Sharpening up Handling

[spannerrash]

I’ve been driving around in a 2005 Ford Fiesta to run some errands over the past week, now being back in the E30 I realise how sloppy my handling feels.

Wasn’t expecting to think anything positive about a diesel Fiesta, but it feels very responsive with virtually no body roll, tons of grip no matter how ambitiously I throw it at a corner, and the brakes (low spec, drums on rear) feel sharp like they could stop the car on a dime. Having done some twisty B road hooning in it (as much hooning as can be done with 90bhp) I came away impressed and full of confidence.

I’ve had a good inspection of the suspension. All the original 23 year old setup.

My plans for sharpening the ride up (need help on specifics):
New shocks (Bilstein?)
New springs (wouldn't mind it being slightly lower)
New larger front and rear ARBs
Front and rear strut braces?

And the brakes:
Braided brake lines (Black Diamond?)
High quality pads
High quality drilled/grooved discs

Please could you knowledgeable folks pass on your thoughts on this, let me know what the most important stuff to replace is and point me in the direction of the right parts for the job?

Thanks!

[Sanchez]

It seams like your going in the right direction already.

Blistering b4s. Eibach or h&r springs.

Put a decent front strut brace in as well.

[polsta]

You don't really need to "upgrade" everything going bigger and more expensive like fandango brakes, depending on your budget of course, but instead just go through everything and replace and renew existing , the standard is spec and way it handles if it's all in good order is pretty decent

All new bushes throughout, new pads and discs, eibach springs were fantastic on my old is, lowered a bit but not too much and caused no issues it was a fantastic feeling driving car, new control arms and arb bushes, track rod ends and drop links etc etc , see how your shocks are before replacing, just go though and do it all, some bits may be the originals and shagged , get it all sorted and you'l love it and it will love B road hooning and fun , just depends on your budget and if you can do yourself or not - do maybe a full front end job then rear after , or spend time buying up everything you need and do the lot in 1 go

[polsta]

Also a front strut brace makes a decent and noticeable difference , I put an RPM (around £80) on mine and it was super , particularly in senarios like comming off a roundabout on to a motorway slip road with a bend in and out , so theres a bit of flex going on aswell as increasing in speed , it made it feel brilliant , well worth doing

[spannerrash]

Thanks for the responses!

I like to do as much of my own maintenance etc as possible so I'd be looking to do the work myself which should help me keep costs down. However some of these parts look pretty expensive and I think to do all of what I listed would be like £1000 in parts alone. So I think I'll probably take your advice and start with the obvious stuff and do it gradually.

I'll certainly have to get myself a front strut brace. I didn't realise it could make such a noticeable difference, I've always been under the impression that it was more for show.

Any pointers on how to decide whether my shocks are knackered or not? Not really sure how to test them, they certainly look past their best though. If I need to replace which are best to get, B4, B6 or B8? Not sure what the difference is.

The Eibach springs you speak of sound like exactly what I'm after, Polsta. Can you remember exactly which ones they were?

[Carmo13]

Check for any oil leaks on the shocks around the seal.
The other test is to bounce the car on each corner and check that the suspension settles quickly, within one bounce really. If the car keeps bouncing the shocks are knackered.
I agree with the above advice, check and replace any worn serviceable items. A worn track rod end or perished bushes can make a huge difference to the feel of the handling.
Another thing to keep in mind is that you will never get E30 brakes to feel like modern brakes, there will always be more pedal movement etc, due to the older design.
Saying that, the braking performance should be good enough to give you confidence in an emergency so you may have issues like sticky caliper pistons, a worn master cylinder or air in the system. So again its worth a good inspection.

[polsta]

RPM (look in treader section on here) sell eibach and the strut brace, there's probably only 1 type available message them

The struts I gather you havd to take them out to test, you'l have to ask the other guys on here who know a hell of a lot more than me about all this sort of thing, I think they will be b4's but check /read up

But price wise, it's a 1.8 not an m3 or a track car ,so just replacing worn out brakes for new pagid ones (£20 odd per disc and £20 per axel for pads)= around £120 the lot , is very cost effective and will feel fantastic compared, as opposed to throwing buckets of cash at brembo etc that you don't really need , as will just putting on new ARB bushes and drop links, as opposed to replacing the whole bar etc with an updated one you don't really need , it can either be as expensive or as cheap as you want to make it and find the right balance

Amounts can add up still, I did a load of bits last year and just finishing it off this month, ive just bought wishbones discs snd all sorts of other bits, so I'm only passing on what I havd found, read my thread a few down from this one

[Brianmoooore]

Another thing to keep in mind is that you will never get E30 brakes to feel like modern brakes, there will always be more pedal movement etc, due to the older design.

Don't mistake fashion for engineering advance. The 'feel' of E30 brakes was what the market demanded at the time - BMW could have designed the pedal to be as solid as any 'modern' car (increasing MC bore size), and with as much assistance as they liked (by using more servo piston area). A similar thing applies to the oft criticised E30 steering rack. A quicker rack is not an engineering advance, it's just a change of fashion.

As polsta says, 'upgrades' aren't really required - just get it all working as it was when it left the factory and you won't be disappointed. Having said that, The B4 dampers, Eibech springs, M3 eccentric control arm bushes and E46 rear damper top mounts are all worthwhile little or no cost upgrades.
Drilled and grooved brake discs will give no improvement at all - just for show.

[Carmo13]

Another thing to keep in mind is that you will never get E30 brakes to feel like modern brakes, there will always be more pedal movement etc, due to the older design.

Don't mistake fashion for engineering advance. The 'feel' of E30 brakes was what the market demanded at the time - BMW could have designed the pedal to be as solid as any 'modern' car (increasing MC bore size), and with as much assistance as they liked (by using more servo piston area). A similar thing applies to the oft criticised E30 steering rack. A quicker rack is not an engineering advance, it's just a change of fashion.

Good point, I haven't thought of it like that. It makes sense. I suppose at any time manufactures don't want to stray too far from the normal driving feel due to the risk of criticism.
It may be due to safety improvements also do you think?
Reduced pedal travel and increased assistance should result in reduced reaction times?
Apologies to the OP for the slight subject change.

[Brianmoooore]

More significant is that car designers also include consideration of women in their design criteria these days. Any woman going into a car dealership in the '80s and trying to buy a new car, would have been sent away and told to come back with her husband. Yet another change in 'fashion'.

[Carmo13]

Aahh yes, It takes less force to operate. Again, good point

[spannerrash]

All advice is greatly appreciated. I really need to get under the car over the weekend and see how the bushes are looking. It seems logical that perished bushes could be a big part of the issue. I'll also get chance to properly inspect the shocks and see if they are actually shot or just look it.

The whole pedal and steering feel trends is an interesting discussion. I suppose people were all used to manual racks up to that point to needed easing into light controls. I have to say the e46 rack in mine made the car a lot better, its still weighty compared to modern hatch backs in a good, characterful way.

[BHadley]

The front ARB mount upgrade using the rear ARB set up from a 2000 spec mondeo is worthwhile upgrade and is cheaper than the current set up

It's all in the wiki, get the lemforder parts for OE feel

[spannerrash]

That sounds interesting I'll look on the wiki. Thanks

[milescook]

Check if the rear beam bushes have been done - if not these make a mahoosive difference it's like steering a trolley!

[BackinBlack]

Hi - not trying to hijack, just wanted some more info/advice in line with this thread.

Going through the same work on my 1990 320i cab. I've swapped the wheel bearings front and back (well a garage did the back anyway) which has made a big improvement. Next job is bushes etc. Is there a complete kit some one can recommend, or, is it best to shop around and get them from various places/suppliers? At the moment, I am only looking for OEM replacements (or comparable priced improvements as mentioned previously). I have looked at the wiki and there are all the part numbers there, but being lazy, I was wondering if there was a complete kit available?

[spannerrash]

Spotted oil on my drive this morning where the car had been. Stuck my head under and I can see that oil is running down from both half shafts on my LSD. Bloody typical. I'll have to get that sorted before moving onto bushes etc.

[aimlessrock]

Rem, if you going to get is to do a full back end overhaul the diff will need to come out anyhow and given how heavy they are changing the seals on the bench is fart easier.

I did a full back end overhaul last year and replaced evey bush, drop link, brake rebuild and new fule and brake line etc and had the diff rebuilt (thanks to Gareth) It made the world of difference. I went oem and used rubber, you can use poly bushes but i hear they make for a hard ride.

if your in for a penny....

[spannerrash]

Yeah, this might be the extra kick up the rear I need to get this all dealt with. I just need to source the parts and then find some time! Really want to get the car back on the road. Don't want to be destroying a diff by driving it like this.

[polsta]

Hi - not trying to hijack, just wanted some more info/advice in line with this thread.

Going through the same work on my 1990 320i cab. I've swapped the wheel bearings front and back (well a garage did the back anyway) which has made a big improvement. Next job is bushes etc. Is there a complete kit some one can recommend, or, is it best to shop around and get them from various places/suppliers? At the moment, I am only looking for OEM replacements (or comparable priced improvements as mentioned previously). I have looked at the wiki and there are all the part numbers there, but being lazy, I was wondering if there was a complete kit available?

No complete kit unless maybe you buy a polyurethane kit but as above they say its a harsh ride aswell as being more expensive

Best thing to do is do a complete front end refurb as 1 job , do it properly get it all done , then move on to the rear as a separate job

Use a combination of Bmw and carparts4less /euros getting lemforder where available, but complete new control arms/wishbones are about 100 the pair at cp4l ,get the arb powder coated and new bushes, new droplinks, m3 eccentric lolipop bushes £38 from Bmw , discs pads etc , sort the front

Then do the rear subframe and trailing arms etc as a separate job as the whole lot has to come out, and if cars a long term keeper get it all powder coated and paint the diff etc all new bolts on everything get it all like new

[BackinBlack]

Thank you polsta - makes a lot of sense.

Apologies again for butting in on thread.