Additional water pumps

[martauto]

1987 316 m10 Baur

Do all m10 engines have the additional water pumps ??
No 4 64111386507

http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E30-2 ... ater_hose/

Can I use something else to do whatever it is supposed to do please?

Mart.

[Brianmoooore]

64 21 1 370 807 will replace it entirely. Are you saying your car has the pump fitted?

[martauto]

64 21 1 370 807 will replace it entirely. Are you saying your car has the pump fitted?

It had one but it was totally knackered so I by-passed it

Mart.

[Brianmoooore]

Is your car UK spec.? The number of M10 engined E30s I've worked on is limited, but I'm certain none have ever had the electric pump fitted.
I'd assumed it was something for climes other that that found in the UK.

[martauto]

Is your car UK spec.? The number of M10 engined E30s I've worked on is limited, but I'm certain none have ever had the electric pump fitted.
I'd assumed it was something for climes other that that found in the UK.

I dont know that Brian, or how to find out if it was . When you say "climes other that that found in the UK." Where do you mean ?
The heater is crap and always has been but the pump has always been duff as well so I dont know for sure if all is OK in the heater box area, I do get some warm air but not alot.
She does not overheat at all and reaches half way temperature .

Cheers Mart.

[BristolE30]

Is your car UK spec.? The number of M10 engined E30s I've worked on is limited, but I'm certain none have ever had the electric pump fitted.
I'd assumed it was something for climes other that that found in the UK.

I dont know that Brian, or how to find out if it was . When you say "climes other that that found in the UK." Where do you mean ?
The heater is crap and always has been but the pump has always been duff as well so I dont know for sure if all is OK in the heater box area, I do get some warm air but not alot.
She does not overheat at all and reaches half way temperature .

Cheers Mart.

I’d replace it with the OEM if you can, it’s about £130 from Cotswold. I imagine your bad heat is due to not having it, I remember mine was crap until I replaced it with a working additional pump. A lot of people have said about the climate reason, however both of ours are clearly UK cars. I personally think they added it due to the poor efficiency of the system.

[30316]

Found this thread interesting as I always thought heating was not very efficient. I may consider retrofitting in my m10 engined car though I think some parts are probably NLA. For curiosity where do you fit it? At the back of cylinder head I guess. Also how do you power it and is there a wiring loom available since you can only make it run when the water is flowing and the heater valve is open?

[martauto]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUXILIARY-WA ... 3684558015

What do you think about using this ?
worth a punt ?

Mart.

[martauto]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUXILIARY-WA ... 3684558015

What do you think about using this ?
worth a punt ?

Mart.

Well I`m going to buy one. At least this way I will know if this is the solution to my crap heater and maybe look into a bmw one later, we will see how it lasts.
One for you Brian, what type of electrical plug do I need for this please ?
The original wires are brown and green/yellow.

Many thanks,

Mart.

[martauto]

Found this thread interesting as I always thought heating was not very efficient. I may consider retrofitting in my m10 engined car though I think some parts are probably NLA. For curiosity where do you fit it? At the back of cylinder head I guess. Also how do you power it and is there a wiring loom available since you can only make it run when the water is flowing and the heater valve is open?

The pump was on the bulkhead where you said behind the head and the wiring is a simple round plug with a brown and a yellow/green wire. The loom was there already, how it is controlled I don`t know but I am buying a cheaper pump to see if this is the issue so I will let you know.lol

Mart.

[Brianmoooore]

IF the pic. is of the actual pump and not just a generic one, then the plug is a common one used on later BMWs, and no doubt, many other makes, but it has indexing arrangements (grooves, notches, etc) to make sure it goes into the right socket. You'll have to head over to a VW Golf forum to make sure you get the exact one.
Polarity is important. Brown is negative and yellow/green is positive. Many of these sockets have a little + and - next to the pins at the bottom of the socket.

[martauto]

Do you know the name of the plugs as I can have a look around for these please?

Mart.

[BristolE30]

I was very very close to buying one of those Mart, think the E36 or something had a similar one.

Think the only reason I didn’t as Cotswold advised against, but probs should have anyway. It’s a very basic pump. You could probably cut the old connector off and connect wires straight to pins for testing

[BristolE30]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUXILIARY-WA ... 3684558015

What do you think about using this ?
worth a punt ?

Mart.

This is the one I nearly bought!

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 2819918717

[BristolE30]

Does have different pipe connectors I believe but I was going to take the bottom section from the old damaged pump and fit it on the new one. Or just clamp it down somehow

[martauto]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUXILIARY-WA ... 3684558015

What do you think about using this ?
worth a punt ?

Mart.

This is the one I nearly bought!

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 2819918717

I think they will work , maybe not for years but will let us know if it`s worth going the bmw way.

Did it work for you by the way ?

Mart.

[30316]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUXILIARY-WA ... 3684558015

What do you think about using this ?
worth a punt ?

Mart.

I wonder if these work like a shower pump i.e. they only work when the water is flowing with power permanently on?

If so then is there a difference between BMW one and the ebay one!

[martauto]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUXILIARY-WA ... 3684558015

What do you think about using this ?
worth a punt ?

Mart.

I wonder if these work like a shower pump i.e. they only work when the water is flowing with power permanently on?

If so then is there a difference between BMW one and the ebay one!

I`m guessing that the power is on permanently only when the engine is running.
I`m hoping the difference is @£100

Mart.

[martauto]

Well I have bought one of each of these to see if I can "cobble" the new pump into life as I dont know what exactly to look for .It`s a start.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-PIGTAIL-P ... 2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-Power ... 2749.l2649

Mart.

[Brianmoooore]

The purpose of an auxiliary electric water pump is to maintain heater performance when the engine is idling. That's why I was surprised to find one on a UK car where it doesn't get cold enough to justify such a system . I'm certain neither of the two M10 engined E30s I've owned had one, and the one that was my daily driver for a couple of years wasn't lacking in heater performance in any way that I can remember.
I can find no reference to the wiring of an auxiliary fan on an E30 on any wiring diagrams that I can find. Nothing, not even a fuse reference.
The presence of a non functioning pump will inhibit the flow to the heater somewhat, so I'd try removing it and connecting the hose ends together before investing too heavily in a replacement.

[martauto]

The purpose of an auxiliary electric water pump is to maintain heater performance when the engine is idling. That's why I was surprised to find one on a UK car where it doesn't get cold enough to justify such a system . I'm certain neither of the two M10 engined E30s I've owned had one, and the one that was my daily driver for a couple of years wasn't lacking in heater performance in any way that I can remember.
I can find no reference to the wiring of an auxiliary fan on an E30 on any wiring diagrams that I can find. Nothing, not even a fuse reference.
The presence of a non functioning pump will inhibit the flow to the heater somewhat, so I'd try removing it and connecting the hose ends together before investing too heavily in a replacement.

The wiring is there alright, and I did join the pipes together but to no avail. I have bought a cheaper pump and plugs all for about £30 so we will see if it makes a difference.
My last M10 316 had a superb heater but I cant remember if it had another pump.

Mart.

[martauto]

I had a closer look today and I was wrong about the wiring, being the round plug is too small a section of wire and would not have reached the pump anyway.
So I found a connector which is in the exact place which I seemed to have cable tied back a few moons ago.
It is an oblong plug @ 20mm x 10mm ,black, and splits so the round female connections can come apart revealing a white wire with black tracer and a white wire with brown tracer.
I just put the battery back on and put a meter on to the connector and checked with ignition live and not and we have power !!!!!!
Happy day`s (so far.lol)
Mart.

[Brianmoooore]

The white main colour indicates that the supply is indeed switched by the key in the full ignition position, and probably passes through unloader relay K5, which feeds fuses 16 and 17.
The wiring from fuse 17 is white/black which would be your positive wire at the plug, and the other wire, which has a brown tracer would be the negative, although if it was a wire straight to earth I would expect it to be solid brown - the brown tracer normally indicates some kind of switching device in the wire.
Unfortunately, the wiring from fuse 16 is white/brown - the only wire I know of on an E30 where the above rule doesn't apply! There is also a spare wire from fuse 16 shown in the wiring diagrams as 'not used', so this also could be the wire that appears at the plug.
Could you establish which wire is the positive, and whether pulling fuse 16 or 17 kills the power, please.

[martauto]

I have taken two pics ,both poor but you might get the idea.
I removed fuses 16 and 17 but still had voltage in both cases.
The positive was definately the wire with the black trace.

Mart.

plug2.jpg

plug1.jpg

[Brianmoooore]

If the white/black is the positive, then the white/brown must be the negative, and, as I said above, the solid colour with a brown tracer, usually applies to a wire that goes to earth via some kind of switch or other controller.
So does the power disappear if relay K5 is pulled? Or K7?
I take it the wire is dead with the ignition off? Live in switch position 1 or 2?

[30316]

Its possible that white/brown lead that Brian suggests is the negative this must somehow be linked to the hot/cold controller valve connection. The auxiliary pump can not be powered if the hot/cold setting is set to cold as the flow of water is then shut off.

[martauto]

Its possible that white/brown lead that Brian suggests is the negative this must somehow be linked to the hot/cold controller valve connection. The auxiliary pump can not be powered if the hot/cold setting is set to cold as the flow of water is then shut off.

Good point !!
When the bones are up to it I will check this out.

Mart.