The Vanos problem is a tricky one but with 6000 mile oil changes and regular replacement of the filter gauze (that BMW never change) they're not bad. I know of one Coupe with 78'000 on it's first Vanos unit. But yes, the 3 litre is a stronger engine.

[MFree]

MB - ask Phil at CPC about the differences he's seen in the BHP output of different 3.2's he's seen - there was an article on this with many M3's rolling roaded in one of the mags last year and the range was from 310BHP (the highest) I think down to a pitiful 280BHP i think...

ANd they were all on the same fuel...

The paint job cost Ԛ£2000.00.
What poor prep work? Say that to jason and he'll probably eat you alive! it was long-blocked and primed and re-rubbed down twice! The panels were pretty bad before, but other than 2 tiny marks in total, the finish is unbelievably good in EVERYONE else's opinion not just mine! Jesus what IS your problem? Why are you so desparate to keep digging away and be so petty/aggressive with it? Did you forget your prozac this morning or what??

What welding are you saying is poor? At that point (the 18th) the only welding that was done wast a single plate under the fuse box which i fail to see how it could be done any better?

I will post a photo next week. Pictures speak a thousend words.

Lastly, of you who like me think the red seats wont go at all well with the paintwork colour can breathe a sigh of relief as Kos is buying them from me! Remember the car was gonna be grey thats why i chose red... The thing is I sat in one today and i do really like the seat (SParco Corsa) but they are very tight/fitted and hence excludes anyone thats not stick-thin from getting into them - so when i buy a new pair of black ones, as its so hard to actually try them out first, though i can always return them once bought, has anyone tried anyother fixed back fiberglass shell seats that are supportive yet a bit more 'roomy'? The pro2000 looks roomier than the Corsa - anyone tried them out before?



MFree

[OllieB]

Like Mr Tug It said, BMW's quoted figures for the Evo engine are on like 100ron fuel. Some cars will show decent power on 98ron but you will almost never see an Evo engine pumping out the full fat 321bhp on this stuff. It was largely a marketing ploy because at the time BMW put a huge amount of emphasis on the fact that their latest M-power engine was pumping out over 100 horse power per litre (Conveniently 1bhp over this milestone) when they generally don't.

The 5spd gearboxes from the 3.0 car are stronger than the Evo's 6spd effort too....

[MaaasterBates]

MB - ask Phil at CPC about the differences he's seen in the BHP output of different 3.2's he's seen - there was an article on this with many M3's rolling roaded in one of the mags last year and the range was from 310BHP (the highest) I think down to a pitiful 280BHP i think...

MFree

You can ask me if you like - I was at Noble's dyno a few weeks back and saw a number of Z M Coupes that did around 315-325 bhp. The more miles the cars had done, the more power they made. The cars with 10'000 miles on the clock were way down to around 280-290 bhp. Also my folks owned AmD who not only had a dyno that did alot of BMW's including Kumho racers but installed a bhp measuring system at BMW GB in Bracknell. Seen quite a few E36 M3's one way or another. You'll find the cars that do 280 bhp are either tight as a Nun's wotsits or shagged out with low compressions (pitted valve seats etc) and Vanos units that aren't up to scratch. A good one on proper fuel does 321 bhp, trouble is there aren't many like that.

I just spoke to Phil actually - he was having his 10.30pm teabreak whilst him and Pete were doing the welding - he's certainly putting the hours in and I reckon this car could be up and running/driving before the end of the month at this rate. It's when the car is running and driving that it will really come to life and you'll have a renewed enthusiasm for it. There's nothing worse or more useless than a dead non runner.

As for a roll cage, don't bother because you'll spoil the car. Rollcages are for racing cars or those who think they're racing drivers (which are you?). Once you've banged your head/knee on the bastard a few times you'll soon get fed up with it. The insurance will either go through the roof or the car will be uninsurable - from the Insurance company's point of view, you're putting a cage in because you think you might have a big accident - it's the way they think but to be honest a cage in a road car looks really stupid. Don't do it. Just a nice standard black leather trim, M Tech 2 steering wheel and no aftermarket lick'n'stick shite. Add some decent rims like Alpinas or Hartge split rims and it should look decent enough.

BTW I used to paint cars years and years ago. The paint on yours isn't bad at all - in fact it's a pretty decent job, and Ԛ£2000 isn't a bad price considering all the work that's involved with a colour change.

[stevetigger]

Whats it matter what engine is stronger or better. And Tesco is soon to do 101 octane fuel!

I would sooner have a 3.2 over a 3.0 just for bragging rights!

[MaaasterBates]

I would sooner have a 3.2 over a 3.0 just for bragging rights!

Really? How about an M50 2.5 with all ancilliaries for Ԛ£300?

[bigkev]

now you have my full attention where can i get one

[MFree]

MB - im mystified by your actions i really am! You pour out all this really acidic aggressive stuff for seemingly no reason or provocation and then suddenly your last posting its as if that was someone else earlier!?

I guess Phil must have had a calming influence!

I'm (amazingly) lost for words i really am! The phrase bi-polar or even schitzophrenic springs to mind - why come on so strong like that in the first place then just drop it just as suddenly? I'll ask Phil about this bizarre
change of pace...

Im not complaining, im a very civilised person. I just wish you could go back and delete all that stuff you wrote that's all! And my responses.

Forget what you think about me and the various aspects of the car for now (although im not sure WHAT your view is now given your last posting), one thing we CAN agree on is the skills of Mr Crouch and i hope you will concurr that if as i am saying, the car DOES get turned around from being the Frankensteins monster of all M3 conversions to being a really top quality car then it will be a complete testament to how good CPC / Phil is at what he does right? CPC is the best kept secret in town as far as i can see - Zoom appears to have been alot better known than CPC was but given their respective work-standards that is totally unjustified it seems to me! I guess that's because John put himself and Zoom into the public eye alot more forcefully through his drifting... Whereas Phil is alot more "softly softly catchey monkey"!

And also a vindication of my unwavering dedication to the cause of seeing this through (sorry, had to get that in!) to the end.

When i was there today Phil said Mr Walsh was doing the welding tonight, I just hope he also gives up that LHD carpet he has for me as well!

I agree in part about the rollcage, but i am going to do a good many trackdays in it and hence want the shell stiffness significantly raised... and the insurance wont be a problem, it just wont be.

Lastly in your about-turn last posting you wrote:

"It's when the car is running and driving that it will really come to life and you'll have a renewed enthusiasm for it"

I *AM* enthusiastic about it! I dont need it renewed, it has been ever since i got what Phil was about!! Thats why I kept repeating the same to you over and over again in previous postings!!! And why i got so annoyed at your tirade of negative "give up on that pile of shit" jibes!

...too weird.
I much prefer things this way tho so lets keep the truce and let CPC's work do the talking!

MFree

[jonb]

why come on so strong like that in the first place then just drop it just as suddenly? I'll ask Phil about this bizarre
change of pace...

you really need help my friend. and im not talking about your m3 "project" either.

[powerone]

I wished i had gone for the 3 litre engine instead of the 3.2 but saying that, it did go like stink

I am sure you will be happy when the car is done but for 3.6 turbo 933 money or ferrari 355 money which is what it will have cost you i am sure there will be days when you look back and think why.

saying that, the self satisfaction of it coming together might well give you enough pleasure to forget the heartache and get on with enjoying the car.
i wish you the best, you dont deserve the agro you have suffered.

[MFree]

OMG - What now???

you really need help my friend. and im not talking about your m3 "project" either."

Jonb - I've been totally consitent throughout this series of exchanges and just bemused by this change of position, its a total mess and will never be anything but a piece of shit and then suddenly in the next posting he says it should turn out to be a nice car? I think someone at Birds must have slipped a tab in my tea earlier or something!

Ive kept this journal going at a pace recently to highlight the good work being done, but I dont appreciate these comments at all. Im not being precious, i've just wasted an hour or more on here tonight and im very very busy at the moment with work. So I just dont need this to be honest. It's not me that needs the help - and quite clearly you are no 'friend' of mine. I will post one major update at the end of the project to show what CPC has achieved, but thats all im going to do.

Powerone - cheers. im so weary now given this most odd past few hours on this thread while i was working away on my computer that this is all i can say! You are probably 'me' as an alias too right? Truth is Im actually Kos in disguise...

MFree[/quote]

[MFree]

I'd just like to apologise to everyone that's had to read the last 10 posts or so that represent a needless verbal bloodbath - i shouldnt have fallen for it - now that I know who Maasterbates is and what he does, I am not bothered anymore about what he wrote as I now know why he wrote it! All i have to say on the subject finally is that MB, given that you are a commentator on all of the subjects discussed here, not in any way a 'do-er', I'd like to see how you would fair after 5 years of what has happened on this project!

Anyway as i said, as long as i know where this has come from and why, given that its motivated just by the desire to go touting for a fight, Im not bothered - i had thought that I had made a personal enemy so it's ok - though it's even more sad (unless there is some loyalty there) that jonb thought it necessary or appropriate to wade in too! I had had few too many beers last night too which with extreme tiredness were making me
overly paranoid!!

Anyway, Im sticking by what i said about my updates, I will only post here now when there is a significant amount of progress to report, as I just can't stomach having to keep defending the work being done anymore! It drains my energy!

So expect something in a few weeks from now

MFree

[jonb]

I'd like to see how you would fair after 5 years of what has happened on this project!

i seriously doubt that anyone would get into this situation if they had more than 3 damaged brain cells. a fool and his money they say.

it's even more sad (unless there is some loyalty there) that jonb thought it necessary or appropriate to wade in too! I had had few too many beers last night too which with extreme tiredness were making me
overly paranoid!!

no loyalty, just a couple of blokes voiceing there opinions, and having a laugh at the same time.

ive noticed in your past posts you have attacked and looked down upon innocent members of the forum. food for thought.....

alcohol and medication is a bad mix my friend.

[Grantley]

I think the whole lot of you need to grow up a bit, all this ranting about a car

[MFree]

thats the whole point. its not about a car. its just idiotic pack-instinct aggressive nonsense. I know MB has, but hopefully the other guy has had his fill and will go away as ive repeatedly asked.

MFree

[MFree]

Floor welding done (they found quite a bit more than they originally thought on one inner wing but the floor is sorted now and sound) CPC now move onto spring cleaning - i didnt see the point of a beautifully resprayed engine bay and a motor sitting in it that's covered in corrosion and grime and oil! So though time consuming Phil is taking everything apart to get it either particle blasted or vapour blasted (as with the throttle bodies pictured)

Cant wait to see what they look like when theyve been blasted!

later

MFree


and the new bulkhead insulation ready for fitting...

[stevetigger]

Good luck!

[jmc330i]

Cant wait to see what they look like when theyve been blasted!

It would be good to see a pic of them when there are done. Mine were a real pain to clean up by hand and they still arent that great.

[HotboxDeluxe]

i've just read all of this



is it done yet?

[MFree]

Stevetigger - Justin is perfectly capable of communicating whatever he's had to by himself, without needing you jumping in on his behalf over an issue that has NOTHING to do with you whatsoever. It also doesnt need to be plastered across this thread which has nothing to do with that issue at all. You could easily have sent me a PM about this instead, this just shows that your intentions are more than to just remind me about it - something i dont need as he messaged me today anyway telling me that all is ok - muck spreading belongs on the farm not the Zone!

FYI the initial letter sent 2 weeks ago or so was lost in the post along with 3 other letters sent (i live in one of the worst areas for post office worker abuse of the postal service) and i just sent another one yesterday along with an additional amount to compensate Justin for the long wait!

And this also has nothing to do with this project, i dont suddenly lose the right to classify work done on my project as immoral and a rip-off just because ive taken too long to pay someone back a small sum of money!!! CharlE30 / Justin is not a child and you are not his dad, so kindly butt out!

---------------------
jmc330i - I am told they and many other ally parts came back today - i await photos....

MFree

[bootyman]

This is actually starting to get sad now and reflect the unwanted side of the Zone. This is a thread about one man and his quest to get his car finished and it's being diverted with personal attacks and worthless unhelpful comments about things that has nothing to do with the thread. I'm not on anyone's side, but if you have nothing constructive to contribute to the thread then just dont say nothing and let the thread run for the reasons Mfree posted it.

Ho and my comments are aimed at all and not individuals so dont anyone take it personal