1989 325i sport mtech II purchase query

[Ju55]

Hi,

I'm new to e30 zone and was after some advice about purchasing a e30 325i sport mtech II. The car is very similar to a current one on sale

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C833133

Does anyone think this is the correct price? Anyone think it's a sensible investment? If I purchase the car I would ideally keep it for the next 20+ years so making a profit isn't important. I'm after a prestine/concourse condition car so my budget is around the £19k mark.

I'm after a totally original car no modified stuff. Is there any tips to identify a original sport rather than one which someone has stuck M badges on?

[Brianmoooore]

The only way to confirm that it is a genuine 'Sport' is to take the VIN to any BMW dealer and ask them to confirm by looking up the original spec. What is written on the V5 is close to meaningless, and nothing on the 'Sport', except possibly the black headlining, was unique to that model. By ticking the appropriate options boxes when you ordered a 325i, you could have specified an identical car.

[Ju55]

Thanks for the advice. Any thoughts on the price of the example car in the link. Does it appear about right for a car in mint condition?

[minesapint]

Mint condition!!! 109,000miles!!! Had a respray!!! "No rot or blisters anywhere that I could see"!!!" The book has a good amount of stamps"!!! "The leather totally refurbished and the seats look almost as new"!!!

I have an 1986 325i cab I bought brand new, the only owner, 22,000 miles, totally totally totally original, no refurb anywhere, that I do not value near that price.

Wake-up man.

[Topblag]

You'll get a nice Alpina, an M3 or a very nice Hartge for that money. Sports are pretty rubbish and rust worse than non-body kit models, because of the body kit.

£19k on a sport is daft money.

You may not like what we are saying but it's very good advice.

[bss325i]

You'll get a nice Alpina, an M3 or a very nice Hartge for that money. Sports are pretty rubbish and rust worse than non-body kit models, because of the body kit.

£19k on a sport is daft money.

You may not like what we are saying but it's very good advice.

Show me where you can buy a nice E30 M3 for £19k and I'll buy every one!

Nice Alpina C2 2.7's are making up to £30k now and I can't remember the last time I saw a Hartge E30 for sale.

The market has moved on now and a nice sport is over £20k now but very few are nice and I doubt this one is either.

[bss325i]

Mint condition!!! 109,000miles!!! Had a respray!!! "No rot or blisters anywhere that I could see"!!!" The book has a good amount of stamps"!!! "The leather totally refurbished and the seats look almost as new"!!!

I have an 1986 325i cab I bought brand new, the only owner, 22,000 miles, totally totally totally original, no refurb anywhere, that I do not value near that price.

Wake-up man.

Don't sell yourself short man!

I would say that £19k is achievable for your car.

One thing though, like for like a 325i sport is worth more than a standard 325i cabrio.

[Carmo13]

Personally i think the price of the example car isnt far off, providing it is as clean as the seller is stating.
I would be having a very, very detailed look around the car. I would pobably have the car put on a ramp so i could have a proper look at the underside also.
For that money i would need to be 100% sure that all rust had been taken care of to a high standard.
I dont personally see the fact that it has had a respray as a negative at all. Any car that has actually been driven will need a refresh by this point.
109,000 is low milage for a 28 year old car that has been used properly, its only 3900 miles a year!!

[Carmo13]

You'll get a nice Alpina, an M3 or a very nice Hartge for that money. Sports are pretty rubbish and rust worse than non-body kit models, because of the body kit.

£19k on a sport is daft money.

You may not like what we are saying but it's very good advice.

Find me examples and i will happily be proven wrong but i think your prices are way off the mark.

[Ju55]

Personally i think the price of the example car isnt far off, providing it is as clean as the seller is stating.
I would be having a very, very detailed look around the car. I would pobably have the car put on a ramp so i could have a proper look at the underside also.
For that money i would need to be 100% sure that all rust had been taken care of to a high standard.
I dont personally see the fact that it has had a respray as a negative at all. Any car that has actually been driven will need a refresh by this point.
109,000 is low milage for a 28 year old car that has been used properly, its only 3900 miles a year!!

Thanks for the advice, appreciate it. The car has actually done 91k so its even better. The car will be throughly checked when I go and see it tomorrow. I've had the VIN checked at BMW and can the registration plate came up different to what's currently on the car (slightly worried now). Also the BMW spec sheet shows silver cloth seats but the car has cream leathers now, anything to worry about? Any thoughts?

[Topblag]

You'll get a nice Alpina, an M3 or a very nice Hartge for that money. Sports are pretty rubbish and rust worse than non-body kit models, because of the body kit.

£19k on a sport is daft money.

You may not like what we are saying but it's very good advice.

Show me where you can buy a nice E30 M3 for £19k and I'll buy every one!

Nice Alpina C2 2.7's are making up to £30k now and I can't remember the last time I saw a Hartge E30 for sale.

The market has moved on now and a nice sport is over £20k now but very few are nice and I doubt this one is either.

i didn't say you'd get a nice M3, just an M3. I didn't appreciate the values had risen so much, I must celebrate a˜€

[Carmo13]

Definitly worth investigating as you may have uncovered something a little dodgy.
I am trying to think of what it could mean:
Private Plate? (maybe, but then i expect even a private plate would be linked to the VIN of the car)
BodyShells could have been swapped? (does the VIN on the V5 match the VIN on the car?)
Seller provided the wrong VIN? (why and how?)

As far as the interior goes, many people swap them. The original cloth could have been in poor condition?

[Carmo13]

It goes without saying that you shouldnt buy the car if the VIN/reg problem cant be sorted.

[Brianmoooore]

A very high proportion of all BMWs have had more than one registration number in their time, so that in itself isn't a cause for concern, although you should do a few more checks, just in case.
The point you are missing though is that originality is everything when it comes to top valued cars. The ad. states that it has had paint and has a S.S. exhaust, and now you've found that the interior isn't original. All of these things may well 'improve' the car, but they still detract from its value at this level.

[Carmo13]

A very high proportion of all BMWs have had more than one registration number in their time, so that in itself isn't a cause for concern, although you should do a few more checks, just in case.
The point you are missing though is that originality is everything when it comes to top valued cars. The ad. states that it has had paint and has a S.S. exhaust, and now you've found that the interior isn't original. All of these things may well 'improve' the car, but they still detract from its value at this level.

I dont see why a high proportion of BMW's would have had more than one registration number, unless you mean that the type of people who buy them are likley to get private plates?

I do agree that originality is everything however i dont agree that a respray and a stainless exhaust would detract from a cars value.
A stainless exhaust is generally seen as an upgrade to any classic car, would you not agree?
Also personally i see a good quality paintwork as part of the maintenance of a classic car.
Would you pay more for a car with flat, faded and scratched original paint than a car with glossy, bright and unscratched non - original paint?

[bss325i]

You'll get a nice Alpina, an M3 or a very nice Hartge for that money. Sports are pretty rubbish and rust worse than non-body kit models, because of the body kit.

£19k on a sport is daft money.

You may not like what we are saying but it's very good advice.

Show me where you can buy a nice E30 M3 for £19k and I'll buy every one!

Nice Alpina C2 2.7's are making up to £30k now and I can't remember the last time I saw a Hartge E30 for sale.

The market has moved on now and a nice sport is over £20k now but very few are nice and I doubt this one is either.

i didn't say you'd get a nice M3, just an M3. I didn't appreciate the values had risen so much, I must celebrate a˜€

Ok find me any complete E30 M3 for £19k!

They are just not out there any more.

[Jesus325iTouring]

I dont see why a high proportion of BMW's would have had more than one registration number, unless you mean that the type of people who buy them are likley to get private plates?

This is quite right, my X5 is on it's 4th reg number. Lots of BMW owners like to waste money on private plates, mine currently has my wifes name it

3 other BMW's i've had have had reg number changes.

I've had more cars of different makes than I care to count but most were on original plates (As far as I could tell with history etc).

Brian is quite right with his statement.

[Brianmoooore]

unless you mean that the type of people who buy them are likley to get private plates?

Exactly what I mean.

Would you pay more for a car with flat, faded and scratched original paint than a car with glossy, bright and unscratched non - original paint?

No, but I (and the market) would pay more for glossy, bright and unscratched original paint.
There's also the point that you don't know what the glossy, bright and unscratched non original paint is hiding.

[ross_jsy]

I personally wouldn't buy a car that's had a full respray, let alone one up for £19k having seen the horrors a blow over can cover. Again, at that price point I would want an OEM mild steel exhaust. They last 20+ years.

How come it's suddenly lost nearly 20k miles compared to the advert? That's more than a typo.

You seem very sold on the car though.

[Ju55]

I personally wouldn't buy a car that's had a full respray, let alone one up for £19k having seen the horrors a blow over can cover. Again, at that price point I would want an OEM mild steel exhaust. They last 20+ years.

How come it's suddenly lost nearly 20k miles compared to the advert? That's more than a typo.

You seem very sold on the car though.

Just to clarify the car I'm going to look at tomorrow isn't the one in the link. I gave that as a example due to the price and colour etc as it was the nearest thing I could find on the current market. My desired car was quickly taken off the cars and classics website so I that track the seller down. I will ask him if I can put up a few pics of his car so you guys can see it's condition.

[magpie]

i like the general public , lets not argue amongst ourselves

[Carmo13]

Would you pay more for a car with flat, faded and scratched original paint than a car with glossy, bright and unscratched non - original paint?

No, but I (and the market) would pay more for glossy, bright and unscratched original paint.
There's also the point that you don't know what the glossy, bright and unscratched non original paint is hiding.[/quote]

Good point, i probably am too trusting that people will do the right thing a sort all problems out to a high level.

[Carmo13]

Personally i think the price of the example car isnt far off, providing it is as clean as the seller is stating.
I would be having a very, very detailed look around the car. I would pobably have the car put on a ramp so i could have a proper look at the underside also.
For that money i would need to be 100% sure that all rust had been taken care of to a high standard.
I dont personally see the fact that it has had a respray as a negative at all. Any car that has actually been driven will need a refresh by this point.
109,000 is low milage for a 28 year old car that has been used properly, its only 3900 miles a year!!

Thanks for the advice, appreciate it. The car has actually done 91k so its even better. The car will be throughly checked when I go and see it tomorrow. I've had the VIN checked at BMW and can the registration plate came up different to what's currently on the car (slightly worried now). Also the BMW spec sheet shows silver cloth seats but the car has cream leathers now, anything to worry about? Any thoughts?

Have you got the reg problem sorted?

[jcm325]

To be honest 19k is a lot for a 325 sport...Whilst I appreciate values are on the up personally I feel that 19k is at the top end of the market....for that money I would need a low owner low mileage car with a massive history file to support the condition....originality with any classic car is paramount and even if the modifications improve it they will detract in the long run...good luck with your purchase but please check any cars thoroughly especially at this price !!! As others have pointed out a shiny respray can hide a lot of horror stories.

[Ju55]

Personally i think the price of the example car isnt far off, providing it is as clean as the seller is stating.
I would be having a very, very detailed look around the car. I would pobably have the car put on a ramp so i could have a proper look at the underside also.
For that money i would need to be 100% sure that all rust had been taken care of to a high standard.
I dont personally see the fact that it has had a respray as a negative at all. Any car that has actually been driven will need a refresh by this point.
109,000 is low milage for a 28 year old car that has been used properly, its only 3900 miles a year!!

Thanks for the advice, appreciate it. The car has actually done 91k so its even better. The car will be throughly checked when I go and see it tomorrow. I've had the VIN checked at BMW and can the registration plate came up different to what's currently on the car (slightly worried now). Also the BMW spec sheet shows silver cloth seats but the car has cream leathers now, anything to worry about? Any thoughts?

Have you got the reg problem sorted?

Yes, got to the bottom of the reg problem. It's had a couple of private plates hence the reg change. All reflected in the paperwork.

[Ju55]

To be honest 19k is a lot for a 325 sport...Whilst I appreciate values are on the up personally I feel that 19k is at the top end of the market....for that money I would need a low owner low mileage car with a massive history file to support the condition....originality with any classic car is paramount and even if the modifications improve it they will detract in the long run...good luck with your purchase but please check any cars thoroughly especially at this price !!! As others have pointed out a shiny respray can hide a lot of horror stories.

Totally agree on your point for £19k I would expect low ownership for that price and total originality. I would be the 6th owner and 91k on the clock doesn't justify it for me. If you google "kgf bmw red 325i" this is the actual car I went to see.

Having throughly inspected the car on a snowy day (just my luck) I found the car had been repainted throughout the rear end and arches. the bonnet repaint wasn't exceptional as I had expected. Machanically seemed sound, small leak (expected that for a 28 year old car). Had the car running for about 20mins and took for a run but the temp gauge didn't reflect that, it was no where near half as I would have expected. When looking down the car to the back left wheel looked like it was pointing out strangely.

Dashboard dials had red needles which you normally see on the e30 m3s and had additional gauges underneath the heater controls. The boot is what surprised me as some the metal had been cut out to accommodate for speakers which had been removed now. After much deliberation I've decided it's not the car for me. Seems like it someone made it too boy racerish previously which another buyer sorted later down the line. Even though the service history was as thick as the yellow pages and extensive I don't think it's the car for me even though the seller said he would accept £15k not sure if it's worth the risk.

[jcm325]

I think you are right to walk away, if you feel it's not right then it's probably not!!! I have not seen the car so can't comment specifically but I see more and more e30s advertised at big prices but how many are actually selling for these high prices? You said the owner was prepared to drop to 15k that's a long way from 19k!!! Be patient the right car will come along there are still plenty of nice cars about.
Also don't get to hung up on the whole sport thing after all its only a trim level if we're being honest and personally if I was spending 19k I'd go for a tech1 sport over a tech2 as I think they are much rarer and possibly a better future investment??

[driftmaster808]

if its so good like the seller advertised it then surely he would hold out rather than dropping over 20% just like that.

The staggering continued price increases for M3's is pulling up prices across the rest of the range with the 325i sport and motorsport convertibles being affected the most.

19k will get you something nice and original, you just need to stay patient but there will be the odd one that come up for sale this year that fits your criteria.

I notice the white 325i sport at anglia car auctions sold for a mouth watering £18K plus.

[StuB]

Ju55 - any updates? Did you buy it?

Edit: Just found second page of the thread, oops. Ignore me! Was just curious as I own a similar car but in original condition.