Mapping problems! Please help!

[Turbo-Brown]

Cheers for the reply Ant, got it just in time as I was about to go out to see what happened! I'm itching to drive the thing, but I'd rather wait now and enjoy it in the long run than jump in both feet first!

Been puzzling over why the MAP sensor reading from the ECU was always at -0.71bar too. Just checked the wiring and it turns out that I'd managed to confuse myself: The plug's marked 1,2&3 for the pins, the MAP sensor's marked a,b&c so I'd seemingly assumed that a=1, b=2 and c=3.

However, this proved not to be the case so I had the +ve wire in the sensor pin and vice versa

Anyway, swapped them over and it works seems to work, plus ties up reasonably accurately with the boost/vacuum gauge.

Also, in an attempt to stop the gauge going mad, I've taken a bit of copper brake pipe and squashed it down untill there's just a pinhole for the pressure signal to get through.

Got a nice steady signal now which is nice

[e30_Turbo]

Sounds very near the fun time Alex

I've been playing today, had a issue with a stutter under accel and could not find why or what was causing it, after a few calls, emails and research it seems I had gapped ( or not gapped ) the plugs wrong, when I removed them today they were a varied bunch from 0.60 to 0.40, so installed new plugs and gapped them to 0.25 and WOW!!!

Boost builds steadily to around 13psi and the stutter is GONE!!!!!!

I MUST get a video now you need to see what fun I'm having, just some spot welds with a tig welder and I'll be about done....until something else breaks LOL!

If I can make it down, I'll tag along with Ant.....two turbo's nutters are better than one

[Turbo-Brown]

That'd be cool, just as long as you promise not to laugh at the shocking bodgery that is my engine bay!

Connected one of the actutors up today to see what they open at. Seems that they have about 3mm lift at 0.5bar and 6 or more by 0.7bar, so I guess they were originally set to about 9psi ish?

Now, is it a bad idea to start out in earnest with them connected?

It's a bit more than I was originally planning to run (which was 7psi) but it may be possible to map around? Or am I deluding myself?

[e30_Turbo]

That'd be cool, just as long as you promise not to laugh at the shocking bodgery that is my engine bay!

Connected one of the actutors up today to see what they open at. Seems that they have about 3mm lift at 0.5bar and 6 or more by 0.7bar, so I guess they were originally set to about 9psi ish?

Now, is it a bad idea to start out in earnest with them connected?

It's a bit more than I was originally planning to run (which was 7psi) but it may be possible to map around? Or am I deluding myself?

I can only go on what we did on my build weekend and that was stick it all together and see how it goes, my actuator was set to 6psi and that seemed not too high to worry and enough to feel the boost to make sure it all worked.

Once you get a base map sorted and it running then just datalog and adjust. I found a small "lap" I could do from my house via 2.5miles of carriageway and back again, each time I opened the throttle more and then remap, backed off when it pinked and made a few predictions on where the map is heading. It took a few laps, but each time was better and you gain confidence too, I noticed that even after 2000miles I was still only giving it half throttle in 1st and 2nd and thats def not my usual style Having swapped the plugs over I heard some pinking today on the test run, so I'm back to mapping tomorrow with Ant @ our turbo mini-meet.

I do also drive my car to work 2 weeks a month and thats 45miles a day, that was a very big help, if not expensive as it took a while to get the fuel right for cruising and light accel. Cost me a small fortune in fuel.

I've found issues with my actuator and now run a bleed valve, which I've found to give a massive increase in both early spool and building boost early, I've datalogged 6psi @ 2.1k and onto 13psi @ 2.5k, with yours I expect they'll do pretty much the same, so maybe worth a thought when you get the itch to turn them up a little

Are you going to go see Dave Walker? or DIY it?

Mark.

[Turbo-Brown]

Sounds like I should disconnect the actuators again really and probably make us some sort of adjustment for them. Gives me something to do tomoz!

Planning to see Mr Walker at some point, but he reckoned I need at least 500 miles on the engine before he can work his magic, and I can see something going really wrong if I try to do that with the map like it is at the moment.

It's all quite satisfying at the moment though as I go through sorting out little problems (like my own stupidity with the wiring of the MAP sensor).

Think my ol' man's enjoying the whole thing too as he seems to have taken am interest in proceedings.

[Turbo-Brown]

Sweet!

Just realised that the actuators bolt on from the exhaust turbine side of the compressor housing (probably make no sense!). Anyway, the upshot is that I can put a washer in to space it out which lowers the boost

1mm washers have knocked it down to about 0.6bar which is a much more palatable 9ish psi.

[Ant]

Good find Alex!!

Today saw a 3xe30 mini meet, 2 325 turbos and an M3 turbo, all running Megasquirt.

Good info swopping seesion, always nice to hook up with Mark too.

Had a good hour each way datalogging today, results posted below, no WOT runs( traffic on A12 ) but lots of cruising

discuss:

[Turbo-Brown]

Inteeeeresting,

What's the max and min RPM read out measure in? Is it 100s of rpm giving a max of 5800rpm?

Boost seems to follow the throttle position pretty closely, are the numbers on the TPS & RPM graph showing 3700rpm and some throttle number?

My reading of these things leaves much to be desired, but we had a look at the log from the Emerald yesterday. It was interesting to note that the response of the engine seemed to be 90degrees out of phase with the throttle. Closer inspection revealed that the time elapsed from a stab on the throttle and the engine doing it's thing was only fractions of a second, but it's interesting to see what else goes on.

Who's was the M3 Turbo?

[Ant]

Sorry, yeah

TP is in % so 88% max on that log
RPM is X100 indeed

that log is almst 6Meg in total, runtime 1hr38minutes

I have tuned my cruise AFR to 15.2:1 much better economy on a run, needed to be to

Still running no Accel enrichment, and for the purpose of the logs the fuel cut is off, makes reading them easier

[Turbo-Brown]

What a day!

Had a hair cut for the first time in 11 months, balanced the throttles (properly this time) on the engine and also did the thing from the tech guide on the wiper motor so that works properly.

Also helped a chap from work sort the starter on his Corrado, and then we spent a hilarious hour breaking into his car when it decided to lock itself with the keys inside

Something bizarre happening with cyl5 though. All the other cylinders ingest air as they should, but when the engine's cold, cyl5 spits it out past the butterfly. Don't think it's gonna be a huge problem as when the air box is on the mist will be carried back into the engine but it just seems odd that it's only happening on that cyl.

Any ideas?

[lentec]

Valve not seated perhaps? or bit of crap on the seat

[Turbo-Brown]

God I hope not!

Only seems to do it on cold idle for some reason, just wonder if it's an injector weeping a bit or something.

I really don't wanna have to strip the head down again!

[Andy335Touring]

I finally got around to fitting and wiring the LC-1 but i didn't get much chance for data logging as i spent a while messing with the settings and seeing if it would run closed loop on the ECU, oh and i had some relations come over to visit so that was three hours i couldn't work on the car

What speed do you guys have the LM programer set for the analog out put, i think i ended up using the 1/6 second setting. Real time setting had the readings jumping all over the shop and the slowest setting it didn't run as smooth on closed loop at tick over.

I think the fact that i've got a cam fitted and i'm only measuring the exhaust gas from three cylinders means the low gas speeds at tick over are making for an unstable AFR reading ?

For some reason i couldn't save the few logs i managed to do so i've done a screen capture of a 4th gear WOT pull from about 2k through to around 6k rpm.

Yellow = throttle postion %
Green = revs
Red = AFR



I'm not impressed by the AFR trace, all straight edges ? May be this is linked to the sample rate of the ECU data logger or some thing else ?

I don't know what that big lean spike about 5k was, a glitch ?

Looks like AFR wise i started of with low to mid 12's til around 3k rising to about mid 13's til 5k, then it starts dropping down to 13 for the last thousand revs.

Looks like (when i next borrow the lap top) i could start to richen the 3-5k mid range, try to get it below 13 and keep playing with it from there ?

Tick over as i said before was very hard to read because it was jumping all over from 11 to 14, as a gestimate it was spending most of its time in the low to mid 12's open loop which is to rich. I turned closed loop on to see what would happen, the readings stabilized more as it was trying to regulate its self, it was roughly speaking 14 to mid 14's which is a step in the right direction. It did tick over slighty more lumpy than before but by no means badly.

In the settings for the closed loop it can only make up to a 20%(default setting that i didn't feel i should adjust yet) fueling adjustment at the moment so the AFR's might have got a bit higher ?

I think i need some kind of X-pipe in before the sensor so it mix's up the gas so the sensor see's the gas from all 6 cylinders.

[Ant]

Good work fella !

the AFR will show mapped fuel plus any accel enrichment that you have dialled in, I'd log a longish run with some mixed cruise, traffic and a few WOT accel runs and see what the bigger picture is before makig any changes

you'll probably find the midrange is around 15:1 AFR as thats where you need some cruise rpms economy, mine idles at 13:1 AFR, strong as an ox, any leaner and the idle stability is compromised

increase the sample rate again if you can, about twice what you have now, you want as much info as poss really M8

Keep us posted, good stuff

[Turbo-Brown]

Wonder how helpful it is to show the speed and load traces in sites so that you can look at the AFR trace relative to a specific speed and load point?

Really must get one of those sensors! Wish I had some money!

Bit off topic, did ya get my PM about friday Ant?

Cheers!

Alex

[Ant]

PM and Email recieved Alex, sorry been a hectic few days here, been looming out a fresh install

Should have this one in the bag by Wednesday ( kiss of death )

I'll bell you tomorrow evening and we'll go from there, 95% defo I'll be avail OK, cant narrow it more than that until I start the mapping tomorrow

the emerald datalog must be able to diplay the EGO en/unrich crossovers based on the target tables ?

I have no ECU to play with but the software seems to have all the toys

[Dan318-is]

I LOVE THIS THREAD

Ant you have PM

[Andy335Touring]

This is the accel enrich settings, they must have been set when it was mapped ?



So when the throttle was opened and it started at low to mid 12's between 2k to 3k rpm was due to the throttle enrich and then it settled to a true AFR reading after this ?

you'll probably find the midrange is around 15:1 AFR

With a light throttle position ?

It was running fine on cloosed loop when i was messing with it on Sunday so i've left it on for now.

These are the closed loop settings i'm using.



All i've changed is i have lowered the temp that the CL starts due to the coolant temp enrichment doesn't add any fuel after 70 and between 60 and 70 it only adds 2%.

I've also changed how many injector events happen after start up be for the ECU switch's on to closed loop due to the sensor still being on warm up cycle and not out putting an AFR readings but it still needs increasing.

Load site seven is about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle.

Speed site 9 is 4k rpm.

What i'd like is for the CL to look after the fueling for tick over and may be cruising on the motor way at about 80ish mph to help save fuel.

When i've played with it more i could may be do with out CL if i can get it running nice with the sort of AFRs that i'm hoping for ?

The other thing that would be nice is if i could make an economy biased map and a max power map, have both maps stored on the ECU and a switch on the dash connected to the ECU so i could swap between maps with out a lap top ?

Or have a good power map and and switch CL on and off depending on what sort of driving i'm doing ?

Oh well, early days yet

BTW how does this coolant temp table look ?

[Turbo-Brown]

PM and Email recieved Alex, sorry been a hectic few days here, been looming out a fresh install

Sweet, was starting to think that technology was playing it's usual tricks on me, there's a mechaniod conspiracy afoot I tell ya!

Isn't making looms fun?! Either miles too much wire or just a couple of inches short.

the emerald datalog must be able to diplay the EGO en/unrich crossovers based on the target tables ?

Dude, I have no idea what that means

[Ant]

Sorry, "english" version below

Fuel target table is set for 12.5:1 AFR
EGO(02 sen) is recording 15:1
20% enlean/richment limit based on the recorded AFR
Fuel trim would be say 15% more fuel for that map location added under the closed loop conditions

The crossover is generated from the ECU as it trims the fuel to the required target, the ECU has the function, therefore you should be able to display this on the logs ??

Then use the logs to alter the map in the locations where the X over ocurred

simple isnt it folks

[Andy335Touring]

I don't think Emerald has a target AFR table ?

[Ant]

msu have targets somewhere Andy, cant run closed loop without, unless you can only run @ stoich ?

need to go see Lentec and plug in, see whats what on these babies

[Turbo-Brown]

Got a feeling that the Emerald Closed Loop function is only there for the purposes of emissions and cats

[Andy335Touring]

unless you can only run @ stoich ?

I think thats all it will do as theres nothing there to change/set AFR's ?

[Ant]

Will find out tomorrow

Alex, coffee milk and two please mate !

[Andy335Touring]

Shame you guys are so far away as i'd have liked to pop over tomorrow

[Andy335Touring]

Ant, books

[Turbo-Brown]

Will find out tomorrow

Alex, coffee milk and two please mate !

now that I can do! <rushes out to buy coffee>

[Andy335Touring]

I had a bit of a play with mine this week end, i'm still limited as to what i can do because the AFR's on the data logger are still fluctuating(sp?) too much so it's hard to get an accurate AFR reading.

I've tried altering the sample rate of the LC-1 from 1/3 sec through to real time and it makes no differance ?

To get my AFR's heading in the right direction i tricked the ECU into thinking my injectors were 2lbs higher flowing than they actually are.

I then tweaked the injector map around tick over as it did seem to be below 12:1 so too rich.

This log i think is after the injector flow rate change to the left of the thick vertical white line, to the right is after i started adjusting the fuel map.

Purple line coolant temp
Yellow TPS
Green RPM
Red AFR



I adjusted it a little to lean(15:1) as the tick over got a little lumpy, it's funny how the AFR readings stabilized after the change ?

I adjusted again, better tick over at about 14:1



I think this was a WOT pull in third gear 1.5k to 6k rpm(inbetween the thick white lines) but the AFR plot isn't to clear



Once the acel enrich dies off it seems to be around 13:1 or high 12's which is supposed to be good for max power on an N/A engine ??

I assume it's some thing to do with the USB/serial adapter i'm using but some times the maps get scrambled up when programming the ECU from the lap top, bloody does my head in

This is what it does to the map.



I've also switched closed loop control off as it didn't run as sweet and it didn't seem to save me any fuel

Any one else been playing around with their ECUs this week end ?

Can you get a ciggy lighter powered charger for a lap top ?

[Turbo-Brown]

Ooh inteeeeresting I spied in the datalogger that you can set the TPS and RPM to read in sites rather than actual values, not sure if that'd help, but it occured to me that it'd give you AFR data for specific speed/load sites.

Gonna have to have a look at that thread you started on connecting the WBO2 up to the Emerald as mine went mad when we tried it!

Not had a chance to play this weekend, been sorting out the throttle pot, and then it rained today so I didn't go out and fit it

[Andy335Touring]

Ooh inteeeeresting I spied in the datalogger that you can set the TPS and RPM to read in sites rather than actual values, not sure if that'd help, but it occured to me that it'd give you AFR data for specific speed/load sites.

I'll have to have a play with those settings next time.

The other problem is it won't let me save the logs for some reason, thats why i have do lots of screen caps' so i've got some sort of record

[lentec]

Can you get a ciggy lighter powered charger for a lap top ?

Try http://www.globalpositioningsystems.co. ... ption.html

Or try a small 150-200w cheapo inverter and the original mains charger works great for me. no problems if you start the car with it pluged as the batery works as a buffer when the voltage drops.

HTH

[Andy335Touring]

Cheers Len !

[Turbo-Brown]

Now that looks bloody handy!

Any idea what the voltage output on it is?

[lentec]

DC 15,16,18,19,20,21 and a varity of conectors