Tech 1 Sport No Spark, No Start!!!!!

Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:26 pm

Hi All,
Recently my tech 1 sport has developed a problem were it won't start, it turns over fine just no spark, fuel is coming through to the injector rail fine, the garage have tried 2 ECU's, the rotor and dizzy are virtually new as well is the ignition coil, there is power to coil but no spark still, the garage have suggested to upgrade to motronic 1.3 to fix this problem but even this may not work?

Thoughts are welcome if you've had this problem before.

Thanks

Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:29 pm

This have the bell housing crank position sensors? IIRC, with one particular one failed, the fuel pump still works but the sparks don't.

Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:09 pm

Brianmoooore wrote:This have the bell housing crank position sensors? IIRC, with one particular one failed, the fuel pump still works but the sparks don't.

Hi,
Both of the sensors on the housing were changed with working ones but still no spark? the garage have now swapped the full system with the motronic 1,3 and still the same thing

Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:15 pm

TBH, I'd have great reservations about leaving the car with a garage that can't work out what is wrong with a system so simple as Motronic 1. Their electrical knowledge is clearly minimal.
Have they looked at the basics, such as is there 12 volts on the + terminal of the ignition coil with the ignition on and when cranking?

Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:44 pm

Brianmoooore wrote:TBH, I'd have great reservations about leaving the car with a garage that can't work out what is wrong with a system so simple as Motronic 1. Their electrical knowledge is clearly minimal.
Have they looked at the basics, such as is there 12 volts on the + terminal of the ignition coil with the ignition on and when cranking?

Hi,
All they told me was there is no spark anywhere, i tried the same ignition coil in a different car and it started in the other car.

Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:34 pm

Although it's much more sophisticated than your original management, 1.3 is even simpler, in that it has less components.
If the fuel pump runs when the engine is cranked (this needs to be confirmed beyond doubt), then there are only a very few possible reasons why you don't have sparks as well.
So called professionals suggesting the ECU is at fault should always be a warning sign of their lack of knowledge. They just don't fail, unless killed by some incompetent use of a MIG welder. Never seen a duff E30 coil either, although they seem popular in the US.
I've a Corsa sitting outside (son's first car) worth about a grand retail, which I bought on ebay for 170GBP recently. Non runner, that had been 'professionally' (probably Kwickfit) diagnosed as having a duff ECU.
"Duff ECU" was quickly found to be a loose plug into the instrument cluster.

Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:57 am

Brianmoooore wrote:Although it's much more sophisticated than your original management, 1.3 is even simpler, in that it has less components.
If the fuel pump runs when the engine is cranked (this needs to be confirmed beyond doubt), then there are only a very few possible reasons why you don't have sparks as well.
So called professionals suggesting the ECU is at fault should always be a warning sign of their lack of knowledge. They just don't fail, unless killed by some incompetent use of a MIG welder. Never seen a duff E30 coil either, although they seem popular in the US.
I've a Corsa sitting outside (son's first car) worth about a grand retail, which I bought on ebay for 170GBP recently. Non runner, that had been 'professionally' (probably Kwickfit) diagnosed as having a duff ECU.
"Duff ECU" was quickly found to be a loose plug into the instrument cluster.

Is there a area worth checking ? behind the instrument cluster? could it be a earth issue also?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:49 am

The electronics on the Corsa are light years ahead of the E30. All the bits on the Corsa communicate with each other, and problems in one area can have serious effects on apparently totally unrelated parts of the car.
The engine electronics on your E30 are almost totally self contained, with just the slightest communication with other car systems - in this case, just the road speed signal, the lack of which would only have minimal effects.
I've already stated where the diagnosis starts: Does the fuel pump definitely run run the engine is cranked, and is there 12 volts on the + terminal of the coil when the ignition is on and when cranking?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:19 pm

If youre not mechanically confident then its worth taking your time to try and understand and answer what Brian is asking.
As Brian has already stated, it seems your garage of choice isnt very confident when it comes to manually diagnosing a problem. They are almost certainly more used to plugging into cars and being led towards the fault by modern software.
Push the garage to answer in detail!

Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:36 pm

thanks for your replies, i will be seeing the garage tomorrow.

Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:47 pm

Brianmoooore wrote:The electronics on the Corsa are light years ahead of the E30. All the bits on the Corsa communicate with each other, and problems in one area can have serious effects on apparently totally unrelated parts of the car.
The engine electronics on your E30 are almost totally self contained, with just the slightest communication with other car systems - in this case, just the road speed signal, the lack of which would only have minimal effects.
I've already stated where the diagnosis starts: Does the fuel pump definitely run run the engine is cranked, and is there 12 volts on the + terminal of the coil when the ignition is on and when cranking?

12v is showing at the positive on coil when cranking, fuel pump can be heard once the engine is trying to crank.

Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:38 pm

Where was the "no sparks" diagnosis made? At the spark end of the plug leads, or by connecting a plug lead and plug directly to the king post of the coil?
If the former, the sparks could be getting lost in the distributor, but if the latter, then there are only a couple of unlikely things that could be wrong, if the coil and pump are being powered as you say. It could only be a faulty coil, a faulty ECU, or something wrong with the wire that runs from pin 1 of the ECU to the minus pin of the coil.

Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:24 pm

Brianmoooore wrote:Where was the "no sparks" diagnosis made? At the spark end of the plug leads, or by connecting a plug lead and plug directly to the king post of the coil?
If the former, the sparks could be getting lost in the distributor, but if the latter, then there are only a couple of unlikely things that could be wrong, if the coil and pump are being powered as you say. It could only be a faulty coil, a faulty ECU, or something wrong with the wire that runs from pin 1 of the ECU to the minus pin of the coil.

Hi,
The spark diagnosis was made by taking out the plug and connecting it to the lead and checking it off the rocker, there was no spark. The dizzy cap & rotor are virtually new, 2 ECU's have been tested in the car & it gave the same response, the wiring loom from ECU has been swapped and still the same.

This whole problem occurred after i filled up from BP, it's been giving me problems starting since then, can this be fuel related issue even though it has no spark?

Thanks

Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:28 pm

If you filled the car with diesel on a near empty tank, it's not going to run, and a plug with a coating of this filthy stuff might be reluctant to spark.
Pull the king lead from the distributor, hold the end (in insulated pliers) 1mm from the rocker cover, and crank the engine with the ignition on.

Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:43 pm

Brianmoooore wrote:If you filled the car with diesel on a near empty tank, it's not going to run, and a plug with a coating of this filthy stuff might be reluctant to spark.
Pull the king lead from the distributor, hold the end (in insulated pliers) 1mm from the rocker cover, and crank the engine with the ignition on.

It was a just above reserves when i fuelled up (£50), was petrol not diesel. We have did that still no spark, the plugs were slightly dirty than normal, but surely it would still run.

Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:46 pm

Are you saying it quit, as it wouldn't restart, immediately after filing up?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:04 pm

Brianmoooore wrote:Are you saying it quit, as it wouldn't restart, immediately after filing up?

It did start after i filled up, however it took a while to turn over than usual, also a few days after i was driving and it cut out, then after a few tries it came back into life, a few days later i didn't realise the fuel was low and clonked out, i then immediately fuelled up with a canister and again put £50 in, was starting fine till the day it just wouldn't start on me again? could this be a dodgy fuel pump as the garage did say it has some sort of aftermarket one on? but surely this can't cause the car to have no spark?

Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:28 pm

i know it is unlikely but have you checked over the LT side of the wiring, if i remember correctly, i had a problem once with my triumph where the LT was earthing to ground on the coil casing (bent spade clip). if everything is basically working. in my experience it will often be something very small and potentially obvious, that no one notices! Good luck.