Engine choice for my track car

[LondonTom]

Really at crossroads as to which route to take with my car on the engine front. I've been keen on doing an s54 swap for some time and even bought an engine, which has since been sold (for more than what I bought it for!). However, I'm questioning whether it will be worth all the extra associated costs over say an m50/2 B30 with a few go faster bits. Obviously replacing parts of the latter will be much cheaper than the s54, which whilst it has a much higher HP in factory form (I have yet to see what figures one produces in an E30), the torque is likely to on a similar level with a well built M50/2.

My other consideration has been for a YB turbo - a bit left field I know, but they are a firm favourite of mine and a serious bit of kit when built properly.

Car in question is a stripped out 2 door which decent suspension, cage etc and a plastic bodykit.

[jmc330i]

If you're not stuck on a BMW engine, I'd go for some lighter 4cyl turbo action - get the engine as far back as possible to help handling more so and crank the boost up

[michael7s]

m50b25 with holset hx35 turbo and supporting mods would take you over 400bhp

[DanThe]

As its a track car, chuck a 2.8 in it and play with other bits is my advice

[maxfield]

I'd say stick with S54 as its a great engine IMO.

The SR20 seems to be a popular engine choice, they're a 4 banger and can make good power. But not for a BMW IMO.

[jmc330i]

SR20 would be my choice of non-BMW engine.

What's the current cost for an S54 conversion to be done properly?

[LondonTom]

As its a track car, chuck a 2.8 in it and play with other bits is my advice

You're probably right, but I'm thinking that I don't want to then have to change the engine at a later date if I wanted more power, thus doing the S54 now, which I think I could do for circa 5-6k.

If I was to go turbo route, I'd stick with a YB all day long.

[HairyScreech]

bunging a 2.8 in opens the door for most of the late type BMW engines as they are all very similar in size/shape and share a slant angle.

Without checking and just from experience I think an M52 might be about the same weight as the YB. Certainly I was staggered by the weight of the one we dropped into a friends Sierra 4x4. Bare engine must be the same weight and the accessories on the YB are heavy.
For its size the M52 its light, with stripped down accessories (race/denso alternator, electric or no fan, no aircon, no pas, light flywheel, plastic rocker covers, denso coils etc) it start to look like a pretty good choice.

A boosted B28 is also capable of really good power reliably, 400hp is not stressing them too much.

Given the ease of the B28 conversion vs the electics on the S54 or the hassle of the non bmw engine/breaking new ground it would always be my choice.

Edit - and the yanks do a few supercharger kits for the B28 with good results.

[jmc330i]

Edit - and the yanks do a few supercharger kits for the B28 with good results.

Don't the U.S. M52s have iron blocks?

[HairyScreech]

Various, Z3 lumps are alu/iron liner, I know some US M5x variants are iron block but with out checking not sure.

The E46 based kits are certainly the alu blocks though. (M52tu and M54)

[jmc330i]

From what I've read, all US E36s (M50, M52, S52) had iron blocks. The ally block M52tu first appeared in the E46. The Z3 6cyls were all ally block M52.

Would be interesting to see if there are getting 400bhp reliably from an ally block M52 and what needs doing compared to starting with an iron block.

[Motorhole]

As its a track car, chuck a 2.8 in it and play with other bits is my advice

Exactly what I'm doing now...keep it going whilst I sort out my preferences in chassis, reduce weight further etc or until it dies. Then decide whether I want to build an M52B30, hang around for an M60B40/M62B44 + manual g'box to pop up or source a non-BMW V8.

Edit: the first option is without doubt the cheapest. But I would dearly love a V8.

[winx]

My trackcar is M52B28 and I have a lot of fun with it. Yes it isnt the fastest thing in a straight line but with the rest of the package it more than makes up for it in the corners.

I'd go M52 and enjoy some track driving whilst you decide further!

[Demlotcrew]

S54 SMG a’¥

[LondonTom]

S54 SMG a’¥

I'd happily do an s54 conversion, but I have yet to see anyone run one (NA) on a dyno or at least post the result subsequent to doing so, which does make me question what power they produce when chopped about to fit into a rhd e30.

[Demlotcrew]

Its very possible to get the power, one just needs to know how

[ajay]

a‘†aa»This is true!! Also depending on how well you are prepared to prep your track turd, ie: getting the engine further back than your typical road going E30 S54, would help a great deal too.

[LondonTom]

[Demlotcrew]

The side on which the driver sits doesn't have anywhere near as much bearing on the final power output as the electronics do. Many people can fit an engine and get it running, only a very few can actually realise the potential.

[LondonTom]

The side on which the driver sits doesn't have anywhere near as much bearing on the final power output as the electronics do. Many people can fit an engine and get it running, only a very few can actually realise the potential.

And here lies my problem - I'd have to buy an off the shelf wiring loom, which could as you say be the limiting factor.

[Demlotcrew]

One mans problem is another mans solution, if you want power with the conversion it will cost, you can spend a lot of time on the forums and get 90% of the install complete, but I dont know many shops that would like to take on peoples un-finshed projects. There are so many unqualified/self certified tunners out there you will need to partner with an experienced and fully immersed solutions provider, sadly they all cost big bucks.

[LondonTom]

One mans problem is another mans solution, if you want power with the conversion it will cost, you can spend a lot of time on the forums and get 90% of the install complete, but I dont know many shops that would like to take on peoples un-finshed projects. There are so many unqualified/self certified tunners out there you will need to partner with an experienced and fully immersed solutions provider, sadly they all cost big bucks.

Looks like it might be a Norris YB in that case

[jmc330i]

Its very possible to get the power, one just needs to know how

if you want power with the conversion it will cost.

Any chance of some power and cost figures?

[ajay]

From experience, (previous E30 S54) talking to others that have done this conversion, learning from bmw technical information & good friends,internet, & experimenting leads me to believe my current build will meet my expectations of delivering the expected output. If your interested do some research, see cars in the flesh & talk to their owners, do your homework & learn exactly what is required. There's different ways of achieving it, choose what suits you best. Not the best bang for your buck but in my case thats not what its about..
Ps, By moving the engine further back will improve handling & balance a‘aaa»

[Demlotcrew]

Its very possible to get the power, one just needs to know how

if you want power with the conversion it will cost.

Any chance of some power and cost figures?

To have a complete solution you are looking in the region of £10-15k

[pacerpete]

Its very possible to get the power, one just needs to know how

if you want power with the conversion it will cost.

Any chance of some power and cost figures?

To have a complete solution you are looking in the region of £10-15k

I've got £7.86, can you quote me happy ?

[sweep]

Pete..you have a way with figures.

[ajay]

Any chance of some power and cost figures?

I would imagine expecting standard E46 power delivery, albeit any benefits minus cats,(ac, depending on your spec) may have to add, other usual options are lighter flywheel, copy alpha n, copy csl intake etc, can add to the overall experience (if not much in the way of power), i guess its up to the individual how far you go with your turd. A few changes & tweaks on my old turd bore impressive results ( not dyno'd, but night & day difference to how it drove), ill happily post up figures once its running again!

[Motorhole]

£10-£12k!? For that money you could just about have a brand spanking LS6 crate motor in and running. Easy 400bhp day in, day out.

[jmc330i]

Its very possible to get the power, one just needs to know how

if you want power with the conversion it will cost.

Any chance of some power and cost figures?

To have a complete solution you are looking in the region of £10-15k

Thanks Andrew
I had figured £10k at a minimum, so wasn't far off. I must admit, for my needs the cost of £10-£15k just isn't justifiable in terms of bang for buck.

[jmc330i]

£10-£12k!? For that money you could just about have a brand spanking LS6 crate motor in and running. Easy 400bhp day in, day out.

That is something I've been thinking about! Maybe not a brand new LS6, but £10k should do a decent LS1 with 6 speed swap.

[jmc330i]

Any chance of some power and cost figures?

A few changes & tweaks on my old turd bore impressive results ( not dyno'd, but night & day difference to how it drove), ill happily post up figures once its running again!

Yes please It would be good to see how well a sorted S54 performs.

[Motorhole]

You're right, maybe not quite £10k, but £12k wouldn't be far off. If you're happy with sourcing a used LS1 and T56 and just giving it a freshen up, you should be able to get it in and running for around £8k. Off the shelf mounts, prop, manifolds and sumps can all be imported from the US. Manifolds might need tickling but elsewise should be good to go. I've priced it up carefully a few times but I still can't afford it

[Demlotcrew]

I've just supplied a complete SMG M3 as a donor to a customer who has an LS6 in his car. He hates it so much that it's being replaced by an S54 a˜­a˜‚

[Motorhole]

I've just supplied a complete SMG M3 as a donor to a customer who has an LS6 in his car. He hates it so much that it's being replaced by an S54 a˜­a˜‚

Ah, interesting! What is it he doesn't like about it? I don't mean to come across all LS fanboy - money no object, S65 would be my choice - but they do offer a lot for the cash, size and weight. Was it lacklustre throttle response? The agricultural gearbox?