3000 Miles Oil Change Myth

[zd3bx]

Yes, another oil thread

I've recently watched a video about a guy who owns an X5M (2010 model) and rags it 120 mph+ almost every day. The car has been driven in very harsh conditions and regularly to its maximum limits.

After having driven the car for 100k miles, he noticed some blue smoke coming out from the exhausts, so he decided to strip the engine and inspect everything properly.

Without going into too much details, the mechanics who stripped the engine were amazed how clean and spotless it was inside, despite the fact how the car has been used all this time.

According to the owner, he changed oil + filter on the car every 3k miles, which is why the engine is in pretty much as new condition after 5 years of very aggressive use and 100k miles.

This is obviously ignoring official BMW recommended oil change intervals, which are usually at least 7.5k miles, and this also goes against what most manufacturers recommend nowadays - probably the average being about 10k miles for an oil change.

So I started reading a bit more about this and came across many articles saying that the "3k miles oil change" is a myth and it was only useful 30-40 years, when the engines weren't so sophisticated and oil quality standards were of course different as well.

One could argue saying low mileage oil change intervals are there to scare people and get them to spend money on changing oil, which is perfectly usable for a longer period.

On the other hand, you could also say that longer oil change intervals are recommended to SHORTEN the life of an engine, so ultimately you will still come back to the dealer for inevitable repairs or end up just buying a new car altogether.

I personally think the above scenario makes perfect sense, especially today, when gone are the days of making solid/long-lasting cars, because now it's all about recycling/squeezing every penny out of a customer and a very short life-span of models (notice how often manufacturers come up with facelifts?)

Your thoughts?

[ross_jsy]

I am guessing an Autobahn?

Changing oil regularly certainly isn't going to do it any harm. Oil changes should be use dependent. Lots of short, stop start journeys or heavy use, change it often. Loads of low strain motorway use, change it less often, simples.

I change my oil every 5k

[zd3bx]

Where does he rag it at 120 mph day in day out?

Every day Moscow city driving...



Ross, 5k sounds decent, but I doubt there's any manufacturer now who recommends anything like that.

[Kos]

Every 6k is what I do my daily

On cars that don't drive daily like the e24 it's every year

[DanThe]

3k miles is well under the odds, if your keen then as above, 5k is as short an interval that you need. Anything over 10k is too much IMO, but can you tell joe blogs this? Can you fck, most wont listen and believe the crap that dealerships spurt out or type into handbooks.
I usually show them the oil on the dipstick from my car, sometimes it works...

[ross_jsy]

Where does he rag it at 120 mph day in day out?

Every day Moscow city driving...



Ross, 5k sounds decent, but I doubt there's any manufacturer now who recommends anything like that.

It's a 21 year old Impreza WRX that I drive hard, combined with many short journeys living in Jersey so more than justified imo. But something I've done with all my cars.

Don't forget, a lot of modern manufacturers are keen to attract fleet and company car contracts. A big draw is reduced service costs.

[bss325i]

Don't forget, a lot of modern manufacturers are keen to attract fleet and company car contracts. A big draw is reduced service costs.

This!

On newer bmws such as E46's, E9x's etc you can with the BMW dealer software program the cars service intervals from 15k miles down to 10k of less before it flags up on the car that it needs an oil change.

[DanThe]

Can you alter it with progman Barry? Is it from a certain year or the whole model range?

[Ianb]

Personally i view oil as 5k max - the higher intervals just attract fleet sales and people who know no better. A lot of premature engine failures are caused by this and manufacturers couldn't give a hoot as cars are long out of warranty when this happens. Just look inside an engine thats done 10k between changes, it'll be a black cokey mess. You can leave other service items longer and the car will just operform badly or missfire etc but ignore oil at your peril

[bss325i]

Can you alter it with progman Barry? Is it from a certain year or the whole model range?

It may be possible with progman. Look under retrofits and conversions.

[e30Passion]

I just go with what the dipstick tells me. As soon as the oil has lost it's transparent gold colour and really starts to go black it's out! Then i don't just change the oil but flush the block, meaning i change it twice. First drain the old oil when engine is hot. 5ltr. cheap oil from the local supermarket at 14.95 to collect al the dirty oil in the block while blasting up and down the highway. Then drain it again and finally some Castrol 10W-40 with a new filter.

Works for me

[87mtech27]

You can do all sorts of funky stuff with the program on new BMWs starting from E39/46 just be careful not to brick it

[DanThe]

Personally i view oil as 5k max - the higher intervals just attract fleet sales and people who know no better. A lot of premature engine failures are caused by this and manufacturers couldn't give a hoot as cars are long out of warranty when this happens. Just look inside an engine thats done 10k between changes, it'll be a black cokey mess. You can leave other service items longer and the car will just operform badly or missfire etc but ignore oil at your peril

I can drag mine out to 10k as I run on LPG, not that dirty petrol stuff

[maxfield]

Thing is if he's doing 120mph plus everyday, the engine is getting warm. Cold starts are the killer to engines.

I don't think there's any new car that has a service interval of less than 10k, some big ftench vans are 25k

[zd3bx]

I just go with what the dipstick tells me. As soon as the oil has lost it's transparent gold colour and really starts to go black it's out! Then i don't just change the oil but flush the block, meaning i change it twice. First drain the old oil when engine is hot. 5ltr. cheap oil from the local supermarket at 14.95 to collect al the dirty oil in the block while blasting up and down the highway. Then drain it again and finally some Castrol 10W-40 with a new filter.

Works for me

That's a quite good point, but the oil goes black pretty quick, doesn't it?

However, £3 oil filter and £17 of 5ltr of Shell Helix 10w40 from ECP and you're done

20 odd quid for an oil change sounds good to me!

[DanThe]

some big ftench vans are 25k

the vauxhall ones?

[maxfield]

some big ftench vans are 25k

the vauxhall ones?

Movano/Master and vivaro/traffic. They're all the same to me.

[e30Passion]

I just go with what the dipstick tells me. As soon as the oil has lost it's transparent gold colour and really starts to go black it's out! Then i don't just change the oil but flush the block, meaning i change it twice. First drain the old oil when engine is hot. 5ltr. cheap oil from the local supermarket at 14.95 to collect al the dirty oil in the block while blasting up and down the highway. Then drain it again and finally some Castrol 10W-40 with a new filter.

Works for me

That's a quite good point, but the oil goes black pretty quick, doesn't it?

However, £3 oil filter and £17 of 5ltr of Shell Helix 10w40 from ECP and you're done

20 odd quid for an oil change sounds good to me!

Actually, I was surprised how long it took after flushing for the first time. Depents off course on driving style and surcumstance but usually about 2/3 months of daily driving and it starts to go brown. But you have to make sure there's no old oil in it to start with, hence the flush.

Normally you drain the old black oil and put new stuff in but then after you've driven home and check the dipstick one final time the oil is just as dirty as before the oil change, or so it seems.

It all doesn't mean a damn thing but my uncle did it the flush way and i found it a good idea. Stuck with it ever since

I get my filter from BMW round the corner at 12.44Euro's. W5 15W-40 cheap ass recycled flush oil at 14.95. Castrol GTX 10W-40 at 23.15. So total cost in my case was a whopping 50.54Euros which equals 36.68 British Pounds

That mere 16 quid gives you a few advantages though..
- Properly clean oil. You're engine will love it.
- Sludge prevention. There isn't any.
- Keeps the engine fresh inside. You will find out when adjusting the valves.
- Shows you the state of your engine. If it's as black as Kayne West within a week you know there's something wrong.
- Lasts longer even though that doesn't matter.
- Feels better for comfort

The first time i did it i had to flush the damn thing 4 times before seeing clean oil come out. Nowadays 1 flush once a year will do.

[Ianb]

Personally i view oil as 5k max - the higher intervals just attract fleet sales and people who know no better. A lot of premature engine failures are caused by this and manufacturers couldn't give a hoot as cars are long out of warranty when this happens. Just look inside an engine thats done 10k between changes, it'll be a black cokey mess. You can leave other service items longer and the car will just operform badly or missfire etc but ignore oil at your peril

I can drag mine out to 10k as I run on LPG, not that dirty petrol stuff

Dan, I've been toying with LPG ing my Merc C32 AMG - Is it straightforward for a Supercharged / Chargecooled beast with lots of electronics and does it need to be a low miler ? I'm at 158k with full Merc history.

[stew72]

Oil change frequency really depends on the car and environment and choosing the right oil in the first place. I can't believe how many people are wasteful and change the oil for the sake of it just to look after their car, on something like an E30 if you do 3000-4000 miles a year then yes change the oil annually, but really a good quality oil (API rating spec, not necessarily brand) will easily go to 7000-8000 miles a year.

I've looked at buying cars in the past where the owner has proudly boasted that its well maintained and shown receipts and service records for oil changes and engine services every 6 months but other aspects of the cars condition have been dreadful.

[zd3bx]

Oil change frequency really depends on the car and environment and choosing the right oil in the first place. I can't believe how many people are wasteful and change the oil for the sake of it just to look after their car, on something like an E30 if you do 3000-4000 miles a year then yes change the oil annually, but really a good quality oil (API rating spec, not necessarily brand) will easily go to 7000-8000 miles a year.

I've looked at buying cars in the past where the owner has proudly boasted that its well maintained and shown receipts and service records for oil changes and engine services every 6 months but other aspects of the cars condition have been dreadful.

Well, of course, changing oil is not the end of everything, it's only one part of car maintenance, because otherwise you could also mention people with brand-new stainless steel exhausts, whos timing belt's change is long overdue and the suspension is falling apart.

Also not sure how much of a difference the oil spec makes, because most modern oils are all API SN spec anyway...

[DanThe]

Personally i view oil as 5k max - the higher intervals just attract fleet sales and people who know no better. A lot of premature engine failures are caused by this and manufacturers couldn't give a hoot as cars are long out of warranty when this happens. Just look inside an engine thats done 10k between changes, it'll be a black cokey mess. You can leave other service items longer and the car will just operform badly or missfire etc but ignore oil at your peril

I can drag mine out to 10k as I run on LPG, not that dirty petrol stuff

Dan, I've been toying with LPG ing my Merc C32 AMG - Is it straightforward for a Supercharged / Chargecooled beast with lots of electronics and does it need to be a low miler ? I'm at 158k with full Merc history.

Cant see why it would be anymore difficult TBH mate, the modern injection systems are really good

[appletree]

some big ftench vans are 25k

the vauxhall ones?

Movano/Master and vivaro/traffic. They're all the same to me.

My transporter 1st service was a 25k and now seams to come up at 20k since we swapped garages so maybe they have changed the settings, it's done 100k on a 62 plate but does use a bit of oil probably a liter every 10k