Redline

[BristolE30]

Hey guys

Be interested to hear some opinions. Do you think with stock E30’s (normal maintenance, no rebuild) it is okay to bring the car to redline rpm?

Or should our old cars be driven carefully now and with ease due to age. I know this does not apply to engine swaps, track cars etc

I often redline my 325i but have heard some people never dare now..

[flybynite]

Depends on who built the engine last and what it sounds like on the redline

[Lemon98]

Hey guys

Be interested to hear some opinions. Do you think with stock E30’s (normal maintenance, no rebuild) it is okay to bring the car to redline rpm?

Or should our old cars be driven carefully now and with ease due to age. I know this does not apply to engine swaps, track cars etc

I often redline my 325i but have heard some people never dare now..

I redline my 80k mile m20b20 fairly often with a raised limit from an ECU chip too. I see no reason why it would do any damage if the engine is healthy, has good quality oil in it and you aren't bouncing off the limiter for a prolonged time and overheating the oil etc. (moreso for me as my engine doesn't have an oil cooler) but my belief is that the car enjoys being pushed every now and then to really stretch her legs

But coming off a roundabout onto an A road or a motorway slip road I'll take it to redline in 2nd gear at ~6500-6700rpm

[Brianmoooore]

I ran my well over 200,000 mile 325 Touring on LPG. This has the side effect of removing the rev. limiter, which operates on the disused petrol injectors.
I've seen the rev. counter well past 7000 RPM in the lower gears on many occasions, when seeing off some little upstart driving some inferior brand of car.

[BristolE30]

Awesome good to hear.

@Lemon98 What chip have you gone for? I've been looking for a while, but the only one I've read is worthwhile is the MillarWAR one?

[Brianmoooore]

I've been looking for a while, but the only one I've read is worthwhile is the MillarWAR one?

Ask yourself this question: If it's that easy and the results are so good, why didn't BMW do it?

[martauto]

I've been looking for a while, but the only one I've read is worthwhile is the MillarWAR one?

Ask yourself this question: If it's that easy and the results are so good, why didn't BMW do it?

Mart.

[Lemon98]

Awesome good to hear.

@Lemon98 What chip have you gone for? I've been looking for a while, but the only one I've read is worthwhile is the MillarWAR one?

I got one from the forum here it's in the parts for sale section. I went for the mild but asked for the rev limit to be lowered to 6700 instead of 6900 but I'm not entirely convinced as the needle goes very close to 7k before stopping ahaha.

Here's the link viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421

I hadn't owned the car for more than a few weeks before I changed the chip so can't speak for there being an outstanding difference.


As for the "why didn't BMW do it" cars are tuned from factory to be able to operate in a massive range of temperatures and scenarios and to account for lower quality fuel so there is every reason to go for an upgraded chip. Have you seen the gains that are possible from tuning modern cars???? No one's expecting a 10bhp increase from a chip but smoothing out flat spots makes perfect sense in my book.

The car has run flawlessly since I put the chip in, more responsive and the power kicks in from around 4k instead of 5k like it used to. Very simple to change out yourself as well!! There's a good guide for it on the zone and also a couple of youtube vids.

Feel free to PM me if you want to ask anything else and I can send you a video of the car revving out to past 6500rpm

[Brianmoooore]

There's not a great deal of point in revving a standard engine much above its factory rev. limit, because it'll be well past the peak torque of the curve by that point, and performance will be better in the next gear up.

Here's the link viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421


As for the "why didn't BMW do it" cars are tuned from factory to be able to operate in a massive range of temperatures and scenarios and to account for lower quality fuel so there is every reason to go for an upgraded chip.

This is quite true, and I have posted such on here on multiple occasions, and for that reason, I have no qualms in advocating a modestly priced chip, promising modest gains, such as the ones in the link above.

Have you seen the gains that are possible from tuning modern cars????

Indeed I have, but this is mostly due to the original being electronically limited for emissions or reliability reasons. If the owner of the car installing such 'chip' is happy to drive a car that is illegal or has greatly reduced reliability, or both, then fine, but there's still no reason for such a 'chip' to cost more than a few pounds.

No one's expecting a 10bhp increase from a chip but smoothing out flat spots makes perfect sense in my book.

Fully agree, but make sure the "flat spots" aren't the result of a fault first.

[Lemon98]

I agree with what you're saying and that's why I asked for 6700 instead of 6900rpm as the limit. And yes while at 6700 the engine will be far past peak torque, brake horsepower is directly linked to rpm as you are having more power strokes in the same time (& yes obviously camshafts and head flow come into this when talking about volumetric efficiency) but a few hundred past factory will still give you more power. If my engine was much higher mileage then I wouldn't be as comfortable to rev it high as I'd worry about getting valve float. But I have been advised that a healthy M20 will cope with occasional visits to near 7000rpm.


Also torque from the next gear up all depends on the ratios of the gears and going from say 6200rpm to low 4000rpm in the next gear won't do you favours if peak torque is closer to 5000rpm. ie if the gap between the ratios is too large you will lose performance by changing into a higher gear if it puts you too far down in the rev range.
In my little 2 litre all the juice is up top from 4500rpm onwards really and the gearing isn't that short so I actually get more out of holding onto the gear.

I paid £40 for my chip and to me that's worth it.

I agree as well with making sure that the rest of the engine is running as optimally as possible first. That's why I did a full service on the car straight after I bought it. I also chose to go with a 'mild' chip and not a 'wild' one. A bit better throttle response and the higher limit made it goof value for money in my opinion.

[paultv]

I have a "mild" chip in my 2.5 and whilst it felt a little more lively at lower and mid range revs - I could not get the car to idle properly - it drove me mad - so I put the stock chip back for instant smooth idle once more - the chips still on the shelf - might try it again some time - all else was good - injectors cleaned blah blah - never understood why the idle map would be different.

Paul

[BristolE30]

I have a "mild" chip in my 2.5 and whilst it felt a little more lively at lower and mid range revs - I could not get the car to idle properly - it drove me mad - so I put the stock chip back for instant smooth idle once more - the chips still on the shelf - might try it again some time - all else was good - injectors cleaned blah blah - never understood why the idle map would be different.

Paul

I wonder if the owner/chip maker can chime in on this one? I’d be worried about messing up my idle. Speed touch isn’t it?

[BristolE30]

There's not a great deal of point in revving a standard engine much above its factory rev. limit, because it'll be well past the peak torque of the curve by that point, and performance will be better in the next gear up.

Here's the link viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421


As for the "why didn't BMW do it" cars are tuned from factory to be able to operate in a massive range of temperatures and scenarios and to account for lower quality fuel so there is every reason to go for an upgraded chip.

This is quite true, and I have posted such on here on multiple occasions, and for that reason, I have no qualms in advocating a modestly priced chip, promising modest gains, such as the ones in the link above.

Have you seen the gains that are possible from tuning modern cars????

Indeed I have, but this is mostly due to the original being electronically limited for emissions or reliability reasons. If the owner of the car installing such 'chip' is happy to drive a car that is illegal or has greatly reduced reliability, or both, then fine, but there's still no reason for such a 'chip' to cost more than a few pounds.

No one's expecting a 10bhp increase from a chip but smoothing out flat spots makes perfect sense in my book.

Fully agree, but make sure the "flat spots" aren't the result of a fault first.

Agree with you both, I’d only be looking to do it for efficiency and a slight more peppyness

[tha881]

I have a "mild" chip in my 2.5 and whilst it felt a little more lively at lower and mid range revs - I could not get the car to idle properly - it drove me mad - so I put the stock chip back for instant smooth idle once more - the chips still on the shelf - might try it again some time - all else was good - injectors cleaned blah blah - never understood why the idle map would be different.

Paul

I had this same issue, went back to factory chip. May try the mild one again soon as I have replaced a lot of parts since I tried it last time

[Lemon98]

I have a "mild" chip in my 2.5 and whilst it felt a little more lively at lower and mid range revs - I could not get the car to idle properly - it drove me mad - so I put the stock chip back for instant smooth idle once more - the chips still on the shelf - might try it again some time - all else was good - injectors cleaned blah blah - never understood why the idle map would be different.

Paul

I had this same issue, went back to factory chip. May try the mild one again soon as I have replaced a lot of parts since I tried it last time

Mine is from speedtouch and have no problems with the idle.

[paultv]

strange - I'm gonna test my chip again - it was always lumpy at idle, especially when cold - felt too lean to me.

Paul

[Brianmoooore]

You should have the gas sheets from your MOT tests, indicating what the idle mixture is likely to be.

[BristolE30]

You should have the gas sheets from your MOT tests, indicating what the idle mixture is likely to be.

My MOT idle mix says 0.035 at idle. Does that seem normal to you for these engines?

[tha881]

You should have the gas sheets from your MOT tests, indicating what the idle mixture is likely to be.

My mot was due in April! From memory it was running rich, especially around the time I tried the chip.

However last year i fitted a brand new amc head, cam, rockers etc. Everythings been replaced pretty much except the fuel pump, plug leads, icv and afm. But it's running lovely and i had it on an emissions tester after the rebuild to set it properly. So in theory if I plug the mild chip in now it should be fine.

To add though, there isn't really anything wrong with the standard map and I regularly get it up to 5.5k revs, theres no point keep hitting the limiter though in my opinion, only if your doing a top speed run

[tha881]

Lemon I had the mild chip on my 320i and it was brilliant, perfect idle and it definitely made a nice improvement. I must have tried the 325i one too soon before going over the intake system.

[Brianmoooore]

You should have the gas sheets from your MOT tests, indicating what the idle mixture is likely to be.

My MOT idle mix says 0.035 at idle. Does that seem normal to you for these engines?

Replied a few minutes ago in your thread. Short answer is not normal.

[BenHar]

I've been looking for a while, but the only one I've read is worthwhile is the MillarWAR one?

Ask yourself this question: If it's that easy and the results are so good, why didn't BMW do it?

Could say that about LPG too!

Ben

[Brianmoooore]

Could say that about LPG too!

Ben

BMW went down the hydrogen route, which has similar advantages, but that was killed off by lack of infrastructure to refuel. Making a bit of a comeback at the moment as part of hybrid electric vehicles.
LPG is far from dead as well. Dacia has just released a range of factory LPG powered models.

[rix313]

If kept serviced and only done when warm I feel it can have good benefits for en engine to make it rev high from time to time.

[Lemon98]

Lemon I had the mild chip on my 320i and it was brilliant, perfect idle and it definitely made a nice improvement. I must have tried the 325i one too soon before going over the intake system.

Quite possibly, mine runs like a dream (apart from when you open the throttle quickly from idle the car dies a bit BUT I am aware that there is a hole in the intake boot and I am attributing that behaviour to the extra air and not the ECU chip) - waiting to order a replacement hose.