M52 in 318i (again, sorry!)

[ACJJ619]

Hi all! Got my first E30 today! A 318i Lux, and lovely she is too.

Originally I intended on getting a 318is because I assumed I wouldn't get insured on anything quicker (I'm 22) but I couldn't wait to find one and they're outta my budget. I then found out I could get insured on anything up to around 3.0L, so I'm planning a 2.5L M52 swap, maybe with an M50 head. It seems like a good balance of power, weight, economy, ease and price. The M50 head will apparently add some responsiveness and eagerness to the engine which otherwise can feel a little sluggish on throttle. Never driven one but that's what I've been told!

I've never done an engine swap before and whilst my car knowledge is good, my specific engine knowledge isn't great so I will be getting a garage to sort it out for me.

So I guess my question is, what exactly do I need to change in the 318i for this engine swap to happen? I've got a budget of around £1600 which I've been told should cover it, but I don't know specifically what will be changed. I've scoured the net and lots of people seem to say lots of different things about what you need and what works. Different differentials, propshafts, gearboxes, all that stuff. Nobody seems to agree on what you need and what works. I need to be able to either supply a full spec list to the garage or ask them to give me one that I can confirm contains everything I need.

As far as I can tell, I will need the following:

M52 2.5L engine, ECU, propshaft, differential, gearbox and loom, rear disk brakes and a new clutch.

My confusion comes with people talking about things like VANOS, EWS and using M50 parts for the sump/diff etc.

Essentially, I want to drop my 318i off at a garage and leave them to sort everything out. The garage I've chosen have the engine and box in stock and will order a new clutch in. Do we think my budget will cover that? They seem to think so.

[Muzz2676]

I've got a m52b25 being taken out of my e30 as I'm having a m52 3.0 built from a 2.8, you're welcome to that for a couple of beer tokens.

I have to say you're probably best going for the 2.8 not the 2.5 to start with.

Also have an ask around here and see if you can get someone to build it for you rather than a random garage

[ACJJ619]

I've got a m52b25 being taken out of my e30 as I'm having a m52 3.0 built from a 2.8, you're welcome to that for a couple of beer tokens.

I have to say you're probably best going for the 2.8 not the 2.5 to start with.

Also have an ask around here and see if you can get someone to build it for you rather than a random garage

Ah okay cool. What would that come with? This is my issue - I don't really know all the bits and bobs I need so the thought of searching around for everything individually isn't sitting pretty. Much rather take it to someone who already has the bits!

I chose the 2.5 because apparently the 2.8 is harder to find and more expensive - plus it pops my insurance up by quite a bit. I've not had a RWD car before and whilst I'd class myself as an above average driver who knows what they're doing, I'm still realistic and thinking it probably isn't wise to start my RWD adventure with a 200bhp E30

My garage of choice is JapAndGerman in St Austell, Cornwall. I've never used them before but the impressions I've got from their website and speaking to a few of the guys down there on the phone are positive. Seem like a real genuine bunch of guys and they've got all the parts I need for me to just drop the car off and collect it in a week or two fully finished.

If you know anywhere closer to Southampton though, that would be ideal!

[Brianmoooore]

The mistake you're making is assuming that there's only one way to do the conversion. You need E36 M50/52 alloy engine mounting arms, but apart from that, there are loads of different ways of doing things, and different components required to do it.

[heathy325]

Welcome to the e30 modding zone lol I've just put the m52 in mine with the m50 inlet manifold and its awsome and definatly reccomend it for either the m50 or m52 you will need engine,loom,manifolds,ecu with ews if your gona use this, radiator with 88 degree fan switch, aircon fan,clio brake servo from a 2001 model, e34 m50 sump with oil pick up and dipstick? You can use your original gearbox prop and diff but would need the m20 flywheel, clutch but I'd reccomend fitting the m52 gearbox with prop and a diff of ratio around 3:25

For the loom and exhaust manifolds I'd contact Danthe on hear as his are top notch and the loom is a simple plug and go one

Hope this helps

[heathy325]

Sorry forgot you need the e36 alloy engine arms and two m5 cylindrical engine mounts

[Brianmoooore]

Sorry forgot you need the e36 alloy engine arms and two m5 cylindrical engine mounts

There are many alternatives to the M5 mounts. There is no alternative (other than fabrication from scratch) to the E36 arms that I know of.

[ACJJ619]

The mistake you're making is assuming that there's only one way to do the conversion. You need E36 M50/52 alloy engine mounting arms, but apart from that, there are loads of different ways of doing things, and different components required to do it.

Ah okay cool - that hadn't really occurred to me. Do the different methods/combinations have different pros and cons?

For example, the chap above says I can use my original gearbox prop and diff, but the M52 ones are recommended. How much difference is there? My only concern is if the garage struggle to work within the £1600 budget.

[Muzz2676]

Might be worth keeping an eye on the classifieds here and wait for a conversion package to come up.

[heathy325]

The m52 gearbox and matching diff combo make it more reliable than the e30 box and certainly less noisey than the older ones I started out usin my original m20 gearbox and ended up swapping it for the m52 one as I couldent cope with the rattely getrag box anymore

[Motorhole]

If you're using the diff from the donor car, it will have to be removed from the casing and built into an E30 casing. If you're fitting it into a 318i (which has a small-case diff), you will need to source a medium case E30 diff (325i). Alternatively use a diff from a Z3/E36 Compact (preferably a 6-cyl Z3 for the bigger diff though) and swap the diff output flanges. If you use your 318i diff, it will all work but you'll be doing 4000rpm+ at 70mph on the motorway as the E30 and E36 gearbox ratios are different. In the main: CHEAP = keep 318i diff and make do with 318i gearbox. BEST = use E36 gearbox and source a diff with adequate ratios. Use the propshaft that matches whichever gearbox you use.

You don't need an M50 head on the engine - that's a lot of unnecessary work. Only the plastic M50 inlet manifold, which is pretty much a bolt on mod. You will also need an E34 or E38 sump and dipstick tube as the E36 sump fouls the E30 subframe.

Exhaust manifold will need a bit of work to clear the E30 steering column. And you'll need an E30 325i exhaust system or a custom system to make it work.

Brake servo will either need to be moved to the left slightly (using a longer transfer bar) or use a Clio servo with associated mods. The process is will documented on here.

As said above, E36 engine mounting arms are required but there are many solutions for the rubber mountings.

If doing the job properly, it would be wise to give the engine a good going over too with new water pump, plugs, oil & filter, aux belt, inlet/exhaust/rocker cover casts.

Heathy325 has covered the rad side of things just fine. Don't forget to take the fan and fan clutch off the front of the M52 though and don't forget the electric fan afterwards!

Wiring - well, wiring is wiring. There are diagrams in the wiki or you can buy an off the shelf loom from DanThe on here.

Would be wise to change to the thicker 51mm front suspension struts with 6-cylinder E30 springs otherwise the front will be all over the place.

And after it's in and running, you will very quickly find you will want something more substantial than solid brake discs up front with rear drums. And you will want less than 4.5 turns lock-to-lock to deal with all the power oversteer you'll be getting. And you'll want more than 185 width tyres to put the power down. This is the real hidden cost of an engine swap that nobody really thinks about tbh

[DanThe]

There is a guy on facebook that can supply and fit a 2.8 for £1500

[Motorhole]

There is a guy on facebook that can supply and fit a 2.8 for £1500

Quality. Who needs this place when you have the Facebook group.

[ACJJ619]

Thanks everyone - Motorhole especially for the long and detailed answer.

So now the big question - do we think £1600 for parts and labour is doable?

[DanThe]

Only if you like a lash up of a job and have a large supply of cable ties. Id hazard a guess that this garage has never done an M52 conversion on an E30?

[Muzz2676]

Only if you like a lash up of a job and have a large supply of cable ties. Id hazard a guess that this garage has never done an M52 conversion on an E30?

I think cable ties are a truely underated weapon in the modifiers arsenal!!!!

[DanThe]

Its like duct tape, they were invented for a specific purpose but bodgers always find many more uses

[ACJJ619]

They're JapAndGerman down in St Austell, Cornwall. Said they've done a few! They seem pretty legit: http://www.japandgerman.com/

Nice chap on the phone too. Very informative.

Although the only reason they're top of my list currently is because essentially, they were the first BMW specialist I found relatively nearby (still four hours away!). If anyone knows anyone nearer Southampton who can sort this out for me, feel free to pitch in!

I'm just a naive little E30 newbie looking to pop an M52 in his 318i.

[TheMeathead]

Talk to rawmotorsport there in the Southampton area and love there bmws. They have just built an m5x turbo e30.

[ACJJ619]

Sweet, I'll have a chat to them.

[DanThe]

Any plug and play conversion parts you want just send me a pm

[ACJJ619]

Where abouts are you? I'd imagine I ought to go local to save on delivery costs.

[TheMeathead]

I would recommend Dan 100% is a top block and his work is second to none. Tbh with you its not a hard conversion to do yourself if you have the time and some mechanical knowledge.

[heathy325]

Dan's stuff is great quality even dose the m50 manifold remap and will delete the ews system

[ACJJ619]

Dan seems to be getting some good reviews then! Can he do a full swap like I'm after?

[Muzz2676]

Dan seems to be getting some good reviews then! Can he do a full swap like I'm after?

Ask him.........

[JF008]

rawmotorsport in Southampton, that's where I would take mine, they have a good reputation and are all over PBMW magasine with their builds, you might end up with a v8 mind you . I would go for a 2.8 while you are there otherwise you will regret spending all that money on a lesser engine. 190 to 240 bhp is feck all to handle, get the suspension and brakes right. Have fun!


JF

[ACJJ619]

I'll give them a ring tomorrow, thanks.

[ACJJ619]

Gave RawMotorsport a bell. Nice chap but a little pricey and couldn't do it any time soon.

I had another lengthy chat with the guys at JapAndGerman and mentioned how the general consensus was that £1600 was too cheap for an engine swap and there must be a catch (I worded it more kindly though). He's reassured me what I already had the impression of - they're a genuine bunch of enthusiasts who take pride in their work and don't cut corners or bodge things. Their cheap price is simply due to low labour rates - less than £30 per hour. He admitted the initial £1600 was a little optimistic and based on the simpler earlier discussions involving a 318is swap, so he expects it to be nearer £2000 total for the M52 swap.

The 'vibes' I've got from them over the phone and online are really positive so I'm confident in using them. The only issue is distance - they're 200 miles away. If anyone knows anyone nearby who can do the same job, please let me know. That job being - pop an M52 in my 318i with parts sourced entirely by themselves, ready to be driven away in a couple of weeks with everything I need installed.

[JF008]

Keep in mind that starting with a 318i you will need/should use the bigger struts, suspension and brakes and exhaust.... An e46 steering rack would help while you are at it and the battery could do with going in the boot. Its a fair chunk of cash to source all that, freshen up all the gaskets, water pump etc. plus the odd part and pay for the labor on top.

I had my m50 swap done on an open budget and it cost me more than buying a much faster car and am still fixing stuff that was not done by the book/oem. The e30 is addictive, be careful, its a slippery slope! Money should not be an issue if you want a modified car in my experience. Make sure you have a complete list of what you want and will get done done for the agreed price so they don't come back and say it is more work than they thought and have an agreed time frame.

How much did Raw Motorsport quote you?


JF

[ACJJ619]

Thanks for the advice. They didn't give a definitive quote but they did say it would easily surpass £2000.