e30 sport

[mattmk1]

I have to admit i dont understand the 'Genuine BMW' thing.

A manufacturer will have a 10 or 15 year requirement to continue supplying 'OEM' parts to a manufacturer. These are parts that have come from tooling paid for and owned by BMW.

If E30 stopped production in 1993, we are long past that cut off date.

The OEM wont have left that tooling set up in the corner of a factory so that they can dust it down and produce the odd exhaust every 18 months.

Your hopes are:
1. Finding an exhaust stashed in the corner of a warehouse/stockroom.

If you pay the above and order from BMW, the likelihood is that the original tooling will have been sold off by the OEM, and probably now resides in China or at an aftermarket parts supplier (probably why ECP stopped selling boysen. Boysen will have turned their attention to the next models in the BMW product lineup).

I genuinely wouldnt be surprised if you order the above, and it comes through with all the BMW stamps etc, as its from the original tool, but the quality might be crap anyway as the tool will have been used by a aftermarket parts provider with cheaper materials etc.

So i never really understand the hype over a 'genuine' part on a car thats 25 years old.

And i work for a car manufacturer.

[bss325i]

Well that depends on who is currently making the part for BMW.

[mattmk1]

True, all i know is it certainly wouldnt make sense for it to still be boysen!

[bss325i]

Why not? Lemforder still make E30 suspension parts for BMW.

[zaust]

If I was looking at o/e type replacement I would go for the Ansa replacement and if you want a throaty sound then there sport range is very good.

[mattmk1]

Why not? Lemforder still make E30 suspension parts for BMW.

Exhausts require rustproofing and take up considerable space to store, demand is very low, tooling required to make them is huge, and that space on the factory floor is more profitably used elsewhere. And i may be wrong but most of Boysens custom is through OEM supply rather than aftermarket.

Lemforder & their parts are typically the opposite.

Im not saying im 100% right, i just dont see the appeal of 'genuine BMW' parts at silly prices, as i dont think they hold a great advantage over what is available aftermarket.

[Jon_Bmw]

Why not? Lemforder still make E30 suspension parts for BMW.

But do they? Or is it a sub supplier acting on behalf of Lemforder? No one truly knows.

There was a motto I heard from an NPI engineer once before...

"Spares, who cares" basically in reference to not being too bothered about the quality of parts as long as they were not line fit.

Then imagine 25 years down the line when the tooling is all wanked out because it hasn't been stored properly, the guy doing the job has never done one before. The painting process might not exist anymore, the original drawings no one can read because they are covered in dust/grime/not available. All the little in process improvements have been forgotten about as it was 25 years ago...The checking fixture is MIA, and they certainly arn't going to CMM each one!

Fundamentally the design will be robust, but christ knows if you will get that design 25 years later.

[minesapint]

I have to admit i dont understand the 'Genuine BMW' thing.

A manufacturer will have a 10 or 15 year requirement to continue supplying 'OEM' parts to a manufacturer. These are parts that have come from tooling paid for and owned by BMW.

If E30 stopped production in 1993, we are long past that cut off date.

The OEM wont have left that tooling set up in the corner of a factory so that they can dust it down and produce the odd exhaust every 18 months.

Your hopes are:
1. Finding an exhaust stashed in the corner of a warehouse/stockroom.

If you pay the above and order from BMW, the likelihood is that the original tooling will have been sold off by the OEM, and probably now resides in China or at an aftermarket parts supplier (probably why ECP stopped selling boysen. Boysen will have turned their attention to the next models in the BMW product lineup).

I genuinely wouldnt be surprised if you order the above, and it comes through with all the BMW stamps etc, as its from the original tool, but the quality might be crap anyway as the tool will have been used by a aftermarket parts provider with cheaper materials etc.

So i never really understand the hype over a 'genuine' part on a car thats 25 years old.

And i work for a car manufacturer.

A very interesting viewpoint, and one which makes an awful lot of sense.
These last half dozen replies have turned this into an extremely interesting topic.......one which is close to all our hearts when trying to keep our vehicles as original as we can. I often feel when I walk into my local dealers that we are paying top prices for parts which I suspect fit with mattmk1's theory.
I posted a tongue-in-check topic the other week re Mahle v BMW oil filters, which falls into this discussion.

bss325i thank you for your information re the twin pipes, got email from Cotswolds this morning saying the same (the pictures are generic).......but they do not know the manufacturer of the exhaust systems!!

We've also got to look at this topic with our hand on our cheque books........£1218 for a mild steel exhaust, of unknown manufacture, come on, a full stainless is half that price.
I've also been having a very close look at the systems from ECP, yes I know they are not as heavy gauge as the originals by any means, but I've made some templates and have inspected one with my calipers etc and they are an exact copy.....on the outside, you can buy 5 of their systems for the price of one BMW (OEM supposedly) and quite frankly if one was painted up and fitted you'd have a job to tell them apart. Not saying I would do, but food for thought re this discussion.
Thank you all for contributions keep them coming.

[jimbom30cab]

I might get one of these and see how good or not they actually are

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130436735592? ... 26_rdc%3D1

If they are good, i'll buy them all and resell at £400 each

[Blitz]

I might get one of these and see how good or not they actually are

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130436735592? ... 26_rdc%3D1

If they are good, i'll buy them all and resell at £400 each

The tail pipes look too skinny.

[darkchild]

I've also been having a very close look at the systems from ECP, yes I know they are not as heavy gauge as the originals by any means, but I've made some templates and have inspected one with my calipers etc and they are an exact copy.....on the outside, you can buy 5 of their systems for the price of one BMW (OEM supposedly) and quite frankly if one was painted up and fitted you'd have a job to tell them apart. Not saying I would do, but food for thought re this discussion.

The ECP ones are Klarius (previously Timax). They are complete sh!te. You'll lose power, they sound poor and you'll be replacing it in 2 and a bit years. I had one on my old E36 that replaced the original BMW exhaust. It was tinny and had an awful drone and lasted about 1 week outside it's 2 year warranty.

[bss325i]

As has been said by dark child, the non genuine ones by timax, bosal etc do not sound or perform the same as the oem systems even when they are 20+ years old. This experience comes from working on and owning many E30's with all kinds of exhausts.

The aftermarket stuff is just junk in comparison.

I checked today if the rear silencer was uk stock or Germany as if it's uk then I can order it in to my dealer and not buy it and they send it back. If it was a Germany order then it's not going back. I was told they had one left in the uk.

Purpose of this? To check who the manufacturer is by what's stamped into the part.

[bss325i]

Im not saying im 100% right, i just dont see the appeal of 'genuine BMW' parts at silly prices, as i dont think they hold a great advantage over what is available aftermarket.

There are countless times where the aftermarket part is poor in comparison to the OE part.

I'm not saying stick with genuine parts all the way but in many instances only a genuine part will do and that comes from years of experience working on bmws for a living.

[PG325]

I might get one of these and see how good or not they actually are

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130436735592? ... 26_rdc%3D1

If they are good, i'll buy them all and resell at £400 each

I got an email from that supplier confirming these were made by a company called Walker.

[daviekiwi]

I think its amazing that bmw are still supplying so many parts for classic bmws.
I suppose they can charge what they want!
i have got many parts for my e10 and e30 for reasonable money from dealer,
try getting parts for classic pug, ford or Vauxhall from dealer!

[jimbom30cab]

http://www.walkerexhaust.com/

[jimbom30cab]

http://www.walkerexhaust.com/catalog/wa ... log-lookup

[jimbom30cab]

Walker is one of the biggest and most important Original Equipment (OE) exhaust manufacturers in the world, with Original Equipment and After Market (AM) manufacturing plants placed worldwide.

Due to Walkers OE experience (more than 80% of the total production is OE) Walker is able to use the latest technology available for the production of the After Market line ensuring the highest levels of quality and technology in all our designs. This technology ensures that all Walker products are designed with the right back-pressure and noise levels, being equal to those present at the Original Equipment units.
In order to certify this quality standards Walker AM exhaust offer (exhaust and catalytic converters) is fully homologated following all the requirements of the most strict government environmental laws.

With Walker® homologated exhaust systems the engine will always maintain its maximum performance level with the minimum consumption. Wrong back-pressure levels present in all of non-homologated exhausts also causes small losses of petrol and oxygen in each intake stroke, producing consequently losses of power and increase of consumption of the vehicle.

Walker® products also protect the job of the installers ensuring the legality of the exhaust parts installed in the vehicle. The use of non-homologated exhaust systems is prohibited and illegal in most of the countries of the European community and the installation of them is penalized by the local authorities.

Walker® exhaust produces all the AM exhaust with a double layer of aluminized steel, being the homologated competitors AM offer only a single layer of aluminized steel. This allows Walker to give a superior warranty period and ensure the end users a longer life time period of the product compared to any of our actual competitors in the aftermarket.

Last but not least, the fact that Walker® is present worldwide at OE and AM platforms gives a competitive advantage in terms of coverage, new developments and market knowledge that is always beneficial to our AM distribution channel.

[bss325i]

Walker are scrap on par with timax and bosal.

[jimbom30cab]

[minesapint]

As has been said by dark child, the non genuine ones by timax, bosal etc do not sound or perform the same as the oem systems even when they are 20+ years old. This experience comes from working on and owning many E30's with all kinds of exhausts.

The aftermarket stuff is just junk in comparison.

I checked today if the rear silencer was uk stock or Germany as if it's uk then I can order it in to my dealer and not buy it and they send it back. If it was a Germany order then it's not going back. I was told they had one left in the uk.

Purpose of this? To check who the manufacturer is by what's stamped into the part.

This will answer a lot of questions, when do you expect you'll have sight of it?

[darkchild]

I once had a Walker backbox on an E30. It wasn't too bad in all honesty, a lot better than Timax. It didn't have that OE rasp but fitted ok from what I remember. It lasted about 7 years but was absolutely hanging by the end. In comparison, the original exhaust lasted 18.5 years.

It's a shame ECP don't stock Eberspacher anymore. They had two different exhausts for 6 cylinder E30s until about 12 months ago. Whilst I can't vouch for the cheaper one they sold, the more expensive part was a nicely made bit of kit. I think the silencer was about £200.

[Andyboy]

Bollocks to 1200 quid. Just get the old rusty system copied in mild steel by a good exhaust maker such as BTB, asking for proper silencer cores and wire wool packing plus nice thick steel. 6-700 should be plenty.

[Andyboy]

Walker are scrap on par with timax and bosal.

Yep. But not all cheap exhausts are shit. I put a cheapy Italian back box on that white B plate 320i a few years ago and it was very nicely made, fitted perfectly and sounded sweet. It came from ECP but I can't recall the brand. I'll see if I can find out. The back box was about 40 quid.

[pacerpete]

Bollocks to 1200 quid. Just get the old rusty system copied in mild steel by a good exhaust maker such as BTB, asking for proper silencer cores and wire wool packing plus nice thick steel. 6-700 should be plenty.

For £6-700 BTB might make you a set of rear box straps !

[ross_jsy]

BTB seem to have taken up a coke and hookers diet of late. Their prices are ridiculous

[bosers]

Just seen an e30 exhaust advertised on Amazon from a company called Greggson. Never heard of them but blurb sounded ok.

[Blitz]

I've heard good things about Imasaf

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw= ... 0&_sacat=0

[Andyboy]

BTB seem to have taken up a coke and hookers diet of late. Their prices are ridiculous

Didn't know Pete had bought them out?

[Brianmoooore]

Just seen an e30 exhaust advertised on Amazon from a company called Greggson. Never heard of them but blurb sounded ok.

about two pages ago.


Clicking on the link in the recent "wood trim" thread led me to this: I know absolutely nothing about it, other than it's mild steel and reassuringly expensive.

[minesapint]

Just seen an e30 exhaust advertised on Amazon from a company called Greggson. Never heard of them but blurb sounded ok.

about two pages ago.


Clicking on the link in the recent "wood trim" thread led me to this: I know absolutely nothing about it, other than it's mild steel and reassuringly expensive.

The problem with this is no one knows anything of the quality or design, and because it's reassuringly expensive doesn't make it a top piece of kit.
Also what about all the technical stuff you've been posting about systems being matched to the engine, manifold, the torque and power curves, the BMW "sound" etc etc
I see this as great a gamble than the systems from ECP.
And those tail tips look very council to me.

[Brianmoooore]

The "technical stuff" posted is just sales bullsh*t from the manufacturer - never listen to recommendations from someone who's trying to sell you what they're recommending. Listen to the reviews of (independent) others.
The only way we're going to find out if this is any good is for someone to buy and try one. Any volunteers?

[minesapint]

As has been said by dark child, the non genuine ones by timax, bosal etc do not sound or perform the same as the oem systems even when they are 20+ years old. This experience comes from working on and owning many E30's with all kinds of exhausts.

The aftermarket stuff is just junk in comparison.

I checked today if the rear silencer was uk stock or Germany as if it's uk then I can order it in to my dealer and not buy it and they send it back. If it was a Germany order then it's not going back. I was told they had one left in the uk.

Purpose of this? To check who the manufacturer is by what's stamped into the part.

Would you mind taking and posting some photos when you can, so we can all see what we'd get for our money.
Thanks

[bss325i]

As has been said by dark child, the non genuine ones by timax, bosal etc do not sound or perform the same as the oem systems even when they are 20+ years old. This experience comes from working on and owning many E30's with all kinds of exhausts.

The aftermarket stuff is just junk in comparison.

I checked today if the rear silencer was uk stock or Germany as if it's uk then I can order it in to my dealer and not buy it and they send it back. If it was a Germany order then it's not going back. I was told they had one left in the uk.

Purpose of this? To check who the manufacturer is by what's stamped into the part.

Would you mind taking and posting some photos when you can, so we can all see what we'd get for our money.
Thanks

Yes i will try and sort it this week.

[jimbom30cab]

Looking forward to this.

Hope your parts monkey gets the order right