Treating myself - E38 750iL

[handpaper]

eBay, £963, no MoT since March 2014, no tax since October 2013.
Some damage.
Collected Saturday :


Staggered Style 32's, 18" :



Interior quite good, could do with a leather restore :



Two phones is just too cool



Is there an echo in here?



The Damage - apparently an artic backed into it




MoT failed on ARB drop link boots, track rod end and some brake and hydraulic lines, about £80 worth. Sorting next week.
May have found a door, need to check colours.

EDC works, SLS works, goes like nothing this big has any right to, drinks like Oliver Reed at the end of a dry January!

Anyone LPG'd one of these? Brian?

[Nobby_N]

Bargain Epicness, just as the price of fuel starts to rise again, Two phones

[Brianmoooore]

Anyone LPG'd one of these? Brian?

That's some lump of iron!
No experience of the M73 and LPG, but should be straightforward enough. You'd probably have to treat it as two straight 6 engines, each with their own set up - two reducers, two ECUs , etc.
Hardest job will be finding homes for the bits under the bonnet and keeping the required clearances on the exhaust.

[handpaper]

I'm fairly sure a Gen II system (or 2!) with Lambda emulator would work, but I'd prefer a multipoint system - no loss of power, better economy, smoother running and the reducers are much smaller.
Is there something out there that will drive LPG injectors from the petrol injector signals?

[DanThe]

Thats how they work, from the injector signal. Some basic info here - http://www.go-lpg.co.uk/BMWV12.html

Take no notice of the prices though

[DanThe]

Where is the engine bay pic?!!

[bab-91]

The two phones excite me!

[pacerpete]

I do like these but what sad c000nt thought Hush Puppy grey leatherz was a good look

[handpaper]

Thats how they work, from the injector signal. Some basic info here - http://www.go-lpg.co.uk/BMWV12.html

Take no notice of the prices though

I saw that page, it's one of the very few search results for "BMW V12 lpg"...
Very basic info - here's what we can do, using these bits. Suppose they don't want to give away too much.

The manuals from Stag were more helpful, they show injector in, out etc. Not sure how two systems are supposed to run in tandem, there doesn't seem to be any provision for multiple boxes to talk to each other.
Looking at the price of bits, a single(OK, double) point mixer system would be a fraction of the price of a multipoint, and that's before I get into the amount of loom-butchering required.
Can't just cut up the injector bit either, the loom looks to be one-piece!

Where is the engine bay pic?!!

OK, I admit that the first thing I did on viewing the car was to open the bonnet (need to check fluids etc., very important), but we're all adults here, we know what an M73 looks like, we've seen one before.

OK, they're still awesome.
I'll post one tomorrow

[handpaper]

I do like these but what sad c000nt thought Hush Puppy grey leatherz was a good look

Quite like it myself; cream would be a bit bling, black would make it feel like a cave in there and tan only suits Alfas. It'll get a little darker when it's restored, hopefully not too much.

[capri_rob]

Just hope the fuel tanks not rotten - see the other recent E38 thread of woe !

Great buy anyway

[Brianmoooore]

Just hope the fuel tanks not rotten - see the other recent E38 thread of woe !

Run it on LPG, and you can get away with a small bespoke petrol tank.

Loom mods. are daunting the first time you do it, but it's simple enough if you go at it logically.
LPG ECU basically takes the petrol injector pulse and multiplies it by a (variable) ratio to provide a pulse for the gas injectors.

[Blitz]

I do like these but what sad c000nt thought Hush Puppy grey leatherz was a good look

Quite like it myself; cream would be a bit bling, black would make it feel like a cave in there and tan only suits Alfas. It'll get a little darker when it's restored, hopefully not too much.

Grey is nasty. Beige is much more prefereble.

[bss325i]

What miser specced that when new?!

No rear audio controls, no blinds, no double glazing, no picnic tables and grim grey leather.

They are great bus's though, I like them with champagne leather!

[alpina123]

They normally have a separate head unit in the rear armrest and controls to move the n/s front seat

[DanThe]

The manuals from Stag were more helpful, they show injector in, out etc. Not sure how two systems are supposed to run in tandem, there doesn't seem to be any provision for multiple boxes to talk to each other.
Looking at the price of bits, a single(OK, double) point mixer system would be a fraction of the price of a multipoint, and that's before I get into the amount of loom-butchering required.
Can't just cut up the injector bit either, the loom looks to be one-piece!

As its controlled by two ECU's I expect an LPG controller connected to each would work fine, they wouldnt need to talk to each other as the engine ECU's take care of that, the stag system I fitted to mine had plugs and sockets to plug into the injectors, although I cut them out and soldered the wires to make it neater/more compact.

Check out LPGshop for the best prices

[DanThe]

Have you seen this for the stag - http://www.ac.com.pl/public/pubonline/c ... _8_7EN.pdf

Very easy to use/map system, if your using two controllers you will have to have two laptops mapping both at the same time, good job you have lots of seating room

[handpaper]

Tank was a worry, but it seems OK. Interestingly, despite being mild steel, they don't appear to rot much. The big killer is metal fatigue and cracking, particularly at the top of the 'hump', maybe a 95 litre tank needed better support?

Depending on the cooling system, it might be possible to dump petrol completely; stick two small(ish) toroids where the tank was and another in the boot. 200 litre capacity, 700 mile range, anyone?

Brian, if I do go with multipoint I'll make up a little subloom (or two) so that the injectors can either be connected via the LPG ECU or directly to the DME. Much neater, and easy to revert to (nearly) OE.

bss325i - As far as I know it's slightly upspec from a standard 750iL. The windows are double-glazed, and the rears do have blinds. The rear screen blind is electric.
Seats are Contour, with everything except the Active Seat system that massages your bum. I must say, I don't really mind not having that

Picnic tables?

[Andyboy]

E38 tanks rot badly all around the seams and where the filler neck fits.The rust starts in the seams and rots underneath the black paint coating. They also fracture just under where the fuel pump mounting plastic are. It's a rubbish design and puzzling when E34, E36 and E39 tanks were plastic.

[handpaper]

Cheers Dan, very helpful. I'd seen lpgshop earlier but couldn't work out what I wanted.
Looks like a pair of Stag 300-6 ISA 2 ECUs would do the job.
Unfortunately, they're £190 each, so that's £380 - plus tank, multivalve, reducer, injectors, pipes.
This is starting to look expensive..
ECUs £380
12 injectors @ £20 = £240
Reducer(s) £70 - 120
Tank (450x860, 120l) £220
Multivalve (8mm outlet) £36
High pressure pipe £25
Water hose £5
Low pressure gas pipe £10

Total c.£1000

And then I've got to fit it!

Assuming 20mpg on petrol and 18 on gas, and doing 6,000 miles a year, this would take 2 years to pay for itself.
Might look again at 2 single-point systems...

[handpaper]

Cheers Andy - will have a good look at those areas whilst I'm under the car, messing with Kunifer

[DanThe]

£1000 is only ten tanks of petrol, thats how I look at it, but like you say, you need to be doing miles to warrant it. Ive done 30k odd miles on LPG in my 540 and its saved me the best part of £5,000 in fuel, cost me £600 all in for the conversion, all parts new, you can save a packet by using a second hand tank.

Get the part numbers and look on allegro.pl you will be able to knock several hundred pounds off the UK prices

[Brianmoooore]

This guy: listard-jp2 (ebay) is at Thatcham, and is a good source of second hand LPG components. He sells off systems that have been removed from uninsured cars seized by the police and sent to the crusher, although he doesn't seem to have had much for sale lately.

[bss325i]

My bad I must be going blind! Just clocked the double glazing and blinds.

[handpaper]

£1000 is only ten tanks of petrol, thats how I look at it, but like you say, you need to be doing miles to warrant it. Ive done 30k odd miles on LPG in my 540 and its saved me the best part of £5,000 in fuel, cost me £600 all in for the conversion, all parts new, you can save a packet by using a second hand tank.

Get the part numbers and look on allegro.pl you will be able to knock several hundred pounds off the UK prices

Stag 300-6 ISA2 £125 + postage on allegro.pl
Any experience ordering from there?

Slightly O/T, Dan & Brian, I think an explicit LPG section somewhere on the forum would be useful, perhaps as a sub in Technical Help. An expanded wiki section would be very useful, too.

[DanThe]

Yes no problems at all, you would get a better price buying a kit, controller/reducer/injectors, they only charged me £10 to post it too

[ross_jsy]

I need a turd with double glazing. Epic chariot

[Jesus325iTouring]

I need a turd with double glazing. Epic chariot

You need a turd with shooter proof glass

[handpaper]

I need a turd with double glazing. Epic chariot

You need a turd with shooter proof glass

Ah, that's the 750iLP
Glazing here:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=51&fg=05

[S38B38]

E38 M73 is a great car,,, massive grunt and stunning power deliverty

love the V12

[ImysE30]

Very nice, I was looking at the V12 but went M52 instead, petrol costs

I've managed to fix the fuel leak on my tank, took it out and sealed it all up.

Nice buy

[handpaper]

Nearly ready for re-MoT; the last brake/hydraulic lines are going in tomorrow, when it's supposed to be dry. While there wasn't much corrosion overall, pretty much every pipe outside the engine bay was affected, so I'm replacing the lot.
14 pipes, 25m of Kunifer and 28 union bolts in all. My hands hurt, I need a better flare tool
A few unions had to be re-used. It seems BMW didn't want people accidentally mixing up the left and right rear brakes (would probably send the ABS/DSC insane), so the pipes for the N/S/R brake have M12 unions, everything else on the car is M10.

The fuel tank has been heavily undersealed; there's no 'crackling' sound when pressing on the usual problem areas, so it looks like it's been done as a preventative rather that as a cover-up. Quite a relief there.

Under the N/S airbox (removed for access to hydraulic lines) was a handful of mouse droppings. Hopefully the little bugger has vacated the car now it's in use. I haven't seen any evidence of gnawing on wires or pipes, but I might stuff the cat in there for a while, just to be safe

[Jesus325iTouring]

I need a turd with double glazing. Epic chariot

You need a turd with shooter proof glass

Ah, that's the 750iLP
Glazing here:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=51&fg=05

Those prices

Good luck with MOT

[Brianmoooore]

A few unions had to be re-used. It seems BMW didn't want people accidentally mixing up the left and right rear brakes (would probably send the ABS/DSC insane), so the pipes for the N/S/R brake have M12 unions, everything else on the car is M10.

Now that you've mentioned it, it's reminded me that I came across the same thing when I replaced the brake lines on my E39. Used the same solution as well.