Looking for someone to do engine swap - m20 in to 316i

Post Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:09 am

HI

I'm looking to put a 325i engine from pre face lift 325i in to a face lift 316i

I have bought the engine gearbox loom ecu and exhaust system.

Looking for someone around manchestr / Lancashire who can do the engine swap.
If someone can do it please PM me with quotes, timescale etc

Thanks

Post Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:40 am

shaz from just e30's very clean work

Post Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:41 pm

lowdub wrote:shaz from just e30's very clean work

have you got a contact number for him ?

thanks

Post Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:22 pm

If it's an early engine then you want them to put the later M1.3 management on the lump while they fit it rather than struggle on with the M1.1

Post Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:47 pm

Bss325i Munich Legends Senior Technician / BMW Senior Technician

Post Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:51 pm

All these people that are being recommend are around London.

Post Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:48 pm

HairyScreech wrote:If it's an early engine then you want them to put the later M1.3 management on the lump while they fit it rather than struggle on with the M1.1

Yes I have read this bit on wiki

What is the problem.with keeping the original ecu? Rough running noisy ?

Post Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:49 pm

Blitz wrote:All these people that are being recommend are around London.

Ideally in manchester or Lancashire

Post Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:40 pm

si911t wrote:
HairyScreech wrote:If it's an early engine then you want them to put the later M1.3 management on the lump while they fit it rather than struggle on with the M1.1
Yes I have read this bit on wiki

What is the problem.with keeping the original ecu? Rough running noisy ?

It's just a bit pants, known for blowing idle circuits, being hard to tune/diagnose and not being very sophisticated.
Parts are also harder to come by.

The early high comp engine on later management is the best OEM combination.

No point doing equal work to fit an inferior set up, (think there is C101 differences pre/post face lift as well).

Try Danthe maybe, He is further north although normally takes on M5x swaps.

Post Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:07 pm

Im 2 mins from Junction 12 M6 and can fit an M20 along with any other upgrades you require

I probably have all the components you need to convert an early engine to the late Moronic management too

Post Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:21 pm

HairyScreech wrote:
si911t wrote:
HairyScreech wrote:If it's an early engine then you want them to put the later M1.3 management on the lump while they fit it rather than struggle on with the M1.1
Yes I have read this bit on wiki

What is the problem.with keeping the original ecu? Rough running noisy ?
It's just a bit pants, known for blowing idle circuits, being hard to tune/diagnose and not being very sophisticated.
Parts are also harder to come by.

The early high comp engine on later management is the best OEM combination.

No point doing equal work to fit an inferior set up, (think there is C101 differences pre/post face lift as well).

Try Danthe maybe, He is further north although normally takes on M5x swaps.

nice one pal .. just pmd dantheman

hopefully we can get it done price dependant as someone with his reputation and ability isn't going to be cheap and i don't think me asking ' whats best price' is going to work either

Post Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:24 pm

What are the main differences between Bosch Motronic 1.1 and 1.3 besides their names

?

Post Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:44 pm

Whats best price = lots of none answered phone calls.

Post Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:20 pm

pony wrote:What are the main differences between Bosch Motronic 1.1 and 1.3 besides their names ?

1.1 is basically the original Motronic or DME system from 1979. It has a peg on the flywheel that gives a signal to two sensors, one for TDC position and another for idle speed. Very early ones have the fuel pump trigger switch in the air flow meter so that as soon as the engine cranks and the draws air in, it open the air mass meter flap and activates the pump. It wasn't very good so they dropped it and replaced it with a fuel pump relay.

1.3 has just one sensor for both TDC and speed on the crank pulley so it's simpler. The ECU is simpler and more reliable and the system accepts a lambda probe for a catalyst. All the parts are different on 1.3 including the injectors and nothing interchanges. It's a much better system all round.

Post Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:28 pm

You also get better resolution with Motronic 1.3 - more memory mapping points, which gives a generally smoother, more refined feel to the throttle response. Plus, they are easier to get upgrade chips for.

Post Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:51 pm

Speedtouch wrote: Plus, they are easier to get upgrade chips for.

Anyone here do good chips at truly amazing prices....?

Post Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:19 pm

I thought it was 16*16 on the part throttle map and cold/wot can be extended easily.......

Post Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:23 pm

So in summary Bosch Motronic 1.3 v 1.1 won't make your car any faster but just stores a few more fault codes and has better diagnostic capabilities (not that E30 mechanics plug computers into E30s) these days !

Think I'll keep Motronic 1.1 for originality purposes

Post Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:31 pm

No, there are more mapping points available, hence you get a more refined set of maps for ignition timing and fuelling.

But yes, M1.3 also has fault code storing capability, sadly only fitted to the US models ('stomp' test). The Euro spec models didn't get the EML light in the dashboard for some odd reason.

However, nowt wrong with M1.1 if it's in good working order (it tends to give a more 'raw' feel to the overall driving experience), and I can supply a chip for these if anyone's interested...

Post Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:35 pm

How much bhp can I get with your chip to Tech1 Sport ?
If I got it I would dyno it after !

Post Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:45 pm

So what is the matrix table count for 1.1 and 1.3?

Post Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:30 pm

pony wrote:How much bhp can I get with your chip to Tech1 Sport ?
If I got it I would dyno it after !

Typical gains are between 8-10bhp with a healthy engine, plus a raised (6500rpm) rev limit.

Post Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:47 pm

Speedtouch wrote:
pony wrote:How much bhp can I get with your chip to Tech1 Sport ?
If I got it I would dyno it after !
Typical gains are between 8-10bhp with a healthy engine, plus a raised (6500rpm) rev limit.

Mine produced 165bhp with broken centre box and V Power
And now 162bhp with a New Scorpion exhaust so presumably that's counts as "healthy"

? 172k mileage 12 owners

Post Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:57 pm

pony wrote:
Speedtouch wrote:
pony wrote:How much bhp can I get with your chip to Tech1 Sport ?
If I got it I would dyno it after !
Typical gains are between 8-10bhp with a healthy engine, plus a raised (6500rpm) rev limit.
Mine produced 165bhp with broken centre box and V Power
And now 162bhp with a New Scorpion exhaust so presumably that's counts as "healthy" ? 172k mileage 12 owners

your car is foooked, engine must of come from a drifter oppsss mine put out 171bhp standard car with no mods and used oil from a ford transit eclair.

Post Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:58 pm

You should see Kos drifting in my Sport at Ace ! He is an animal !

Post Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:08 pm

In a nutshell, the 1.1 system is not catalyst prepped and 1.3 is - the loom on 1.3 had a plug for the lambda priobe and you can bolt a catalyst and lambda probe to thje car and it will work straight away.
1.3 runs leaner and also has more retarded ignition to give a nice hot 'burn' for the catalyst to get up to temp quickly and stay there. The 1.1 equipped cars feel (and are) more powerful because they have more fuel, more advanced igntion timing and a higher compression.
BMW quote the same power figures for both engines, but no way are they the same.

Post Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:12 pm

Andyboy wrote: The 1.1 equipped cars feel (and are) more powerful because they have more fuel, more advanced igntion timing and a higher compression.
BMW quote the same power figures for both engines, but no way are they the same.

That's a very interesting point ! Is there much evidence to back up this claim ?

As far as I know BMW quote tech 1 sports 171bhp and tech 2 sports 170bhp to best of my knowledge.

Mine didn't make 171bhp !
Interestingly at dyno day Barry's made 177bhp with a few mods and another tech 2 sport with chip and scorpion made 174bhp

Post Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:07 pm

Andyboy wrote:In a nutshell, the 1.1 system is not catalyst prepped and 1.3 is - the loom on 1.3 had a plug for the lambda priobe and you can bolt a catalyst and lambda probe to thje car and it will work straight away.
1.3 runs leaner and also has more retarded ignition to give a nice hot 'burn' for the catalyst to get up to temp quickly and stay there. The 1.1 equipped cars feel (and are) more powerful because they have more fuel, more advanced igntion timing and a higher compression.
BMW quote the same power figures for both engines, but no way are they the same.

There are exceptions to this Andy, and its the E30 M3 which is on 1.1 and has lamda and many other more advanced features than the M20 1.3.

Post Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:30 pm

im 50 mile from manchester, but im in the area often with my truck

Post Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:41 pm

Speedtouch wrote:
pony wrote:How much bhp can I get with your chip to Tech1 Sport ?
If I got it I would dyno it after !
Typical gains are between 8-10bhp with a healthy engine, plus a raised (6500rpm) rev limit.

I had speed touch mild chip fitted in to my tec 2 sport and 100% lifted rev limiter .
Just the noise of that extra 300-400 rpm makes it worthwhile