210bhp ath the wheels

[maxfield]

My Evo2 (standard) with Bexleys chip has 176BHP at the road wheels,

My Sport Evo (standard except some numpty fitted a 2.3 crank so much lower compression........urbo anyone?) has 178BHP at the wheels.

I usually calculate about 20% losses.

210BHP at the wheels is very, very good. There are other modded 2.5 s14's that "only" have abiut 190-195BHP at the wheels.

210rwhp is good and rebuild with other stuff. should be a very fast road car

[M5pilot]

TDi in Essex?

Never made the effort to go there after I was talked down to over the phone because I had an E30.

[Demlotcrew]

My Evo2 (standard) with Bexleys chip has 176BHP at the road wheels,

My Sport Evo (standard except some numpty fitted a 2.3 crank so much lower compression........urbo anyone?) has 178BHP at the wheels.

I usually calculate about 20% losses.

210BHP at the wheels is very, very good. There are other modded 2.5 s14's that "only" have abiut 190-195BHP at the wheels.

I would agree with these figures.

I would love to claim I have 210 at the wheels with a filter (which wont do shit on a S14) and a EMS. (From the pics it looks like a decent EMS, so it will yield some gains)

Transmission loss can be different from car to car with the same specs. And its not only limited to tire pressures.

Andrew

[maxfield]

TDi in Essex?

Never made the effort to go there after I was talked down to over the phone because I had an E30.

Yeah at lakeside or behind it

[Chaos]

some body, well a few others on this forum told me you never give up a "discussion" and alway like to get the final word, this seems to be true!!
anyway power engineering rollers were pretty good, and the do look after them, having been re calibrated recently. some of their work has been very very good, some of the RS turbo's over the years have been bloody fantastic, they built my mates one about 8 years ago, its still going strong and putting down 200 at the wheels, never fucked up, ever!! not every one likes them because of their arrogant attitude, the think they are right about everything.........hey that sounds familiar!!

nothing wrong with getting the final word if your right.
if proven wrong i will happily admit it and apologise - which is more than most ppl will.

PE rollers have been well known to give inflated figures over a majority of others throughout the uk car forums, and their work is also known to be generally shoddy etc - tho yes ur right that with certain cars theyre sposed to be pretty good eg rst.

so you agree that the only way to get and exact engine power output if from an engine dyno, why do you then state the 17% theory if its in accurate and impossible to then work out an accurate flywheel power figure when there are many varialbes such as gearbox, final drive, flywheel, tyres. nothing is impossible, even you being wrong!

i said its an average figure - or can u not read properly ?
this is taken from engines run on bench dynos and then rr's etc.
and is taken from specialist websites and direct from motor engineers (like 3 of my uncles) eg ppl who would know.


have a read of these sites.

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk
http://www.wrc-tech.co.uk/services-rolling-road-faq.htm
http://yarchive.net/car/dyno_accuracy.html


maxfields figures are using a hub dyno - anyone know by roughly how much the figures on these differ from a "normal" rolling road ?

ps have TDi moved ???
they used to be nr Barking not down at Lakeside.

[maxfield]

Yeah they'e moved. It's alot bigger to the one at barking.

[Kos]

TDi in Essex?

Never made the effort to go there after I was talked down to over the phone because I had an E30.

they think us e30 owners have no money, i will disagree. advise over the phone and general manner vey poor, they had waranty on their product which they dont cover!!!
they are in bed with alot of companies and dont necessarily use the bert products available to a tuner.

[Kos]

PE rollers have been well known to give inflated figures over a majority of others throughout the uk car forums, and their work is also known to be generally shoddy etc - tho yes ur right that with certain cars theyre sposed to be pretty good eg rst.

so you agree that the only way to get and exact engine power output if from an engine dyno, why do you then state the 17% theory if its in accurate and impossible to then work out an accurate flywheel power figure when there are many varialbes such as gearbox, final drive, flywheel, tyres. nothing is impossible, even you being wrong!

i said its an average figure - or can u not read properly ?
this is taken from engines run on bench dynos and then rr's etc.
and is taken from specialist websites and direct from motor engineers (like 3 of my uncles) eg ppl who would know.


have a read of these sites.

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk
http://www.wrc-tech.co.uk/services-rolling-road-faq.htm
http://yarchive.net/car/dyno_accuracy.html

i can read thanks, have read them, but in my experience i've seen 10% somtimes 13% loss in transmition
mates cossie was on the rollers at PE recently, made 369 at the wheels, it was on an engine dyno 6 monthas ago and made 412, that works out to be just about a 11% loss in transmition

[ShepsEvo3]

There could have been some wheel spin though

[maxfield]

How do you mean by wheel spin?

[Kos]

maybe, but it would regiter less power then?? i know the 2wd RR maxs out around 400hp at PE. he has got a brutal engine, if it ran 8 injectors it would be good for 500hp.

[Kos]

How do you mean by wheel spin?

big power cars, mainly turbo 2wd motors can spin the wheels on the rollers as a cas would do on the road. also the can lift off the rollers. when i had my M3 on the rollers it produce so much torque it lifted so 2 of us sat in the boot to weigh it down!! most people tend to have heavy duty straps to hold a car down!!!!

scary experience

[Demlotcrew]

maxfields figures are using a hub dyno - anyone know by roughly how much the figures on these differ from a "normal" rolling road ?

Why dont you ring up the three uncles you have who would know?

Andrew

[maxfield]

How do you mean by wheel spin?

big power cars, mainly turbo 2wd motors can spin the wheels on the rollers as a cas would do on the road. also the can lift off the rollers. when i had my M3 on the rollers it produce so much torque it lifted so 2 of us sat in the boot to weigh it down!! most people tend to have heavy duty straps to hold a car down!!!!

scary experience

ah i see what you mean

[Chaos]

maxfields figures are using a hub dyno - anyone know by roughly how much the figures on these differ from a "normal" rolling road ?

Why dont you ring up the three uncles you have who would know?

Andrew

very helpful andrew


digs at ppl who dont own e30's
digs at ppl asking tech questions.

and from someone who is supposed to be a mod - well you really are a prick arent u.

[dsio]

How do you mean by wheel spin?

big power cars, mainly turbo 2wd motors can spin the wheels on the rollers as a cas would do on the road. also the can lift off the rollers. when i had my M3 on the rollers it produce so much torque it lifted so 2 of us sat in the boot to weigh it down!! most people tend to have heavy duty straps to hold a car down!!!!

scary experience

The sitting on the boot method is not the best of ideas... I watched a mate do it on his old as hell engine, big as hell turbo RX7. Sitting there with his legs dangling either side of the exhaust, and the whole muffler / exhaust exploded as the car backfired and blew burning shrapnel all over garage and the back of his legs.

Thats Japanese cars. All fun and games until someone gets 2nd degree burns.

Many rolling road joints don't exactly hold safety in high regard ;)

[Simon13]

here we go!

have u ever heard the saying

sticks and stones my break my bones but names will never harm me?

in your case a very large stick would be needed!

[Chaos]

The sitting on the boot method is not the best of ideas... I watched a mate do it on his old as hell engine, big as hell turbo RX7. Sitting there with his legs dangling either side of the exhaust, and the whole muffler / exhaust exploded as the car backfired and blew burning shrapnel all over garage and the back of his legs.

Thats Japanese cars. All fun and games until someone gets 2nd degree burns.

Many rolling road joints don't exactly hold safety in high regard ;)

sh*t not good m8, ive done the sitting in the boot thing several times now - might think twice about doing it again.

[Chaos]

in your case a very large stick would be needed!

please dont start with the personal digs again simon - and dont get involved in summit that has nothing to do with u.

[Simon13]

is that because u dented the boot big fella?!

[Demlotcrew]

Right not jokes about Chaos sitting in a boot

Andrew

[dsio]

Theres a great video of a twin turbo V8 Giocattolo with 4 blokes sitting on the back, soiling their collective jocks as the thing backfired.

That is exactly what happened, only instead of just big flames, the whole exhaust came out as well

Have a look at this video: http://www.giocattolo.com.au/videos/Gio ... 20dyno.mpg

[Simon13]

ok sorry, but Chaos u leave your humour somewhere else on the computer sometimes!

[Chaos]

ok sorry, but Chaos u leave your humour somewhere else on the computer sometimes!

sometimes yeah maybe.
but "fat jokes" arent that funny tbh.

sorry but i felt andrew was being out of order - digs at someone cos the car is his dads and then digs at me cos i asked a question. i dont think thats on from a moderator.

lets just drop it.

[pacerpete]

Yeah fat jokes aren't funny !!!, How is a man supposed to get skinny if Lidl are doing bogofs on Haagen daaz and Mcdonalds are giving away books of get one free vouchers.
With british gas planning 25% price hikes fat is where its at !

[Chaos]

Yeah fat jokes aren't funny !!!, How is a man supposed to get skinny if Lidl are doing bogofs on Haagen daaz and Mcdonalds are giving away books of get one free vouchers.
With british gas planning 25% price hikes fat is where its at !

idiot

lol

[Demlotcrew]

Chaos shut up will you! your such a drama queen, i didnÔš't have digs at no one! ThatÔš's all you think people are doing, I asked if he had a E30 thats all? then all i said to you was why dont you ask your uncles who like you said are people who know.

Whats there to dig about that?

Andrew

[maxfield]

Im learning quite a bit from this thread keep the info coming.

[herman]

This is getting better, well done maxfield, your threads get a lot of hits.

[M3Pilot]

Here is a comparison for you, My 2.5L Sport Evo with Schrick 284/276 cams, CF airbox and Maxx Alpha N is doing about 200 RWHP which was about 250@crank on Bexleys dyno.

To be honest I would be surprised if the car it putting that much to the wheels . Maybe I should get my dynoed there and see how it comes out.

But it's all numbers at the end of the day and how the car feels are drives is a much better indication.

[maxfield]

I personally don't know if its true or not i don't have any evidence.
Maybe the dyno is rong and saying its a higher reading.
i guess my dad will get it on a RR somewhere else to see what its putting out at the crank.

[Kos]

i guess my dad will get it on a RR somewhere else to see what its putting out at the crank.

rolling road will not give a figuer at the crank, you not read this thred??

the only way to get an accurate crank figure is by having the engine on a dyno (its physically removerd from the car and set up in a dyno cell and run from a controll room)

that why we are all "discussing" the transmition losses and calculating figures from wheel HP to crank HP and no way is accurate