iS vs. Sport vs. E36 325...which one should I get?!

[MrDazzle]

Hi,

Pending new jobs (feckers do like to make you wait don't they?) I'm loooking into which car to get. List so far stands at:

318iS:

For
- Fuel economy (gonna be a daily driver, probably do about 200 miles most weeks).
- Handling.
- Slightly cheaper insurance.

Against.
- Sound
- Kit (i.e. electric seat, LSD (biggy!)).
- Refinement (fair few long journeys.
- No 6 cyl torque or sound.

E30 325i Sport:

For

- 6 Cyl engine sound, tractability etc.
- More powerful
- LSD:D

Against
- Fuel!
- Reliability concerns...not sure how founded they are though.

E36 325 (not sure if Coupe or 4 door, or even touring!).

For
- M50
- Fuel? Are they more efficient than the E30?
- More modern, with coresponding refinement etc.
- Better equipped.

Against

- Stodgier? Bit heavier and softer than an E30?
- Looks...gotta love the M-Tec E30...M-Tec E36 looks too much like an M3 wannabe.
- Can be a wankermobile, a reputation earned in the mid 90's.
- Slightly (about 4-5%!) more to insure.

Well?

EDIT: Initial purchase isn't too concerning.

[RSTurbo50]

hi mate

Well ive had two E30 325i SPORTS.......touch wood had no problems with either.......engines are generally bullet proof.

Also had 2 E36's in 4 door form. One was a 320i Auto and other was a 325i M3 Sallon replica....

The E36 was a lovely smooth car to drive.....if you choose an E36 get a later model from 94 onwards with the VANOS engine.....

Choosing between an E30 and E36 is all down to personal tastes....

The E36 is much more modern and more refined......

But the E30 Sport has real character and is alot more fun to drive then the E36....

Terms of performance.....Id say the E30 Sport is quicker off the mark but once both cars get going id say the E36 325i pulled stronger.....

Watever you decide you wont be disappointed with either!

Stu

[Moofles]

i wouldn't say the e36 has a reputation for being a 'wankermobile' - in fact, when the e30 first came out, it had a reputation for being driven only by yuppies, which most here would consider wankers im sure...

i think with the 325i sport it's at an unfortunate stage where council chav types can afford it - same as the e36 325i, actually.

i'd get an e36 325i touring, i love the e36 tourings

[328touring]

They never actually made an e36 325 touring, the e30 touring was still being produced when the e36 saloon and coupe was launched. E36 tourings came along in 1995. 320, 323 and 328 (if you want a 6 pot). My last car was an e36 328 touring and it was brilliant but not cheap to maintain that vital service history! Am missing the extra grunt over the e30 325 though the e30 is a lot more fun to drive and cheaper to maintain!

What ever you go for they are both good cars.

[Brianmoooore]

BMW made the E30 - and it's been downhill ever since.
Only good bits about E36s are the M50 engines and their steering racks.
Get an E30, fitted with both of these and have the best of both worlds.

[stevetigger]

BMW made the E30 - and it's been downhill ever since.
Only good bits about E36s are the M50 engines and their steering racks.
Get an E30, fitted with both of these and have the best of both worlds.

I agree with you Brian!

Buy this MrDazzle>>>>Sorted

[tim_s]

i don't, necessarily! i like certain e36s, especially the touring. improvements over e30 off the top of my head:
better engines, better rear axle design, better brakes (abs, + asc mb too), much better steering, bigger wheels, better lights, dash, stereo+speakers, steering wheel, demister, heater controls, wipers, seats, electric windows, remote c/l and alarm. they're also quieter with better sound deadening etc.

-ves are that they're a tad heavier (but e30s are hardly light and imo ppl make way too much of this - normally difference between e30/e36 same model is less than 100kgs), less tail happy (although better behaved). also more modern therefore more plastics esp in engine bay, engine bay etc not painted in top coat on later models. also more complicated so more to go wrong.

if oyu're anti-modern cars fair enough, but i find the progress really glaring whenever i drive an e36.

[6potWil6pot]

The Ebay M50 car looks interesting Seriously doubt it makes 220bhp tho, cause i dont think mine ever did. Id have estimated about 200bhp!!

Havent driven an E36 tho but id go for that since ive had an iS and a quick E30 just as a change of scenary if it were my Ԛ£

[stevetigger]

The Ebay M50 car looks interesting Seriously doubt it makes 220bhp tho, cause i dont think mine ever did. Id have estimated about 200bhp!!

Havent driven an E36 tho but id go for that since ive had an iS and a quick E30 just as a change of scenary if it were my Ԛ£

its a zoners

[Moofles]

i don't, necessarily! i like certain e36s, especially the touring. improvements over e30 off the top of my head:
better engines, better rear axle design, better brakes (abs, + asc mb too), much better steering, bigger wheels, better lights, dash, stereo+speakers, steering wheel, demister, heater controls, wipers, seats, electric windows, remote c/l and alarm. they're also quieter with better sound deadening etc.

-ves are that they're a tad heavier (but e30s are hardly light and imo ppl make way too much of this - normally difference between e30/e36 same model is less than 100kgs), less tail happy (although better behaved). also more modern therefore more plastics esp in engine bay, engine bay etc not painted in top coat on later models. also more complicated so more to go wrong.

if oyu're anti-modern cars fair enough, but i find the progress really glaring whenever i drive an e36.

i agree with this, i personally think e30's are good if you want a second car, weekend, track-day, whatever, but not if you want to use it daily (though it's not un-useable daily). every taken a long drive (> 1 hr) in those standard seats? hurts you after a while...and i've had confirmation from several sources that the sports seats are just as bad...

didn't realise about there being no 325i touring, i'd deffo go for a 328 touring if you could though, mpg is good (better than e30 325i), and almost definitely more powerful - my old z3 2.8 would fairly comfortably beat e30 325i's, and i don't think the e36 is much heavier.

[Dan318-is]

my favourite choice would be to do what jordan sarette did; put all the good thigns from an e36 (except he didnt do the engine), such as the engine, gearbox and seats, and running gear into an e30

that way you get modern upgrads and comfort, speed reliability with the charachter and handling of an e30

[Gouki]

ok forget the 318iS. If your gonna have a BM its gotta be 6 cylinders, and if you want something thats easy on fuel, the E36 325 would be better than the E30. However the E30 is more fun to drive and gets more looks than the E36, see far too many E36 on the roads, specially 318's with M badges on the back.

[delboy8000]

i have to defend the e30 here when talking about not being a good daily driver,i do a 110mile round trip daily,5 days a week in my 325auto,never had any problems,apart from the juice!

[MrDazzle]

Just discovered something odd...

An E30 325 is about the same to insure as an E36 325 (within Ԛ£20), but an E36 328 is Ԛ£200 cheaper than either.

[6potWil6pot]

The M50 i had was no more economical than the M20s i compared notes with during my time. Infact the best mpg i got out of it EVER was about 28 and the worst 17!! Mainly cause i was basically abusing its power everywhere tho.....

[Karan]

sport

[MrDazzle]

TBH I'm edging towards the 328 Touring...

It's quite a bit cheaper to insure, there are more of them. Only sensible people buy estates new ('cept RS Audis ) so there are more well kept ones about, plus the reduced running costs and better refinement look good to me.

I must be getting old(

[SwirlyE30]

Forget the IS. As nice as they can be, the fuel difference between that and a sport on a long work journey isnt a hell of a lot differnt if you drive the sport right. And you get all the comforts of leather, trip computer, nice sound etc.


Or if i were you and you wanted even more comfort yet enough power to back it up, go for a real nice clean E36 328 sport. Nice set of deepdish BBS and they look really nice, lots of creature comforts inside, not sure about fuel econ as ive not had one to drive for a long time

[Ross]

I have an e30 318is that I use daily for a 50 mile round trip and I love it. Regarding fuel consumption, it does about 31mpg.

I also have an e36 328 Sport that the girlfriend uses for her 2 mile trip to work and back. Much better car in every way. I love it when I get to drive the 328 Sport.

However, I also love it when I go to the petrol station in the 318is. For the miles we do it's best I use the four pot for work. The 328 (M52 engine) does about 24mpg on the short journeys and 28mpg with a bit more of a run. That's much better than I used to get out of my e30 325 touring I had before.

As other people have said, either way you won't be disappointed, but if you can stretch to a 328 sport, that's what I'd recommend.

[M5pilot]

Ive driven all of these over the years (E30 325i owned 10!!).

The E36 is something which is much easier to live with day to day, its more refined, more features and the M52 2.8 is fantastic especially if modified by Alpina527 with his excellent intake manifold mod.

Some people say the E36's are boring to drive but then so are E30's if they have standard suspension.

The E30 ultimately is more fun as its more raw but there isnt much in it once both cars are lightly modified.

E36 does have that problem of them being on every street corner but the tourings are rare and look really good.

Drive an E36 328i Touring and you might just like it.

[MrDazzle]

Hmm....

I'm edging even closer to the 328 Touring now! Just got quoted less for a Touring than I was for the iS!

Basically the only bad points I can see (in my opinion) about the 328 Touring are the lack of LSD, greater number on the road (I wanna be seen as a classic enthusiast, not a yuppie ) and the looks.

I'm sure the looks could be fixed with some deep dish BBS's and a new exhaust to liberate some 6 pot symphony!

[tim_s]

lol, driven all of them too. don't forget the 323, basically just a short stroke 328. definitely not to be overlooked, i think these are the best kept secret really. there is a noticeable difference between it and the 328i, but its not massive.
mr dazzle, i'd noticed the insurance thing too, weird int it?!

i have used my 318is as a daily in the past and its been ok, there's not a lot wrong with the e30, i just don't believe that things went downhill after the e30, the e36 is just a more modern car which fairly well reflects the good and bad that that you tend to get between 80s and 90s cars.

on a bit of a tangent, but in response to the forget the m42, its gotta be a 6 etc. i find it strange how idolised the m20 is compared to the likes of the m42. the fuel economy difference is huge between a 325i and a 318is. i can get 38ish mpg on long journeys, and 30+ doing start-stop town driving. no matter how you drive an m20, you won't get close. m20 is a 2v belt driven solid lifter early 70s design, m42 is a 4v chain driven hydraulic lifter late 80s design. it is a much underrated engine, cheaper to run and debatably more reliable than an m20 (no valve adjustment or replacing timing belts etc), better on fuel and hardly any slower when nailed. it has lots of nice touches out of the factory: a great exhaust manifold, far superior rods to the m20, an excellent forged crank, adjustable cam sprockets etc., more up-to-date fuel injection and the head flows v nicely too. it is capable of handling some good power, bmw have just tuned them towards economy out of the box. the m20 was really outdated and long overdue being replaced by the end of the 80s, whereas the m42 was pretty much bmw's most up-to-date engine. and as for a 4 not being a proper bm, wtf? e30 m3 anyone? 318is is also 100kgs lighter than an m20 and has much less weight past the front wheels so feels nice and agile, cheaper to insure etc.
i like m20 engines and m42s, they both have their strengths and weaknesses so i certainly wouldn't so lightly write the m42 engine off or accuse it of not being a proper bmw.

[MrDazzle]

Was the M52 engine new at the time?

It's a 24v, VVT (exhaust side only?) chain drive right?

[Dan318-is]

i think correct; m52 is a very good and power capable lump i have read

i jsut much prefer e30s; for character and driveability the e36 cant touch it imo

[tim_s]

m52 was a re-hash of the m50 really, but yeah was a pretty up to date engine. you know about the nikasil issues btw yeah? and yes the m52 (not TU) were single VANOS, which is a kind of VVT i guess, but through cam sprockets so only cam duration not lift, and continuously variable - so quite different from something like VTEC.

[MrDazzle]

VVT is something I do know about fortunately...just not specific models. The 'T' is for timing after all, which VANOS can adjust. Well, phase would be more specific I guess.

What exactly was the problem was Nikasil? I know some engines have been replaced. If I were to get e car with a BMW history for example would it have been sorted?

[Dan318-is]

not necessarily.

Nikasil was a material they used to line the cylinders with; it was much lighter than still. But the octane rating of the fuels in the mid 90s reacted with the nikasil badly; and unpredictedly, and caused the cylinders to jsut eat away as such and loose compression; this is the basic jist of it

a lot of the engines were replaced under warranty were they not?

[M5pilot]

Its very easy to find out if an m52 has the nikasil issue sorted - a simple call to BMW.

As mentioned before, an E36 can have lots of character if some small mods are done namely the suspension!

323i as mentioned above is a fantastic rev happy engine and responds very well to tuning.

[MrDazzle]

Hmm...

I'm pretty sure my bike has exotic cylinder linings, as does my Dads. Maybe BMW engineers aren't so great after all

[M5pilot]

not necessarily.

Nikasil was a material they used to line the cylinders with; it was much lighter than still. But the octane rating of the fuels in the mid 90s reacted with the nikasil badly; and unpredictedly, and caused the cylinders to jsut eat away as such and loose compression; this is the basic jist of it

a lot of the engines were replaced under warranty were they not?

It was the excess Sulphur in the fuel that ate away at the Nikasil, not the octane rating.

[tim_s]

VVT is something I do know about fortunately...just not specific models. The 'T' is for timing after all, which VANOS can adjust.

yes, was just highlighting that because you used a blanket term which covers a multitude of systems.

What exactly was the problem was Nikasil? I know some engines have been replaced. If I were to get e car with a BMW history for example would it have been sorted?

check it out on an e36 forum to get a proper understanding of the affecrted models. check for good compression on a car you're gonna buy, tbh though if they were gonna have problems, they probably would have by now. think bmw changed the liner design in '98 or '99 but don't quote me on that. i wouldn't lose sleep over it

[Dan318-is]

i stand corrected by a hero yet again

[Moofles]

check it out on an e36 forum to get a proper understanding of the affecrted models. check for good compression on a car you're gonna buy, tbh though if they were gonna have problems, they probably would have by now. think bmw changed the liner design in '98 or '99 but don't quote me on that. i wouldn't lose sleep over it

yes i can confirm this, i went through all this when buying my z3, if you test it now and compression is fine, then the engine is fine. it was supposed to be the high sulphur content in cheap supermarket fuels, and apparently occurred mainly in the north of england.

I recall that one way of being able to check for bore wear is to open the front door while the engine is idling, and see if it is vibrating - it shouldn't be (that's clearly open to interpretation tho...)

[MrDazzle]

LOL...that sounds odd, but feasible!

If the bores are worn then the pistons won't be such a good 'fit'. If they're not a good fit they'll 'wobble' as they go up and down (piston slap) and cause vibration. It just might be that the shape, stifness etc. of the car means you get a sympathetic vibration in the door...

I'd like to know how they discovered that one though!

[Moofles]

lol it's basically that but not quite so odd - if you put the door at as much of a right angle as you can, you can imagine that the movement of the pistons is about right to make the car wobble from side to side...so something at a right angle - such as a door - would show the most movement

i should add, i found this when looking for a z3, i'm not sure if it would work on an e36, but i'm going by the above principle (which means it should!)