my car went on the rollers today

[player6]

my car was back at bexley for a onec over and thay put it back on the RR to see what was going on it made 260bhp

[Kos]

whats the spec of your engine??

sounds pretty tasty!!

[tbmw]

very impressive

[Adammcf]

Nice! Got Total BMW today and the car looked good.

[M5pilot]

You'll find that BHP figure creeping up as the engine runs in. The C2 goes up everytime it gets a dyno done. Its still very low miles since rebuild and feels aot more powerful than last year.

I reckon it wll get to around 265bhp. That really is amazing that a 12V 2.8 is making only 20bhp short of what a 3.0 24V M engine makes on the same rollers!

[player6]

and its lighter than a e36

[M5pilot]

You better change your sig to 260 bhp!

Your brakes are bigger than E36 3.2 ones aswell and so are the calipers.

[jaistanley]

That is awesome. I assume you've followed all the tried and tested traditional tuning methods?

I was talking to my mate on the way to work about this. People these days, since the advent of fuel injection especially, think tuning an engine is buying a load of bolt on bits from a mail order company and quoting PHP figures (Pub Horse Power).

Back in the seventies/eighties tuning your car involved getting your hands dirty and doing stuff like porting the head, de-coking, re-honing bores, fitting cams, tuning timing etc etc. I love this approach and it's what makes tuning cars an involving hobby. How much have you read about the subject since you first started? Loads I'll bet.

We need more techy stuff here on the zone. An involved article about your 2.8 would be an excelent start! (bit of work for you though!)

Don't mind me... Just off on a tangent...

Jai

[Simon13]

interesting, Scott can u get it rolling roaded somewhere else?!

I remember a few years back when total bmw went to bexleys for an E30zone rolling road day. Lot's of cars there, cammed 2.5's to high milege tuned 2.7's, standard etc. All cars made below the power they should of, apart from u guessed it a "mildly tuned" 2.7 lump which bexleys built.

No offence to u Scott but when u spend 10 bags on an M20, no wonder when it's rolling roaded at the place where it was built, it makes all this power.

E30Adams car is not a million miles behind in engine spec but "only" made 210 bhp. Same 2.8 capacity too. Not bexleys built either.

I know i'm sceptic and i'm sure your car is making good power, i've seen it and the other 2.7's at the total bmw photoshoot going full chat round castle coombe.

Engines with torque always feel faster than they are with the old arse dyno. Nothing in it between an S14 engined car and a highly tuned 2.7 i know. But u would say the 2.7 all day because of the low down torque

[player6]

adams engine spec is so diffent to mine

adams
2.8 litre stroked M20B28, Dastek piggyback Unichip, Schrick 284\272 camshaft with Schrick dual valve springs, all new head components, Kent Cams vernier pulley, Pipercross cone filter with heat shield, remote adjustable fuel pressure regulator, MAF conversion, oversized throttle body, Scorpion full stainless steel exhaust system,
mine
M20 2.8 Bottom end using M52 crank lightened balanced
extremely high compression
Lightweight custom forged pistons
heavily modified head with humongous ports!
Schrick 288/288 cam with vernier pulley
BTB 6 branch manifold
MBE motorsport management system ,with DIS spark system (no distributor and coil)
ITG filter
Dbilas Throttle Bodies
Custom exhaust

[alexm3uk]

i was there to day with the m3 and saw your car on the rollors was bloody impressed. i recorded it on my mobile so if anyone knows hows to put video up i will to it

alex

[tylerma]

i was there to day with the m3 and saw your car on the rollors was bloody impressed. i recorded it on my mobile so if anyone knows hows to put video up i will to it

alex

you can email it to me if you want tylerma77@hotmail.com
and I'll get it hosted and put the link up

[REEDY]

Nice going scot, bet ya well chuffed with that!!

[buster]

Nice power ,bet your well chuffed ! Good on you for doing so much to the m20 engine but i must admit for Ԛ£10 k you could have poped in a 3.2 and still had change left.Not pissing on your fire though just my opinion.Anyway well done.Also I was a little dissapointed in the total bmw mag that they didnt really show your engine bay,just the intake pipe with bexley sticker on it

[e30_Turbo]

Well done scott, will be up for that drag at the pod soon mate

[E30Adam]

E30Adams car is not a million miles behind in engine spec but "only" made 210 bhp. Same 2.8 capacity too. Not bexleys built either.

I think that part is largely to do with it I'm sorry to say.

The spec differences shouldn't create a 50bhp difference. My car is underpowered for it's spec, this is easilly highlighted by Jim's car and the 2.7 that I built him. It's not properly set up yet and is still using the AFM and no engine management yet is only producing a couple of bhp less.

I will say it again though, bhp figures aren't where it's at. It's all about the torque plot and how the car drives on the road. From what I've heard Scott's car is a monster! How driveable is it though for everyday use Scott?

Well done though, you must be well pleased with those results. One of the most powerful NA M20's I know of.

[stevetigger]

E30Adams car is not a million miles behind in engine spec but "only" made 210 bhp. Same 2.8 capacity too. Not bexleys built either.

I think that part is largely to do with it I'm sorry to say.

The spec differences shouldn't create a 50bhp difference.

Well done Scott, you must be well pleased with those results. Once of the most powerful NA M20's I know of.

But surely you can find the extra 50 horses??

[E30Adam]

I probably could do but 6 months ago someone knocked into the back of my car and it's still nowhere near being sorted so the car's off the road at the moment and I'll be selling it once it's repaired anyway.

I wouldn't justify spending the amount that Scott has on his engine, the Dbilas TB's alone must have set him back a good ole wedge.

[stevetigger]

What sort of figure?? When you sell it!


Also whilst your here, I have your old 60mm springs from the white touring......What make are they?? I mean it dont make much difference there going on the car anyways! Just nice to know because Matt gave them to me free and he said he dont know!

[E30Adam]

What sort of figure?? When you sell it!


Also whilst your here, I have your old 60mm springs from the white touring......What make are they?? I mean it dont make much difference there going on the car anyways! Just nice to know because Matt gave them to me free and he said he dont know!

I'm not sure yet Steve, once it's ready to go up for sale it'll be in top condition. I'm going to be paying the garage some extra cash to sort out a few other small bodywork issues while the car's in there. The crash damage isn't all that bad, it will require a new rear pannel which has been pushed in probably 5-10mm and a new rear bumper. THis is lucky in a way because I was planning to get a new rear pannel because the previous owner had a towbar and the holes have started to rust.

If my memory serves me correctly the 60mm kit was PI. Not the best make in the world but performed surprisingly well I thought.

P.S. Sorry for the hijack Scott.

[stevetigger]

P.S. Sorry for the hijack Scott

Me too!







I cant wait to get them on! lets go low

[Andy325i]

Great result Scott, well done


Andy

[fuzzy]

i say well done as well, you must be well chuffed. some people are never happy though,they want rolling road session as proof and then say there not worth the paper there printed on when you do 260 bhp is impressive, whats the plans for it next? i suppose though it must be getting near its limit. id go with buster on this one though, id have transplanted the 3.2 m3 engine to give a higher starting point with more future scope

[Jordan]

extremely high compression
Lightweight custom forged pistons
heavily modified head with humongous ports!

What is the exact C/R?
What piston shape have you gone with? Flat tops or stock style inverse crowned.
Any pictures of the headwork?

What were you actual RWHP and RWTQ numbers on this dyno? "260hp" is a guestimated claim and that is all. Power and Torque as measured at the wheels are the only genuine numbers worth talking about.

My 2.8L stroker was recently retuned and dyno'd. Results in my sig...

[stevetigger]

Whats RWHP, RWTQ ??

[maxfield]

rear wheel horsepower and rear wheel torque

[tim_s]

nice result, i'd also like to see results atw and would like to know what CR you're running!

[Jimbob]

Rear wheel HP is gonna be over 200 surely!

This car's an animal, no other N/A M20 will get near it.

[Jordan]

Whats RWHP, RWTQ ??

Rear Wheel Horse Power and Torque.

A chasis dyno or rolling road measures the horsepower and torque generated at the wheels, not at the crank.

Most engine manufactuers rate their engines output at the crankshaft, where it is highest. A good deal of this hp and tq is consumed rotating the driveline components before it finally reaches the ground.

Now speculation aside it is all but impossible to give a exact figure for power lost through the drivetrain. Any and all modifications to the drivetrain will affect final power at the wheels such as lightening flywheel etc.

What I can say for reference anyways.

Bone stock "as new" m20b25 is rated to produce 168hp and 160tq.

I know for a fact a well kept *stock* m20b25 with 58k miles put down 138RWHP and 132RWTQ.

138 x 1.2174 = 167.9874

So for all intents in THIS SCENERIO we can state with a high degree of accuracy that the completely stock drivetrain comsumes 21.74% of the engines output by the time the power reaches the wheels.

So all of that said, I want to see this engines RWHP and RWTQ, prefered a actual picture of the dyno chart itself for viability. It's quite easy to simply type out your numbers, quite another thing entirely to be able to prove them.

[Jimbob]

Scot wouldn't lie about his quoted 260bhp at the fly.

So far scenario we'll take your 21.74% and that will still equate to 203bhp at the wheels. And even with room for error (high reading for flywheel calculation and percentage difference for the equation) we can still give it +/- 10bhp either way from the calculated 203bhp, so from going from the original figure of 260bhp at fly and your percentage of 21.74 this could actually range from 203bhp and beyond for a measurement of RWHP.

[Jordan]

21.74% applies to a completely bone stock car ONLY. I thought I made that clear in my previous post. It's not a figure that can be easily applied to whatever it is you like.

I'm not calling him a liar, simply calling him out to substaintiate his claim of 260hp by posting a dyno chart.

I should think Scot has fitted a lightened flywheel, and likely removed the stock vibration dampener around the flex disc. The pair can easily result in the loss of 10lbs or rotational weight, and will reduce driveline losses.. how much though is impossible to know for certain.

Like I said before the only numbers that matter in cases such as this are RWHP and RWTQ.

[stevetigger]

Watch this space then, Project Mystery is going to have a rwhp that will shock you!

[SwirlyE30]

Jordan, Scotts car is faster than yours....end of. Im sure the bloke isnt bullsh*ting about the figures, and im sure that the RWHP is 200+

[buster]

anyone that chucks Ԛ£10,000 at the engine i believe !

[Jordan]

Jordan, Scotts car is faster than yours....end of. Im sure the bloke isnt bullsh*ting about the figures, and im sure that the RWHP is 200+

This isn't about who is faster, frankly i couldnt care less.

I just want to see HP and TQ at the wheels, not some immaginary number which is all 260 is.