Electric sunroof not moving

[Grepot]

Hello zone.

Having another go at doing the headliner while the cars off the road for the time being.

Had a go at the sunroof first and broke the manual winder on the motor like an absolute neanderthal.

Was wondering if there's any way to move the sunroof around with the motor out of the car, or would it be a case of replacing and wiring in a new motor and going from there?

Update: the sunroof isn't stuck, just not able to slide back into the roof. It can only either go up or close. The electric motor and the manual bit can't move it back into the roof.

At this point I'm trying to figure out if I can disassemble it without having it slide back into the roof, since at the moment I'm stuck on the trim fasteners in the front.

Appreciate any help.

[Brianmoooore]

Trim is fastened to the front edge of the sunroof panel by about 5 push in buttons. They grip quite strongly, so you need to insert a tool with a slot in it either side of each button and leer them out.
With the trim out of the way, tilt the roof up and unscrew the six torx retaining bolts.
With the motor/gearbox removed, you should be able to move the roof by hand, but there's nothing to keep each side in sync with the other, so it has to be done carefully.

[Grepot]

Trim is fastened to the front edge of the sunroof panel by about 5 push in buttons. They grip quite strongly, so you need to insert a tool with a slot in it either side of each button and leer them out.
With the trim out of the way, tilt the roof up and unscrew the six torx retaining bolts.
With the motor/gearbox removed, you should be able to move the roof by hand, but there's nothing to keep each side in sync with the other, so it has to be done carefully.

I'm assuming something's happened with the roof itself rather than the motor now, since it seems to hang even if I go by hand whereas I could get the full range of motion out of it a month or so ago.

There's a bit of a gap at the front with the sunroof up so I'm just trying to work a trim tool in there at the moment so I can get at the clips.

Is it worth removing whatever screws I can access while it's tilted to try and disassemble it that way?

Appreciate the help

Update: ended up cutting the sunroof liner open to get access to the tabs from the inside, it was pretty quick to get rid of it from there. Suppose I can't back out of recovering it now

[Brianmoooore]

Six torx bolts hold the metal panel in place, and these are accessed with the trim panel removed and the roof tilted.
With the sunroof metal panel out of the way you should be able to work out what is wrong. Mech is held in place by numerous small self tapping screws accessed from above, holding two stainless steel plates in situ. Be extremely careful with these plates - their edges are razor sharp.

[Grepot]

Appreciate the help Brian.

Tops off now so it should be smooth sailing from here (hopefully).

Just been taking it apart and I'm left with the main mechanism. The runners seem to be misaligned slightly. How would I be able to manipulate the sides individually?

[Brianmoooore]

The cables are kept in sync by the drive gear of the motor/gearbox/microswitch assembly.
If you've got in this far, I'd take it all apart, including removing the cables from the guide tubes, clean off all the old, hardened grease and apply new.
There are small holes in the runners that line up with fixed holes for sync purposes, but I normally set the roof to full tilt manually, set the motor assembly to full tilt as well, then refit it.
If the cables were out of sync before you disassembled anything, either the drive gear or the cables may be damaged.
Make sure that the moving piece attached to the rear of the trim panel is all as it should be before reassembly. It is a water gutter that is pulled into position under the rear edge of the sunroof when it's closed, and is essential to stop water dripping into the cabin.

[Grepot]

Luckily the roof is pretty much clear from rust apart from where the torx screws were so I'm hoping that the roof was dealing with water alright as it was.

With the motor how can you tell where it is in the travel? I'm assuming it's something to do with the interlocked plastic wheel.

Also, do the silver railings just come apart once they're unscrewed or are there other fasteners? From what I can see on the diagrams it looks like some of the rails are screwed onto the cassette from underneath.

[Brianmoooore]

All screws are accessible with the sunroof metal panel removed. The plates are sealed with non setting mastic, and will have to be pulled free from this.
The roof isn't watertight now and wasn't when it was new. It's designed with a water gutter under all four sides when it's closed, with a pipe at each corner draining the water away.
Connect the motor back up electrically, and use the switch to set it in the tilt position. Press the button with the raised centre until it stops, to move it from the closed position to raised.

[Grepot]

Cheers for the help. As a last note, is there any way to get around spending approx £100 on the sunroof seals?

[Brianmoooore]

The one piece sunroof seal used to be significantly cheaper than the two piece one. All the cars I've dealt with have had the two piece seal from the factor so if want to keep it original, simply cut the one piece into two.
Do you need a new seal? If it looks OK, that's all that matters.

[Grepot]

It seemed alright when I had the panel off. To be honest, it's a pretty easy job to get the sunroof panel out so I don't think it'd be an issue replacing it down the line.

While I was taking the motor out I removed the worm from the gear and can't seem to make them connect up again. Is there any trick with rotating them together or does the worm need to be pressed back in with something like a vice?

Nevermind, just realized that there's two tabs in the motor that need to be depressed for the other piece to seat properly. No idea how you're meant to press these down while the worm piece is inside though.

[Brianmoooore]

Can't help you with reassembling the gearbox - I've never been into one that far. Played around with the microswitch and its cam, but never opened the actual gearbox, although most things are made to be assembled easily even if not meant to be taken apart.

[Grepot]

Decided to order a spare motor, comes with a switch and relay which is nice. Think it'll save me using the one I broke the manual winder on and tidy up the absolutely disgusting switch wires. Think there were 2 or 3 joins in one piece of wire.

Headliners in but not fully fastened and the sunroof is sorted, going to need to wait to see what it's like with the electric motor. One issue I have is that the mechanism seems to hang before going to the second state of tilting up, if that makes sense. Think it's a problem for another day though. Really appreciate the help Brian.

[Brianmoooore]

The roof should 'hang' if going from open to tilt or vice versa.
Why would anyone have been chopping the switch wiring?

[Grepot]

Yeah, it seems to just be a bit stiff occasionally. Not sure why since it's been aligned and moves between tilt and back into the roof without persuasion.

Also have absolutely no idea about the switch wires, enjoy this pic of it.

[Grepot]

Thought I'd post in here instead of starting a new thread.

Just got the new motor in and wired up. Seems to be all good, it doesn't get stuck at any point along the travel now.

My issue is that it doesn't seem to lock into any of the 3 stages either, so it won't lock into a closed position before moving on for example.

Wondering if anyone has any ideas on where I went wrong with the reassembly.

Also, as a side note I'm wondering how to do the black/red wire mod for my central locking. I understand the point is to eliminate the loop through the door. With the two wires which sides would I join together after they're cut?

Cheers.

[Brianmoooore]

Probably because the motor wasn't stopped at the full tilt position when you refitted it with the roof at full tilt.
Set the roof to full tilt, remove the motor, try another position where it stops, refit. Repeat until correct.
One of the red/black wires that goes to the A pillar plug comes from the locking ECU/ interior light delay module plugs, and the other commes from a loom that runs from the rear of the car along the RH sill. Cut both wires from the pillar plug and join them together, so that the wire from the rer of the car goes directly to the locking ECU and delay unit. The A pillar plug pins are abandoned and no longer used.

[Grepot]

Really appreciate the help Brian.

Got the sunroof fixed and central locking working today as per your advice. Never thought this day would come lol.

[Brianmoooore]