Hi all,
Hope your all well,
I find myself unsure which route to take and am after some advice and pointers.
I have a 1986 320i with the M20B20 engine and it needs a fair bit of TLC.
I’m thinking the easiest thing to do is pull it out do all the work then put it back in. This also means I can tidy up the engine bay while I’m at it.
However, I’d like to know how easy is this to do? Would it be something I could have a crack at, I’m no mechanic but do have previous experience and went to collage for a few years although this was 10-15 years ago.
Is there a book/guide for this, Haynes manual or something like that?
Also this has got me thinking is there a better engine that I could put in its place as I’m potentially pulling it all out anyway, ideally a straight swap with minimal work that won’t cost me a fortune (can hope for the best right). Like I said I would like to do as much as possible myself again to keep costs down, but not sure if it’s out of my league.
If anyone can shed some light for me would be much appreciated.
Thanks all, Matt.
M20b20 engine
Moderator: martauto
One thing about these cars is you can work on them yourself, not hard if you are handy with spanners. I would find one of the old Haynes manuals that still had useful information in them (orange cover with an E21 on the front) Plenty on ebay. Bently manual is geared to US models but still useful around various places as a pdf or in paper if you are feeling flush.
What to do with a 320i has been a cause of many heated discussions on here in the past but things are a bit different now.
'86 is on the cusp as to whether it is late jetronic or early motronic, that will dictate a lot of what is needed. An upgrade to motronic 1.3 is good on any engine. All in the wiki here.
Nothing wrong with putting it back as-is, especially if the rest is original, gone are the days when a 320i was frowned on, none of them will stand up to a anything more than a mild hot hatch today but a nice running 325i is a good thing to drive and putting a 2.5 back in would not be much more work, especially if you are upgrading to motronic. Trouble is most M20B25 need work these days.
Depending how much you want to spend, there is a way to turn them into a nice 2.9 but it is not cheap.
You could always open the Pandora's box of engine swaps but most of the tried and tested candidates are old engines themselves these days and I think an E30 needs to keep its M20 as nothing else sounds or looks right.
Good luck with it and I am sure Mart will be along shortly to ask for photos!
What to do with a 320i has been a cause of many heated discussions on here in the past but things are a bit different now.
'86 is on the cusp as to whether it is late jetronic or early motronic, that will dictate a lot of what is needed. An upgrade to motronic 1.3 is good on any engine. All in the wiki here.
Nothing wrong with putting it back as-is, especially if the rest is original, gone are the days when a 320i was frowned on, none of them will stand up to a anything more than a mild hot hatch today but a nice running 325i is a good thing to drive and putting a 2.5 back in would not be much more work, especially if you are upgrading to motronic. Trouble is most M20B25 need work these days.
Depending how much you want to spend, there is a way to turn them into a nice 2.9 but it is not cheap.
You could always open the Pandora's box of engine swaps but most of the tried and tested candidates are old engines themselves these days and I think an E30 needs to keep its M20 as nothing else sounds or looks right.
Good luck with it and I am sure Mart will be along shortly to ask for photos!
Thanks a lot very helpful, iv just ordered the Haynes manual so will have a look at what I’m up against when that arrives.
After having a quick look on here I think mines the jetronic so defo look into that when the time comes.
My original plan was to fully restore it all first and run it like that see how I get on, with thoughts that I could look at possible upgrades or potentially an engine swap at a later date.
I think I’m going to stick with that plan and focus on what I have rather than getting too ahead of myself for the time being.
Thanks again much appreciated
After having a quick look on here I think mines the jetronic so defo look into that when the time comes.
My original plan was to fully restore it all first and run it like that see how I get on, with thoughts that I could look at possible upgrades or potentially an engine swap at a later date.
I think I’m going to stick with that plan and focus on what I have rather than getting too ahead of myself for the time being.
Thanks again much appreciated
Depending on what kind of TLC it needs, there's potentially a lot of basic things you can do without pulling the engine out. For example, fixing all of the vacuum leaks makes a massive difference!
Having recently bought an E39 with a M52B28, I've realised that a solid M20B20 has some pretty good characteristics.
Having recently bought an E39 with a M52B28, I've realised that a solid M20B20 has some pretty good characteristics.
Thanks for the replies all.
To be honest it’s a bit more than TLC that’s needed, although it runs it’s been sitting for around 5 years, can see leaks etc and looks in a pretty sorry state, i was going to do what I can without removing the engine but feel I’m better off just pulling it out and having a proper look and doing everything needed before it goes back in.
My biggest problem at the moment is having somewhere to do it, which is why it might be a case of getting a garage to do it, I imagine that won’t be cheap tho
To be honest it’s a bit more than TLC that’s needed, although it runs it’s been sitting for around 5 years, can see leaks etc and looks in a pretty sorry state, i was going to do what I can without removing the engine but feel I’m better off just pulling it out and having a proper look and doing everything needed before it goes back in.
My biggest problem at the moment is having somewhere to do it, which is why it might be a case of getting a garage to do it, I imagine that won’t be cheap tho
To be honest I can't think of much that can't be done with the engine in place. even the sump gasket can be done with the engine in place if you try, rear main seal is only one I can think of that needs engine out.
Yes easier with engine out but in place you can shut the bonnet and give it a rest if you feel the need. That way you can just do one job at a time.
Taking the engine out yourself is often easier by lifting the body off the whole front subframe. Everything seems more in control than having the engine and gearbox in the air dangling at strange angles to get it in and out. I have done it both ways.
Yes easier with engine out but in place you can shut the bonnet and give it a rest if you feel the need. That way you can just do one job at a time.
Taking the engine out yourself is often easier by lifting the body off the whole front subframe. Everything seems more in control than having the engine and gearbox in the air dangling at strange angles to get it in and out. I have done it both ways.
As an owner of a 320i that has had ££££'s spent on it, one thing I never did was swap the engine (although I almost went down the ETA route once). Originality aside I just never really saw the point. I've driven dozens of 325i's and tbf there's not a lot in it.. especially if you're used to modern cars, you'll think both are under powered. The one thing that used to get banded about alot, (particularly on the zone back in the day) was that 320's were not worth spending money on as no one wanted them and they were the lowly ridiculed E30 model. But as flybynite said, most of those enthusiasts who promoted that culture are gone, and the newbies just like the look of E30's in general rather than being picky about models.
As someone that works for a BMW specialist, I would say you will end up paying a fortune if you get a garage to remove and rebuild the engine. They will charge you an hourly rate for time taken, and that'll include time for the tech scratching his arse. Wait until you have the time and space and chip away at it yourself.
As someone that works for a BMW specialist, I would say you will end up paying a fortune if you get a garage to remove and rebuild the engine. They will charge you an hourly rate for time taken, and that'll include time for the tech scratching his arse. Wait until you have the time and space and chip away at it yourself.
I have a 1987 320i and have been in this situation, I went for an M20B25 swap and it gives a reasonable performance gain, but as said, both the B20 and B25 are not that quick by today's standards. It depends what you want the car to do for you, if you are happy with the B20 then just keep it in there and keep it original. When I did my first engine swap the value of run of the mill E30s was in the hundreds rather than thousands of pounds. I have since swapped the M20B25 for an M54, it's no longer original and that has likely affected it's value, but I'm not bothered really as I have no intention of ever selling it.
One last thing is I would say don't be afraid of an engine change or doing other work, these are simple cars to work on. I did my first engine swap over a (long) weekend on a driveway, get a couple of mates over to help and it should go pretty smoothly.
One last thing is I would say don't be afraid of an engine change or doing other work, these are simple cars to work on. I did my first engine swap over a (long) weekend on a driveway, get a couple of mates over to help and it should go pretty smoothly.
clarko74
Thanks to everyone for the replies some great advice and words of wisdom that have definitely given me something to think about.
I’m going to look for a garage/lockup to rent so I can get the car in there and spend some time without having to rush, after all the idea of this is that I wanted to do as much as possible myself and don’t ever plan on selling.
I’m going to look for a garage/lockup to rent so I can get the car in there and spend some time without having to rush, after all the idea of this is that I wanted to do as much as possible myself and don’t ever plan on selling.
I think I’m going to start by giving the engine/engine bay a good clean to remove all grime and muck from leaks etc so I can then see everything better and make life easier, any tips for this would be much appreciated, best degreasers/cleaners to use, anything to look out for, what not to do etc, thanks Matt