Hi, i am currently in the process of building an e30 with a m60b40 , As is well known braking can be a hassle so i have decided to install a pedal box thats for a mk1 escort rally car,
Its the bias setup which will allow to adjust braking from front to rear,
I am after a bit of info on the setup please, has anyone here done this install?,are there any photos that could give me a heads up ?
Any info would be appreciated
Cheers Mo
mk1 escort pedal box
Moderator: martauto
Pedal boxes aren't always made for specific cars, unless the one you're on about is directly for a Mk1 Escort? Either way there will be some fabrication required, brake pipes, clutch pipes and throttle cable to make.
Also with regards to removing th servo poses a grey area regarding MOT.
Also with regards to removing th servo poses a grey area regarding MOT.
Hi,thanks for the reply,
Yes this is for a mk1 escort,yes fabrication is required and will be done,
I have chosen this one through advice from rally car builders here in northern ireland,It will involve a bit of faffing about so that's why i am after a few pictures of someones else's ideas,
The MOT issue hopefully will not be an issue as all the rally cars have valid MOT'S here
Yes this is for a mk1 escort,yes fabrication is required and will be done,
I have chosen this one through advice from rally car builders here in northern ireland,It will involve a bit of faffing about so that's why i am after a few pictures of someones else's ideas,
The MOT issue hopefully will not be an issue as all the rally cars have valid MOT'S here
Unfortunately I can't help with pics, well I haven't got any pics of a pedal box I've fitted to an E30. But I'm sure someone will be a long to help.
With regards to MOT, the manual states that if a servo was fitted at factory, if removed it's a fail. But then it also states that road registered rally cars are allowed to run no servo. Like I said grey area.
With regards to MOT, the manual states that if a servo was fitted at factory, if removed it's a fail. But then it also states that road registered rally cars are allowed to run no servo. Like I said grey area.
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ross_jsy
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If you are smart with fab, you could make something like this:
I sold it a couple of years back, but it was made by one of the local rally heroes and is a modified e30 pedal box to take twin m/c's and had an adjustable bias bar.
I wouldn't consider a pedal box for a road car though.
I sold it a couple of years back, but it was made by one of the local rally heroes and is a modified e30 pedal box to take twin m/c's and had an adjustable bias bar.
I wouldn't consider a pedal box for a road car though.
Hi Ross, thanks for the reply, I have purchased a pedal box already,a very good rix motorsport version if i am correct, For what reason don't you recommend for road car use ?
I have no problem in modifying the bulkhead in a proper way to accept the pedal box tho will not modify the pedal box to fit the car,
The pedal's may need a tweek so that to me is not a bad comprise,
It is a work in progress so will be jumping back and forward to get it right so will give progress reports as i go in anyone would be interested ?
I have no problem in modifying the bulkhead in a proper way to accept the pedal box tho will not modify the pedal box to fit the car,
The pedal's may need a tweek so that to me is not a bad comprise,
It is a work in progress so will be jumping back and forward to get it right so will give progress reports as i go in anyone would be interested ?
Thanks Maxfield i did not know that, it is a question i will put to some people here, My first priorty in this build is a good brake setup so all advice will be accepted,I have rx7 capilers to be fited and disc brake rear end,
I totally accept that i may not be right in my plans tho a plan has to start somewhere
Cheers Mo
I totally accept that i may not be right in my plans tho a plan has to start somewhere
Cheers Mo
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ross_jsy
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Have you ever driven a car with a pedal box before? If you do, you will soon find out why they aren't good for a road car.
I can tell you now, RX7 brakes are not going to be up to the job. With a pedal box, you have a limited amount of pressure you can put into the system compared to a servo'd set up. Not an issue on track when you can use 70kg of pedal effort, not so great when you are popping to the shops. To make up for the loss of force, much larger brakes are required.
Have a search for posts by a chap called Geoffbob (I think that was his name) on the subject. He built some mental jap powered, Renault 5 Maxi bodied car based on e30 geometry and was very knowledgable on selecting m/c's, disc and piston sizes for pedal boxes. It was his posts that completely put me off the idea of using one.
A far better solution for v8 swaps is moving the servo internally behind the glove box.
I can tell you now, RX7 brakes are not going to be up to the job. With a pedal box, you have a limited amount of pressure you can put into the system compared to a servo'd set up. Not an issue on track when you can use 70kg of pedal effort, not so great when you are popping to the shops. To make up for the loss of force, much larger brakes are required.
Have a search for posts by a chap called Geoffbob (I think that was his name) on the subject. He built some mental jap powered, Renault 5 Maxi bodied car based on e30 geometry and was very knowledgable on selecting m/c's, disc and piston sizes for pedal boxes. It was his posts that completely put me off the idea of using one.
A far better solution for v8 swaps is moving the servo internally behind the glove box.
I've got a pedal box in my track car. Before it went for its first MOT I spoke to the chap who'd be testing it and he was happy to speak to the relevant authorities on the phone to clarify whether or not he could pass it. It's been going there ever since without a problem 
Ross is right - you need to make sure your m/s to piston area is favourable to avoid massive pedal effort for every day braking manoeuvres. There are some fail stories knocking about on various forums of people who've fitted them without due consideration then complained about how it's f*cked up their brakes!
However, I put a spreadsheet together and with the help of Geoffbob, made sure there weren't any errors. The setup I have is perfectly driveable on the road. Jumping out of a servo assisted car into the E30 doesn't take too much in the way of self-adjustment. On track, the brakes are excellent.
iirc the spreadsheet estimated just under 30kg required on the pedal to execute a 1G braking manoeuvre, based on my setup. Shouldn't be a problem for anyone except the most limp-wristed, sparrow-legged of drivers.
I'm no expert, but if you pm me your email address I can send you a copy of the spreadsheet and help you populate it if need be.
Ross is right - you need to make sure your m/s to piston area is favourable to avoid massive pedal effort for every day braking manoeuvres. There are some fail stories knocking about on various forums of people who've fitted them without due consideration then complained about how it's f*cked up their brakes!
However, I put a spreadsheet together and with the help of Geoffbob, made sure there weren't any errors. The setup I have is perfectly driveable on the road. Jumping out of a servo assisted car into the E30 doesn't take too much in the way of self-adjustment. On track, the brakes are excellent.
iirc the spreadsheet estimated just under 30kg required on the pedal to execute a 1G braking manoeuvre, based on my setup. Shouldn't be a problem for anyone except the most limp-wristed, sparrow-legged of drivers.
I'm no expert, but if you pm me your email address I can send you a copy of the spreadsheet and help you populate it if need be.
I have a willwood bias pedal box in my car, I brought it from garagistic in Americaland along with a mounting plate suitable for lhd cars. It was about £500 for everything. There are some photos of the kit at the tail end of Glenn's build thread;
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... &start=400
I am using e46 m3 front brakes and e30 m3 rear brakes, both brake master cylinders are 5/8 inch, the clutch is 3/4 inch.
This generates about 1200psi max at the front brakes depending on the bias setting.
You need to set the master cylinder rod lengths so that the bias bar is at about 90 degrees to the pedals, different caliper sizes will make the bias bar 'twist' if both m/c rods are the same length.
With no servo you need to use the smallest diameter master cylinder to get the most pressure. this has to be offset against the need to produce enough fluid volume to push out the brake pistons, if you go too small the pedal will be very long.
With a bias system I would strongly recommend the fitment of a remote bias adjuster knob (very difficult to adjust with top hung pedals ) and using pressure gauges on the front and back calipers to measure the actual brake bias / pressure.
My set up does require a good shove, when I drive another car after the M3 I nearly go through the screen when I first apply the brakes.
Willnz's set up looks good, it may be worth copying it.
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... &start=400
I am using e46 m3 front brakes and e30 m3 rear brakes, both brake master cylinders are 5/8 inch, the clutch is 3/4 inch.
This generates about 1200psi max at the front brakes depending on the bias setting.
You need to set the master cylinder rod lengths so that the bias bar is at about 90 degrees to the pedals, different caliper sizes will make the bias bar 'twist' if both m/c rods are the same length.
With no servo you need to use the smallest diameter master cylinder to get the most pressure. this has to be offset against the need to produce enough fluid volume to push out the brake pistons, if you go too small the pedal will be very long.
With a bias system I would strongly recommend the fitment of a remote bias adjuster knob (very difficult to adjust with top hung pedals ) and using pressure gauges on the front and back calipers to measure the actual brake bias / pressure.
My set up does require a good shove, when I drive another car after the M3 I nearly go through the screen when I first apply the brakes.
Willnz's set up looks good, it may be worth copying it.
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ross_jsy
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Have you seen how some V8 swappers stick it behind the glovebox? Can't find the pictures but there's some floating around of the modified brake pivot.
The wiki also has an interesting solution which I hadn't seen before. Mounting the servo the other side of the firewall while retaining the M/C in the engine bay:
http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... M6x#Brakes
The wiki also has an interesting solution which I hadn't seen before. Mounting the servo the other side of the firewall while retaining the M/C in the engine bay:
http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... M6x#Brakes